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It's NOT (absolutely NOT) foisted upon you without your permission.
Understand that there is a little box you simply click to uncheck and it neither downloads nor installs.
Now, before you go saying "I don't have time to uncheck a box"... you had time to log in, find the right forum and post a complaint to fellow users (we don't work for Adobe here in the forums... most of us anyway). That took a lot longer than unchecking a box.
Firstly, thanks for the response.
Secondly, I've had an account with Adobe for years. Not a new one.
Thirdly, nowhere in the download/install procedure did I see an option to NOT download the McAfee software. Granted I kinda zipped right through it the first time and there is a chance that I still missed it. I have seen that option in the past and definitely unchecked it, but I do not recall seeing that box this time. Hence my perturbation. If I am mistaken, my apologies. I went through the procedure a second time (and carefully read the installation instructions (in which there is no mention of McAfee)) up to the actual download.
Fourthly, I realize few users here are actually employees, but I do know that employees read the forums and will respond. I'm actually not looking for their response, since it's after the fact, but perhaps they'll see my complaint and decide to make the additional software download choice more prominent.
Again, thanks for the response.
Hmm, that is the shockwave player, not the flashplayer. I was prompted immediately after rebooting to install the new flashplayer from this address: https://get3.adobe.com/flashplayer/download/?installer=Flash_Player_11_for_Other_Browsers& os=Windows%207&browser_type=KHTML&browser_dist=Chrome&a=McAfee_Security_Scan_Plus_Chrome_B rowser&dualoffer=false&type=au&browser_vers=27.0.1453.116. I did not get that particular prompt box. (I see now that the McAfee software is included in the URL, but it's so long that I couldn't see that as part of the address.) No where else during that procedure is there ANY reference to McAfee or any checkboxes offering me the choice of installing it or not. I cannot access again the original prompt to install flashplayer, so I cannot state that it wasn't an option there, but in the rest of the process, it is not an option. I still think they need to make that option more prominent.
Hmm, that is the shockwave player, not the flashplayer.
You are right; sorry for that!
But I am totally confused now; how did I get my Flash Player updated yesterday? I think I will revert my system to 11.7, then wait until the updater kicks in again.
And thank you for that link; that does indeed not give you any way to opt out!
Fine, I'm wrong. I'm blind and stupid, too. And a liar. *sigh*
That is not the link I was sent to when I got the notice from Adobe upon rebooting asking me to update my flashplayer software. I provided the link above. As I said earlier, there may well have been an option in that initial prompt, I cannot recreate it to check, so I could have overlooked the option, but nowhere else in the procedure did I have the option to opt out.
No, no, no, no...
This is the forum playing tricks on both of you. The link that you posted got broken up somehow (the forum does that!), and will lead to different locations depending on where you click on it.
When I click on the third line of the broken link, I actually get to the full link that will download the installer that includes McAfee (without any opt-out). Here is the screenshot
P.S. I am still waiting for my reinstalled 11.7 to update.
I get a redirect in Firefox or Safari Win 7 , 8 or Mac to the address in my screen shot. The only difference is that the Mac page has a trial of Lightroom instead of McAfee (which doesn't run on Mac).
I must say I totally agree with the original post. I can't think what Adobe are trying to achieve by this. Well, of course I can... make a little money on the side. But at the expense of irritating a lot of people in the process. Sure, put a banner for McAfee on the download page, or on the page that comes up after Flashplayer is installed. Even have it as an opt-in checkbox choice on the downloads page.
But, probably like everyone else, once or twice a year, I miss unchecking the darn box and have to abort the download. And deal with conflicts on colleagues PCs who've not noticed the checkbox. McAfee also "mysteriously" turned up on my partners laptop and I suspect this is where she got it from as she never purposefully downloaded it. Etc...
The standard defense is that people can opt out. Yeah, they can. And in an ideal world, when an "update now" dialog pops up on screen and you follow thru on that to update the software, you read and consider every word on every message on every page during the process, and never, never just click on the big shiny update now button. Right.
Having an additional download option on by default is simply because if it was off by default, there would be less downloads. Why? Because people who didn't notice the option would not end up installing it. But surely with something like this it should be an informed choice, a choice for the people who have read the page fully? Opt-out is used for stuff you want people to agree to, but think they wouldn't opt in given a clearer more considered choice, so you make up numbers with the ones who don't notice the opt-out.
Come on Adobe! You're better than this.
(If any staffers think this is an unreasonable comment, try putting another couple of questions on the poll on success page asking if people realised they'd installed McAfee and if they wanted it at all)
Well, this was an eye opener for me. I've been using and updating Flash Player since 1998, and this is the first time I've ever seen it install McAfee in an update without a opt out. Several years ago, working for Intuit, I was tasked with testing a number of anti-virus apps to see how they affected connectivity for online tax filing. I learned a lot about McAfee, Norton, Panda and AVG during that four months...
