22 Replies Latest reply: Jul 7, 2013 4:08 PM by A.T. Romano RSS

    Suggested parameters for varying video sizes in same project, same format

    stockdizzle66 Community Member

      Hi guys, I'd like to know how to start a project using two different video sizes from the same camera.  I've shot some in standard and some in widescreen, both MOD format.  I don't mind the black sides that appear when a standard is displayed in a widescreen window, so I'm shooting for that.  Specs below.

       

      Canon FS200

      MOD

      widescreen 856x480

      standard (??) 

      Premiere Elements 11.0

       

      I've had some killer help from AT Romano with this intial setup, and I'm moving forward with that initial setup we made.  You out there man?

       

      Also, (side topic, but related) I'd like to know if it is possible to add a layer over the black border sidebars that would be present for a standard video displayed in a widescreen box.  Is there a way to do this?  An image?  Can it be a custom size and drag/dropped where I wish?  Or would it require cropping out the center of the image, I.E. making a standard video-sized hole in an image that covers the full widescreen window, so as to not cover up when overlayed upon the standard sized video?  Or can I position two identical images, one on top of each of the black borders?

       

      Thanks in advance. 

        • 1. Re: Suggested parameters for varying video sizes in same project, same format
          A.T. Romano Community Member

          stockdizzle66

           

          Something for you to try on a mini test basis

           

          Premiere Elements project preset as before DV Widescreen

          Import your mod widescreen, adjust the pixel aspect ratio with Interpret Footage...scale away any traces of black borders.

           

          Import your .mod standard. Is that going to be 720 x 480 or 640 x 480 (the short version of the question is that 640 x 480 is the square pixel version of 720 x 480 (non square pixels).

           

          If you want to replace the black borders that you will see when viewing the .mod standard in the Edit Mode Monitor set for widescreen, you could experiment with

          Video 2. Place the .mod standard

          Video 1 Place the Background image that will fill the black borders.

           

          More later.

           

          ATR

          • 2. Re: Suggested parameters for varying video sizes in same project, same format
            stockdizzle66 Community Member

            I did as suggested.  The widescreen video displays fine, but now it is playing slower (audio is lowered/stretched and video appears slightly slower).  The standard vid seems to display with the right aspect ratio, but it is dropping frames.  I've tried interpreting footage as pixel ratio from file, as D1/DV NTC (0.9091), and without interpreting. 

             

            Regarding the standard size, I don't know how to find this.  Tried right clicking, viewing file info in VLC...how do you do this on a mac? 

             

            Thanks. 

            • 3. Re: Suggested parameters for varying video sizes in same project, same format
              A.T. Romano Community Member

              stockdizzle66

               

              Please check out the following for obtaining video properties when Mac computer is involved...

              http://mediainfo-mac.en.softonic.com/mac

              Since I do not have a Mac, I have not used it first hand.

               

              With the same project setting as before you should not be seeing any changes in mod widescreen display or playback. Is this a new clip or the same one as before? Did you apply any slow motion effects to the clips? In Premiere Elements you can create a slow motion effect using (a) Time Stretch or (b) with the Interpret Footage Frame Rate section. By any chance did you alter the frame rate in Interpret Footage while you were changing the Pixel Aspect Ratio/Conform To:?

               

              ATR

              • 4. Re: Suggested parameters for varying video sizes in same project, same format
                stockdizzle66 Community Member

                Here are both clips.  I thought it was easier to give you all the information via pics.  Screen Shot 2013-07-04 at 12.51.31 PM.pngScreen Shot 2013-07-04 at 12.51.44 PM.pngI have double checked and the frame rate selection is as specified.  The widescreen is still slowing down.  The standard is still dropping frames as well.  Both are at the same frame rate, 29.970.

                • 5. Re: Suggested parameters for varying video sizes in same project, same format
                  A.T. Romano Community Member

                  stockdizzle66

                   

                  I see no reason why cannot bring those files into the same NTSC DV Widescreen Premiere Elements project.

                   

                  Both come with MPEG2 video compression and the file extension of .mod. I am not sure that it will affect your workflow since both of the 4:3 and 16:9 are importing OK, but

                   

                  a. Before you import these files into Premiere Elements, just rename the file extension part of the file name to .mpg so that you have "Name.mpg" instead of "Name.mod". See if that makes any different in your workflow.

