30 Replies Latest reply: Jul 18, 2013 8:41 PM by Stan Jones RSS

    Video file size in Encore

    Tim Flippance Community Member

      I'm using Encore CS4.  I'm creating a project with several HD video files and a menu to select which video to watch.  The video files have already been transcoded from the original Pr Pro project and are in H.264.  In the Project tab of Encore the size of one of the videos is correctly listed as 3GB, but in the Timelines tab it says Encoded Size 1.58GB.  Why?  Does this mean it intends to downscale the video to a lower definition?

        • 1. Re: Video file size in Encore
          Alan Craven Community Member

          Your H.264 assets are presumably still HD -1920x1080, 1440x1080, or 1280x720?  If so, then Encore will have to transcode them to a DVD legal format, i.e. mpeg2 Standard Definition video.  That will create files of reduced size.

          • 2. Re: Video file size in Encore
            Tim Flippance Community Member

            But I don't want the files converted to Standard Definition, I want to keep them in 1440 x 1080.  I've got it set to Blu-ray image so it should remain in HD shouldn't it?

            • 3. Re: Video file size in Encore
              Alan Craven Community Member

              Ah, sorry I made the wrong assumption there!

               

              I have checked some old Encore projects of mine, and where the assets were imported in a BR legal format, they show as the same size on both tabs.

               

              Your H.264 assets are definitely a Blu-ray legal form, are they, because if not, Encore would transcode them again.

              • 4. Re: Video file size in Encore
                Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                Your H.264 assets are definitely a Blu-ray legal form, are they,

                Tim, to check this, look at the transcode status column for bluray in the project bin. It should show "do not transcode."

                 

                I have checked some old Encore projects of mine, and where the assets were imported in a BR legal format, they show as the same size on both tabs.

                That is valuable info, and suggests that there is a problem with the legality of the asset. But Encore does some odd things with bluray assets, so who knows.

                • 5. Re: Video file size in Encore
                  Tim Flippance Community Member

                  In the Transcode status column it says "Untranscoded".  This is ridiculous.  If H.264 is not legal then what is?  I can't believe it's not possible to produce HD video in Encore from imported assets.  Otherwise what possible use is Encore?

                  • 6. Re: Video file size in Encore
                    Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                    There is lots of H.264 that is not bluray legal. You don't say; did you use H.264 Bluray as the preset? (Rather than just plain H.264.) Did you change anything in the settings?

                     

                    Export a short bit as a test; import that and see if it matters.

                    • 7. Re: Video file size in Encore
                      Tim Flippance Community Member

                      No I used just H.264 as the preset.  But these same files in plain H.264 burn to Blu-ray disc perfectly well when not using Encore.

                      • 8. Re: Video file size in Encore
                        Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                        Some programs are not as insistent on Bluray spec. Generally, more stringent to spec, the more compatible the disks. But no guarantee either way.

                        • 9. Re: Video file size in Encore
                          Tim Flippance Community Member

                          OK.   But what I don't understand is why Encore, in transcoding my H.264 files to something which it is compatible with, reduces the file size to half size?  This must mean it's converting to some lower definition standard?

                          • 10. Re: Video file size in Encore
                            Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                            Most often it is just reducing the bitrate to what you have set in the transcode settings. But you want to avoid Encore re-transcoding if you have already transcoded to anything compressed. So I would go back to exporting from PR/AME as H.264 Bluray.

                            • 11. Re: Video file size in Encore
                              Tim Flippance Community Member

                              I'll do that

                              • 12. Re: Video file size in Encore
                                Tim Flippance Community Member

                                When encoding to H.264 Blu-ray in AME,  the default option in the Multiplexer tab is None.  Is this OK?   The default for Bitrate Encoding is VBR 1 pass.  Would VBR 2 pass be better?

                                • 13. Re: Video file size in Encore
                                  Alan Craven Community Member

                                  At least my second guess was on the ball!  Sorry about misleading you at first!

