12 Replies Latest reply on Jul 3, 2013 10:21 PM by Steven L. Gotz

    Up Scaling

    papaf2_323 Level 1

      In the past I have rendered out my animated sequences from 3ds max to1280x720, and then compiled and rendered the final video in my editing program as 1920x1080 WMV Video, and it seems to be a better quality video. Is this something that is true or am I just kidding myself in believing it’s a better quality video? The problem I’m having is the 1280x720 images get compressed in the final video if I render the final video to a 1280x720 .wmv video, but if I render the final video to 1920x1080 wmv the quality seems to be much better. Am I just fooling myself?

        • 1. Re: Up Scaling
          Steven L. Gotz Level 5

          I would have to say yes. It is an illusion. But if you like the results it doesn't matter.

           

          Why are you exporting to WMV? Most everyone can play H.264 and it will generally result in a better looking video at the same bit rate.

           

          If you want to post an animated sequence we can all play around with it and see for ourselves, but if you want 1920X1080 you should be creating your sequences that size.

          • 2. Re: Up Scaling
            Jim_Simon Level 8

            I'd be inclined to go with observer/operator error on this one myself.  All else being equal, I can't see an upscaled image being better than the original.  So either all else is not equal, or the observation just isn't very good.

            • 3. Re: Up Scaling
              papaf2_323 Level 1

              Well the reason for the wmv is it seems to get the best quality for the file size and Windows Media Player can play it. As far as the up Scaling question, I’m not as knowledgeable in the Aspect Ratio and Pixel Power as I should be; I just pick it up as I go.  Tell me if my thought pattern is all messed up, but my thought was the 1280x720 images look nice individually, but when they go into a video the compression degrades the quality. So my thought was to up the resolution in the output and give more pixels to the quality of the video and the compression won’t affect the quality of the images as much. Basically if you have a 10% degradation on the final result then why not start off rendering the final video 10% to 15% larger. The concept is, render the sequential to a higher resolution and the compression will bring them back around the same quality as the original images. I could be completely wrong  with my idea, so I’m bringing it to the community with a much better understanding than I have on this subject.

              • 4. Re: Up Scaling
                Jim_Simon Level 8

                Well the reason for the wmv is it seems to get the best quality for the file size

                 

                That only strengthens my initial thought of observer error.  H.264 will be noticeably better than WMV at the same bitrates.  I'm honestly a little baffled how anyone could not notice that difference.

                 

                Your thought process is also in error about the upscaling.  Yes, any export you do is likely to cause some degree of degradation, but so does the upscale itself.  So you've actually increased the degradation by going down that route.

                 

                The better thought would be to create the original at 1080.  Those are genuine pixels, not the resampled, guessed at and interpolated pixels you get with upscaling.

                • 5. Re: Up Scaling
                  papaf2_323 Level 1

                  Jim, I wasn’t saying that the up scaling was improving the quality of the original image, I was saying I’m trying to maintain the quality of the original when it renders to a video file that will compress the quality. You might be correct in saying that it could be operator error, I don’t claim to know it all,  I’m just trying to get a good work flow to get the best result without creating an astronomical file size after it’s done

                  • 6. Re: Up Scaling
                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                    OK, that's easy.  Export to H.264 at the original size.

                    • 7. Re: Up Scaling
                      papaf2_323 Level 1

                      That sounds good, thank you. I'll look into that.

                      • 8. Re: Up Scaling
                        Biggles Lamb Level 3

                        Go with the advice from Jim and Steve

                         

                        Upscaling in Premiere is not the way to go, at best it will give watchable results but given the choice between an upscaled 720 video and the original 720 I'd rather watch the original 720

                         

                        Upscaling is best undertaken by either a plug-in such as Red Planet's Instant HD or better still in TMPG or avisynth/virtualdub but these still will not be perfect

                         

                        I happen to have Instant HD as it came with the bundle, used it on each setting on different 4x3 SD movies and the results are OK but a DVD of the same movies when played back by my upscaling Bluray player gave far better results

                         

                        Do you have a different export option in 3Ds you could use, WMV is not the best choice, if you can look for an lossless AVI and go with that, then see what it looks like on the PC.

                         

                        Also rather than use Media Player, download and install VLC, it is leap years better in quality

                         

                        Col

                        • 9. Re: Up Scaling
                          papaf2_323 Level 1

                          Just to clarify, everyone does know that I’m talking about compiling 720 rendered Sequential images from 3ds max in the video editing software not up scaling a 720 video to 1080, correct? I’m not rendering to the 720 video straight out of 3ds Max and then up scaling the 720 video to 1080.

                          • 10. Re: Up Scaling
                            Jim_Simon Level 8

                            I’m not rendering to the 720 video straight out of 3ds Max and then up scaling the 720 video to 1080.

                             

                            Your original post said you were.  So...now I'm confused.

                            • 11. Re: Up Scaling
                              papaf2_323 Level 1

                              In the past I have rendered out my animated sequences in 1280x720, and have rendered the final video in my editing program as 1920x1080, and it seems to be a better quality video.

                               

                              I did mention that in my original post. The part after this was asking if this was true. I render my animations to Sequencial Images at 1280x720 and Compile them and render them in my editing software.

                              • 12. Re: Up Scaling
                                Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                                I am still not sure I understand completely, but I am relatively certain that you should export at the same frame size and frame rate as what you are building in 3ds Max.

                                 

                                Or, perhaps you can down scale it is need be. But there will always be loss. Just increase the data rate to prevent too much loss and as Jim said, use H.264 for the cleanest files at a reasonable size.