                   

                  Also please discuss with your consultant whether that Player will display widescreen video, that is, will it accept a directive from a 16:9 flag to display the video widescreen. With the mod widescreen we took the issue out by eliminating the need for 16:9 flag and consequently not giving the player the choice not to recognize it. If your Player will recognize it, I am wondering if we should leave the mod widescreen as 720 x 480 with the 16:9 flag instead of our maneuver of 856 x 480 square pixels  no 16:9 flag??

                   

                  Just thoughts for now. Also, please make sure that the Interpret Footage settings are OK for Frame Rate as well as Pixel Aspect Ratio.

                   

                  Thanks.

                   

                  ATR

                  • 6. Re: Suggested parameters for varying video sizes in same project, same format
                    stockdizzle66 Community Member

                    Renaming gives me this error.  All parameters are otherwise unchanged.  I have contacted my admin regarding the JW issue.  

                    Screen Shot 2013-07-04 at 6.01.01 PM.png

                    • 7. Re: Suggested parameters for varying video sizes in same project, same format
                      A.T. Romano Community Member

                      stockdizzle66

                       

                      Could you check your steps that resulted in the missing media thumbnail for the .mpg in Project Assets?

                       

                      Sequence should be:

                       

                      1. At the hard drive save location (using copy of file OK), rename just the file extension of the file so the file name is Name.mpg instead of Name.mod.

                       

                      2. Only then import that Name.mpg into a Premiere Elements 11 NSTC DV Widescreen project using the project's Add Media/Files and Folders to get the Name.mpg into Project Assets and from there to the Timeline Expert view.

                       

                      Thanks.

                       

                      ATR

                      • 8. Re: Suggested parameters for varying video sizes in same project, same format
                        stockdizzle66 Community Member

                        Yes, I have doublechecked and tried renaming, then reimporting.  It has a thumbnail now, and plays (did not last time), so there's progress, however it is still slowed down.  Plays fine in VLC.  What do you mean by "using copy of file"?  I was renaming the file in it's stored position, the one Elements will be using. 

                         

                         

                        ***EDIT**

                        I tried a different video that I previously had in Elements and it also played in slow motion this time.  That might help, hopefull a lot.  Current file:

                        Screen Shot 2013-07-04 at 6.43.43 PM.png

                        • 9. Re: Suggested parameters for varying video sizes in same project, same format
                          A.T. Romano Community Member

                          stockdizzle66

                           

                          Sometimes if you want to leave the original untouched, you can make a copy (right click the original, select Copy). Next do a paste at the same location or other. Then you could import the copy (renamed in this case) and leave the original as is.

                           

                          The rationale behind the suggestion was to see if the file extension for the file made any difference in the editing of that file on the Premiere Elements Timeline - .mod versus .mpg.

                           

                          Have you done computer maintenance and cleaning out the Premiere Elements preview files (Adobe Folder/Adobe Premiere Elements Previews Files Folder), conformed audio (Adobe Folder/Media Cache Files Folder cfa and pek files), and conformed video files (See Edit Menu/Preferences/Media and the Media Cache section there "clean button")?

                           

                          I assume that the computer is being automatically defragmented. You can run the system through the ccleaner (cleaner section for now; registry part later if necessary).

                          http://www.piriform.com/ccleaner

                           

                          Looking forward to your further results.

                           

                          Thanks.

                           

                          ATR

                          • 10. Re: Suggested parameters for varying video sizes in same project, same format
                            stockdizzle66 Community Member

                            Also (was about to reedit my last post as you posted yours), this playback--both the slowed on widescreen vids and the frame dropping on standard sized vids--is happening from the file preview window (pre-timeline, where you select your clip in-out etc).  What is that window called BTW, haha.  Sorry for all the questions. 

                             

                            Removed all files from Adobe<Elements<11.0 that were not from my first, and only video project.  Included were preview files.  Did not find media cache files folder anywhere (including systemwide).  Emptied media cache via Preferences<media<media cache<"clean". 

                             

                            Opened my first project.  Plays slow (but a bit faster than before) and is now dropping frames like the standard format vid was.   

                             

                            Will look for a mac cleaner and let you know. 

                            • 11. Re: Suggested parameters for varying video sizes in same project, same format
                              A.T. Romano Community Member

                              stockdizzle66

                               

                              Sorry, I keep forgeting that you are working from a Mac computer.

                               

                              The following at the ccleaner web site seems like it would target your computer operating system...

                              http://www.piriform.com/mac/ccleaner

                               

                              The feature with the Set In and Set Out points which can be used to trim the video is just called Preview Window. Most of the time, users add to the description "Preview Windows with the Set In and Set Out points" to get across the idea that he/she is not referring to the Edit Mode Monitor in the workspace.