                                   

                                  My motto when having problems with a project is to always accept the defaults.

                                   

                                  VBR 2 pass is worthwhile when you are forced into a low bitrate due to the length of the asset, but otherwise with H.264, single pass gives excellent results, it is such an efficient codec. Also, as Stan says above, always avoid a double transcode.  that definitely leads to quality drop.

                                  • 14. Re: Video file size in Encore
                                    Tim Flippance Community Member

                                    What about VBR 2 pass in DVD?  Is the same frue for DVD transcoding?

                                    • 15. Re: Video file size in Encore
                                      Tim Flippance Community Member

                                      I fixed the file size problem by altering settings in Project Settings.  But imported assets which are already transcoded to H.264 Blu-ray in AME still show "Untranscoded" in the Project bin.  Why?

                                      • 16. Re: Video file size in Encore
                                        Alan Craven Community Member

                                        Are you sure that you are looking at the Blu-ray column.  It is usually the DVD columns that show in the default project window, and you have to scroll right to see the Blu-ray columns.

                                         

                                        For some reason, Encore still has all the data columns for DVD when you are in a Blu-ray project, and vice versa.

                                        • 17. Re: Video file size in Encore
                                          Tim Flippance Community Member

                                          Yes I was looking at the right column.  Both the DVD column and the Blu-ray column say Untranscoded.  I've just done a transcode of the final Encore project and it took 77 minutes to transcode and export 46 minutes of HC video, so I'm assuming it has done a lot of transcoding which it shouldn't have needed to do.  Am I right in thinking if the assets were legal then it would have done the whole process in just a few minutes?  What am I doing wrong?  Why does Encore re-transcode assets which are already transcoded to H.264 Blu-ray?

                                          • 18. Re: Video file size in Encore
                                            Alan Craven Community Member

                                            I've had the Encore wanting to transcode what I thought were Blu-ray legal assets in the past, but always when I thought I knew better and altered the default settings in the AME Blu-ray preset.

                                             

                                            If the assets are legal, then you can build image/folder/disk relatively quickly, and there will be no transcoding of the video.  Depending on your project settings the audio may have to be transcoded.

                                             

                                            Another shot in the dark - are you in PAL land?  If so, your only legal option for Blu-ray is 25i.  You can export 25p from Premiere, but Encore will not accept it without transcoding.

                                             

                                            I assume that you are exporting your Premiere timeline via Export>Media usiong AME, and the standard H.264 blu-ray preset.  Have you tried the mpeg2 blu-ray preset to see if that produces an Encore acceptable file?

                                            • 19. Re: Video file size in Encore
                                              Tim Flippance Community Member

                                              So many problems with Encore.  I gave up trying to find assets which Encore would accept without re-transcoding, and went back to the original Pro project and exported it to Encore.  Even so it was very hard trying to find a codec, bitrate, etc which Encore would accept,  but eventualy I managed to do a DVD version using PAL DV High quality 4Mb VBR 2 pass.     Now I'm trying to do the same thing with 1440 x 1080 PAL 50 H.264 Blu-ray.  But Encore refuses to deal with this format, and keeps resetting to 1280 x 720.  There's no way I can get Encore to accept 1440 x 1080 i 50 PAL H.264 Blu-ray.  Why not?  Alan yes Encore will accept MPEG-2 but I need to use H.264 because it gives better quality on some of the special effects sequences.

                                              • 20. Re: Video file size in Encore
                                                Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                                                Are you sure your project is set to PAL? (Sorry; had to ask!)

                                                 

                                                The size problems you are having are with timeline assets, not menus, right?

                                                • 21. Re: Video file size in Encore
                                                  Tim Flippance Community Member

                                                  Yes with timeline assets.  Yes I'm set to PAL.  In Export Settings I set it to 1440 x 1080 PAL H.264 Blu-ray over and over again, and when I come back later to check it it has reset to 1280 x 720

                                                  • 22. Re: Video file size in Encore
                                                    Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                                                    Can you post a screenshot where you are setting it to 1440x1080?

