13 Replies Latest reply on Mar 24, 2015 11:56 AM by kpmgaither2

    Can Loudness Radar operate faster than real-time?

    revjake Level 1

      Apologies if this has been asked before - I couldn't find an answer with a search.

       

      Can Loudness Radar operate faster than real-time? In making sure my levels are broadcast-ready for a TV show, I'm having to basically play through the entire thing to get an overall level. Is there a way to have Loudness Radar go over it and give me an overall level without having to hit "play" and go away for a while? I'd love to be able to do it in Premiere, but I'm fine with exporting to Audition if that's what it takes.

        • 1. Re: Can Loudness Radar operate faster than real-time?
          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          I just searched in the CS5 user guide PDF, and do not find "Loudness Radar" mentioned

           

          Unless that is something added to CS6 or the Cloud (mentioning your version when you ask a question is a good idea) is that a 3rd party add-in?

           

          If it is a 3rd party add-in, have you asked the add-in vendor?

          • 2. Re: Can Loudness Radar operate faster than real-time?
            petergaraway Adobe Employee

            LoudnessRadar in Adobe Premiere Pro CC & Adobe Audition CC

             

            http://www.tcelectronic.com/adobe-loudnessradar/ 

             

             

            Peter Garaway

            Adobe

            Premiere Pro

            • 3. Re: Can Loudness Radar operate faster than real-time?
              shooternz Level 6

              Its realtime.

               

              Your idea to do it in Audition s a good one because thats the best place to fix it if required.

               

              As far as I know even your broadcasters QC will check it in realtime.

              All my facilties use realtime processes for this function.

              • 4. Re: Can Loudness Radar operate faster than real-time?
                Jim_Simon Level 8

                I kind of wish there was a 'scan' function for this as well.  Watching that radar for 90 minutes is tedious.

                • 5. Re: Can Loudness Radar operate faster than real-time?
                  upperpixel Level 1

                  There might be a funny solution to this ... just shuttle the playback with maximum fast forward during loudness metering.

                  As far as i tested it here in CC 2014 - it works!

                  • 6. Re: Can Loudness Radar operate faster than real-time?
                    Richard M Knight Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    The radar shows the average loudness over time, just press play, go and have lunch and see what it reads when you get back.

                    • 7. Re: Can Loudness Radar operate faster than real-time?
                      kpmgaither2

                      If I do that, how do I adjust it once the overall program loudness is complete?  If my network's QC requires the target to be -24 LKFS, and the overall program loudness is -23.1 LKFS according to Loudness Radar, is it as simple as lowering the master audio in my timeline by 0.9 db, or do I have to guess a number to lower it, replay the entire sequence, and then continue to guess-and-check until it's correct?

                       

                      I ask because I work with pre-edited, pre-mixed shows.  My job is to add add infomercial-style commercials to the pre-mixed/edited shows and then send them on for broadcast.  I do this for several networks on a weekly basis, so I don't have time to just press play with a guess-and-check workflow and still get all my content out on time.  I thought this loudness radar would analyze the audio and adjust it based on my chosen settings, but apparently this just monitors it and it is then up to me to figure out how to lower or raise it to pass QC once I'm done... is all this correct?

                       

                      Do you have any other ideas as to how I can accomplish my goal?  Luckily, I only have one network which requires me to adjust my loudness prior to delivering the content to FTP of via a drive.  The problem is they won't adjust it any further once they receive it, so if the loudness is off by too much, they just tell me it was rejected because "the overall loudness is -26 LKFS instead of -24," but I really have no idea what to change in order to make them happy since one unit of LKFS doesn't seem to equal one unit of dB.

                       

                      I'm sure all of this is very basic in audio terms, but I'm not an audio guy.  It's also a bit unnerving that all of the instructional videos I can find on this topic only tell you how to monitor the loudness using this plug-in, leaving out what to actually DO to conform your loudness levels once they've been analyzed. 

                       

                      Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

                      • 8. Re: Can Loudness Radar operate faster than real-time?
                        revjake Level 1

                        I've never had a problem with just dropping the master level (make sure that the Loudness Radar is set to post-fader, btw). So in your example, yes, I'd drop the master audio by 0.9db.

                         

                        Speaking of which, my new, faster method to handle loudness on longer program material is to export just the audio as a temporary .wav file somewhere, then load that file into Audition and use its loudness tool to find out the LKFS level. I then take whatever number I get, and adjust the master level in Premiere to make it whatever level the network/tv station/hard-of-hearing client requires. It's a heck of a lot faster, since Audition can analyze loudness faster than real time. On 30 second commercial spots, using the Loudness Radar in Premiere Pro is no big deal, but dealing with half-hour TV shows, using Audition on the .wav export is way faster.

                        • 9. Re: Can Loudness Radar operate faster than real-time?
                          Richard M Knight Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          Your right, the master fader 'db' does not exactly correspond to loudness but I find it is near enough to meet the loudness spec. Usually you get 1 db either way. Audition has the Radar effect and has more choices for loudness matching, it might be worth asking on their forum.

                          • 10. Re: Can Loudness Radar operate faster than real-time?
                            kpmgaither2 Level 1

                            How do you perform the analysis faster than real time in Audition?  I'm seeing the exact same thing I see in Premiere, which is that I can play the audio and watch the meter run in real time, but there's no "analyze" button or anything like that - at least that I can see.  All of the tutorials I can find on using this plug-in seem to assume you know Audition inside and out, which I don't.  I'm coming from a video editor's point of view, so perhaps it would be helpful if you walked me through it?

                            • 11. Re: Can Loudness Radar operate faster than real-time?
                              kpmgaither2 Level 1

                              One other thing I neglected to mention is that I'm dealing with multi-mono tracks.  When I'm encoding, I have to deliver either stereo on 4 discrete mono tracks, or 5.1 surround + Stereo 2.0 on 8 discrete mono tracks.  I don't know if that affects how I would use this loudness meter, but I thought it would be worth mentioning.

                              • 12. Re: Can Loudness Radar operate faster than real-time?
                                revjake Level 1

                                Sure. Here's what I do - first, I export an audio mixdown out of Premiere. Note that I'm not dealing with surround mixes (though hopefully we will be soon), so your mileage may vary. In my case, I'm just exporting to a 48khz, 32-bit .wav file that I put on my desktop.

                                 

                                I then fire up Audition and drag that file in. Once it's in the "File" panel, I drag it down into the "Match Volume" panel (open it up from the "Window" menu if you don't see it). Click the little magnifying glass thingie by "match volume." It'll give you your ITU loudness. Do the math and use it to adjust your master level in Premiere. I make the adjustment in Premiere Pro, close Audition without saving and delete the .wav file on my desktop.

                                 

                                If it's a finished mixdown and you just want to replace the audio in your Premiere project, you can even click the "match volume settings" in Audition, tell it how loud it should be, and it'll make a quieter (or louder, whatever) version of your .wav file with your desired loudness. Save it, pull it into your Premiere project, mute all your other audio tracks, you're good to go.

                                 

                                 

                                This might be interesting to you: Audition CC as a Loudness Correction Appliance

                                • 13. Re: Can Loudness Radar operate faster than real-time?
                                  kpmgaither2 Level 1

                                  Whew... that's a great resource, but it's pretty technical for me.  I'm going to do some testing with it though.  My only concern is maintain the SMPTE order of channel mapping.  Our sequences don't have "true" 5.1... they are technically sequences with 8 mono tracks, with each speaker's audio resting in one of the tracks.  If I can do a mixdown that preserves all of those discrete mono tracks, then I should be able to accomplish what I need to with this.

                                   

                                  Thank you!