                               

                              Do you have any video footage that is not .mod standard or .mod widescreen? If so, please give it a try to see if we can pin point the slow aspect of your workflow....video format versus computer versus other.

                               

                              Thanks.

                               

                              ATR

                              • 12. Re: Suggested parameters for varying video sizes in same project, same format
                                stockdizzle66 Community Member

                                I did a mac restart and that fixed it, but about 45min later a different audio file started slowing down.  Restarted and was fixed again.  What do you think? 

                                 

                                Also, a quick question:

                                how do I keep a clip from snapping to the beginning of the timeline?  I want to trim from left to right and keep the blank space between the start and trim point open. 

                                 

                                Thanks.

                                • 13. Re: Suggested parameters for varying video sizes in same project, same format
                                  the_wine_snob Community Member

                                  Snapping is a function that can be toggeled ON/OFF. On a PC, it is via the S key, and I think it's the same with a Mac.

                                   

                                  As Snap is often very useful, I always remember to turn it back ON, when I am done with nudging, etc.

                                   

                                  Good luck,

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                  • 14. Re: Suggested parameters for varying video sizes in same project, same format
                                    A.T. Romano Community Member

                                    stockdizzle66

                                     

                                    Have we talked about how much RAM you have installed on your Mac computer?

                                     

                                    What are the properties of these audio files...duration, file extension, audio compression, channels, etc? Can you post a MediaInfo Mac readout for one of them that is part of the typical slow down of the workflow issue?

                                     

                                    How are you doing your clip trimming...

                                    a. Double clicking the file in Project Assets to open the Preview Window with its Set In and Set Out point

                                     

                                    b. Then trimming in the Preview Window (blue head/red stem indicator to start of trim, click Set In; indicator to end of trim, click Set Out)

                                     

                                    c. Then dragging from the Preview Window to the Timeline. That should allow you to place the trim wherever you want.

                                     

                                    I suspect that you are opening the Preview Window by double clicking the file on the Timeline rather than in Project Assets.

                                     

                                    Please give my suggestion a try to see if that works for you.

                                     

                                    Thanks.

                                     

                                    ATR

                                    • 15. Re: Suggested parameters for varying video sizes in same project, same format
                                      A.T. Romano Community Member

                                      stockdizzle66

                                       

                                      I believe the Timeline snap feature to be a non issue in your case. But let us see. I have tried it each way. And, in the trimming drill, I do not see it factoring into your question.

                                       

                                      With regard to your question specific to the trimming of the content, I think that the movement (whether called it) is a function of how you are doing the trimming, that is, from the Project Assets double click of the file there to open the Preview Window versus from the double click of the file on the Timeline to open the Preview Window. Not the on/off of the snap feature accessed by right clicking in the Timeline.

                                       

                                      You have complete control of the placement of the trim when you double click the file in Project Media to open the Preview Window with its Set In and Set Out points.

                                       

                                      See if any of the information in my blog post which took in the Preview Window is of any help to supplement what I suggest above.

                                      http://www.atr935.blogspot.com/2013/06/pe11-project-assets-organization-for.html

                                       

                                      Especially the part about getting the Project Assets file back to its original (if you want to) after you have gotten all the trims that you want from it.

                                       

                                      Thanks.

                                       

                                      ATR

                                      • 16. Re: Suggested parameters for varying video sizes in same project, same format
                                        stockdizzle66 Community Member

                                        I have 8GB installed.  Here is a picture of the audio file, although in regards to it being 'typical' well, I don't know if anything is typical yet.  It is dropping frames with the widescreen imports as well.  Maybe it's my graphics card?  Screen Shot 2013-07-06 at 3.06.26 PM.pngScreen-Shot-2013-07-06-at-3.09.55-PM.jpgHere's the video file that's dropping frames.  Did a system restart and it's just as bad. Screen Shot 2013-07-06 at 3.30.41 PM.png

                                        • 18. Re: Suggested parameters for varying video sizes in same project, same format
                                          A.T. Romano Community Member

                                          stockdizzle66

                                           

                                          Just a quick question for now. Do you have any or many of the computer connections as USB 2.0 or 3.0, and are they connected direct to the USB port of the computer or to a USB multi port hub and then from USB hub to the computer?

                                           

                                          ATR

                                          • 19. Re: Suggested parameters for varying video sizes in same project, same format
                                            stockdizzle66 Community Member

                                            Everything except my printer (powered hub) is directly connected via USB.  The videos are on the internal drive, the same drive I run the OS and Elements off of.  Here's the USB specs; I think they are 2.0Screen Shot 2013-07-06 at 4.27.56 PM.png

                                            • 20. Re: Suggested parameters for varying video sizes in same project, same format
                                              A.T. Romano Community Member

                                              stockdizzle66

                                               

                                              I have been doing some Googling to see what information I could pick up on dropped frames. Have you seen the following?