                                                    • 26. Re: Video file size in Encore
                                                      Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                                                      You are in the "Edit Quality Presets" window. FYI, in CS6 (probably in CS5 too), this is labeled as such at the top rather than "Export Settings." See a second issue after the screenshots.

                                                       

                                                      The issue is that this window defines a preset. It allows you to modify the basic settings, and then save them with your own name. BUT, the preset is not applied to your asset until you pick it from the "Transcode Settings" window.

                                                       

                                                      In the following image, the "Stan Custom" is a preset I made in the "Export Settings" [CS4] window (called "Edit Quality Presets" windows in CS6). In the4 drop down, you can see that "Automatic" is applied. I can change that by selecting the Custom option or any other option in this list.

                                                       

                                                      EN Transcode Settings.png

                                                      To check w hich option is applied, without going into this window, just look at the transcode setting in the project panel.

                                                       

                                                      EN Project Bin Transcode Settings.png

                                                       

                                                      Second issue: in your screenshot, the source size shows as 720X480. I don't think that is what you want. This means that the asset you are applying the setting to is not HD. Probably, you just picked that one to show the settings, but if this is the actual source file, that's a problem.

                                                      • 27. Re: Video file size in Encore
                                                        Tim Flippance Community Member

                                                        Thanks yes that was the answer to that Encore problem (me assuming "Export Settings" was for setting the export settings - how naiive.)

                                                        I have another problem now: I set it to Build the Blu-ray image, and it works away at it for 9 hours, then when it is 6 seconds from the finish of building the image it freezes, then over the next 2 hours the remaining time indicated in the window slowly creeps up to 1min 24 seconds, at which point I aborted the whole sad process.

                                                        • 28. Re: Video file size in Encore
                                                          Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                                                          me assuming "Export Settings" was for setting the export settings - how naiive.

                                                          Indeed. Adobe apparently decided you were on their wild goose chase when they renamed that window to a better name.

                                                           

                                                          I set it to Build the Blu-ray image, and it works away at it for 9 hours, then when it is 6 seconds from the finish of building the image it freezes, then over the next 2 hours the remaining time indicated in the window slowly creeps up to 1min 24 seconds, at which point I aborted the whole sad process.

                                                          Argh! Wouldn't you like to catch a break?

                                                           

                                                          In CS4 (I thnk), do-over bluray builds required deleting the authorscript files that are created as part of that process. In CS6, these files are deleted automatically.

                                                           

                                                          http://forums.adobe.com/thread/670174?tstart=0

                                                           

                                                          Sorry, don't remember what is above, but, if you haven't, separate the transcode step from the build by using "transcode now" before building. Most of the 9 hours is surely the timeline asset transcodes. Whether you did or not, check the transcode status; it may have completed and be okay.

                                                           

                                                          There are some processes (I don't think the build should be one of them, and yes, your project is probably messed up), that transfer from a  temporary directory. This can take a lot of time depending on your configuration and computer power. And CS4 was still a 32 bit app.

                                                           

                                                          All that said, I would probably start a new fresh Encore project (new name so nothing is carried over within Encore) and see that helps. If you files were finally transcoded and you believe them okay, I would import them "as timeline," and they should not require transcoding.

                                                          • 29. Re: Video file size in Encore
                                                            Tim Flippance Community Member

                                                            I started a new project and managed to get it to work correctly for H.264 Blu-ray image.  One thing is baffling me though:  This video when transcoded in AME produces a 4.57GB file.  The same video transcoded in Encore with a couple of chapter markers produces a 7.95GB file.  Why is the Encore version 1.7 times bigger?

                                                            • 30. Re: Video file size in Encore
                                                              Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                                                              The bitrates are different. If you select the exact same preset, then the preset vary between the two programs.