                                              http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/104098-Why-does-your-system-drop-frames

                                               

                                              ATR

                                              • 21. Re: Suggested parameters for varying video sizes in same project, same format
                                                stockdizzle66 Community Member

                                                Thanks for the article--very informative.  and thanks for all the help, both you guys.

                                                 

                                                I've gone through the article steps and done the following, while possible:

                                                 

                                                - checked disk permissions--all good.

                                                - transferred files by elements to seperate internal drive (both audio and video)

                                                - closed all other software programs while running Elements

                                                - frequent system restarts

                                                - cooled enviroment, not hot.  checking fan output and it is coolish

                                                 

                                                I have also monitored RAM usage while programs are running, and although I cannot watch while elements is in playback (it stops when I switch apps) it does not use much RAM normally, as is the case with the other apps working behind the scenes.  8GB appears to be more than enough.  Seems to function normally, but very temperamental under these conditions.

                                                 

                                                I am a bit concerned.  I noticed immediate slowdown of playback while I had Logic Pro open, yet idle (both audio and video synced, but were slowed down).   Is this really what caused it?  This seems to be an adequate machine for this level of work, and I go back and forth between these programs often while working.  If I cannot do this I will be pretty bummed.  When using FCP I never had an issue at all with this, even with many apps open.  Is Elements a system hog? 

                                                 

                                                ***

                                                Another noob question:

                                                 

                                                I am getting some frustrating results while trimming clips (see pics).  I'm trying to trim off the video but keep it aligned with the audio.  I want the title to be displayed while the audio plays and then the video and audio come in together afterward.  When I trim the video off the left it snaps against the title (a good thing in this case) however, the audio becomes misaligned--sometimes it works, sometimes not.  Audio and video are not linked.  I do realize that somehow both clips are connected (or snapped together) at their tail ends.  Also, when it works the first time (if I trim and they stay aligned) if I try and trim off the video again from the left they always become out of line.  I am not trimming off more video than the length of the title region, so there is no reason for displacement from lack of timeline space.

                                                 

                                                Thanks.Screen Shot 2013-07-07 at 5.36.58 PM.png

                                                Screen Shot 2013-07-07 at 5.37.12 PM.png

                                                • 22. Re: Suggested parameters for varying video sizes in same project, same format
                                                  A.T. Romano Community Member

                                                  stockdizzle66

                                                   

                                                  Based on what you wrote

                                                  I want the title to be displayed while the audio plays and then the video and audio come in together afterward.

                                                  coupled with the fact that you are dealing with video and audio unlinked that you want to keep in sync....

                                                   

                                                  Please see if this is what you seek and if it works for you.

                                                   

                                                  Title at the beginning of the Timeline (Video 2) and given video on Video 1/audio on Audio 1 (at this point in sync) and assuming you do not want to Link Audio and Video....

                                                   

                                                  Take your mouse cursor and draw a rectangle around the video and audio to select both at the same time.

                                                   

                                                  When you do that you can take your mouse cursor and click drag anywhere in the selection to drag the video plus audio to the left to the position that you want the audio (not video plus audio) to start playing under the title.

                                                   

                                                  Deselect by clicking anywhere in a blank space in the Timeline area. Click on the video to select it. Move the mouse cursor to where you want to cut the video to get rid of its beginning. Use the Split Clip Tab of the Timeline Indicator to cut at that spot.

                                                   

                                                  Then right click the beginning trim that you just create and select Delete.

                                                   

                                                  That should work if I have interpret your details correctly.

                                                   

                                                  Or, if indicated along the workflow, use linking and unlinking the video and audio if you are having audio in sync problems (Click video, hold down Shift key, click audio...both are selected...click anywhere in the lightlight and select Link Audio and Video (or vice versa) depending on what you are doing.

                                                   

                                                  As for

                                                  I noticed immediate slowdown of playback while I had Logic Pro open, yet idle (both audio and video synced, but were slowed down)

                                                  Is this a consistent day to day work session to work session event? There may be some conflicts between the programs, competion for resources and other? But see if you can establish a one on one cause and effect for Logic Pro running and Premiere Elements Mac having it problems.

                                                   

                                                  More later.

                                                   

                                                  Thanks for the follow up.

                                                   

                                                  ATR