McAfee is harder than a virus to remove. You have to go in to the registry and manually delete keys and at least four separate reboots are required to get it to quit running at startup so you can finally delete the last of the folders that won't and don't delete during a Control Panel uninstall. It didn't play too well with otthers, constantly treating Norton like a virus.
Norton is almost as bad, but it fared much worse in the "intrusiveness" and "protecting you from yourself" categories. I will never have software that overrides my administrator status, and tells me I can't do something I know damn well I want or need to do. I also don't like it arbitrarily removing downloads that I know are safe. It did work with Panda and AVG installed alongside it, though.
Panda destroyed an OS when it was installed alongside McAfee, and I swore I'd never touch it on a system I owned.
AVG was the most user friendly, and woukd warn about multiple a/v on one system.
The one thing I found most important about my testing was tha you DON'T mix a/v apps under any circumstances.
For Adobe to "sneak" McAfee in like I saw here, can be a PC killer if someone has Kaspersky, MalwareBytes or Panda installed... TrendMicro too I think, but I can't say for sure.
I did the screenshot'd installon an old machine I'm getting ready to gut, so it didn't matter if it broke it. I'm reformatting the C drive and using it for file storage. But I'm sure someone would be understandably pissed if this took out their office computer and they lost a couple years worth of QuickBooks data.
(If any staffers think this is an unreasonable comment, try putting another couple of questions on the poll on success page asking if people realised they'd installed McAfee and if they wanted it at all)
I can tell you that most of the Adobe technical staff is also not happy about these bundled softwares. However, that policy is made somewhere else at Adobe, and these people do not hang around these forums.
The policy of pre-checked checkboxes will likely remain, but I am looking into the fact that some updates may (and do) come with bundled software where the user is not given any chance to opt out. It could be that this is unintentional, and therefore a bug.
I am still waiting for the 11.8 update on several computers, so I can document it, and enter it into the bugbase.
I'm not surprised the techs are not impressed. Marketing can't be delighted either. It's not exactly a mass-market crowd pleaser.
Please make like Belize and strive toward the absence of McAfee. Consider familiarity with McAfee. Done? It’s easy to see why familiarity breeds contempt, now, isn’t it? Contrarywise, consider the absence of McAfee. Alrighty? It’s hard to support the notion that absence makes the heart grow fonder, now, isn’t it? Now consider the evidence of intelligent life in the Universe. Ah, forget it. That’s just unBELIZEable.
Anyhow, I was prompted to update Adobe Flash Player this morning, in response to which, I deselected the default installation of whatever McAfee bicycle was being peddled today, and continued on with low expectations that were thoroughly met when the latest update for Adobe Flash Player failed to install. As luck would have it, thankfully, I just don’t care.
Hello everyone ...
First, I just want to let the staff at Adobe know I thoroughly appreciate your providing these programs for us to download and use at no cost. I understand the programs that use your code probably pay some royalty to you for the convenience. I am also OK with that.
Having said that, I have the same problem. It just happened for me.
Windows 7 Pro, etc, etc.
Went to the screen shown above (comment #6 by CF McBlob) to download and install Adobe Flash Player.
Then a file of this name downloads.
I actually copied the file from my Download folder into a new folder location for testing.
Then I execute this file. There is NO prompt to not select McAfee Security Scan Plus. NONE.
I already have McAfee SecurityCenter on my computer. The installation software for McAfee Security Scan Plus should find it and NOT install.
Secondly, when you run the above named file, it is PROMPTLY DELETED from the folder in which you placed it and from which you executed it. Why?
I did this two or three times just to make sure. I had the folder open and watched it disappear when the software was running.
To reiterate, the prompt to NOT install McAfee Security Scan Plus is totally non-existent.
This is on the Adobe site - and is an Adobe created file.
Adobe needs to make some changes.
Dear Adobe staffers,
You have known about this for months, but I am still receiving no opt-out for McAfee Security Scan Plus.
Mike M has pointed out that it can corrupt an OS in the presence of certain software. IMO, mandatory download of such a program constitutes malware. In my case, it is just very annoying, as I cannot use my machine with McAfee products on it and I have to uninstall McAfee Security Scan Plus via Windows: Control Panel: Programs: Programs and Features and use McAfee Consumer Product Removal Tool to complete the removal. Apart from greed, why would you want to annoy users?
I am prepared to accept that the lack of an opt-out may initially have been an oversight, but the continued distribution of malware by Adobe is inexcusable.
Please can we have an official response, pronto? Or do I have to write to the CEO or go to the media about this?
Malware, short for malicious software, is software used to disrupt computer operation, gather sensitive information, or gain access to private computer systems. It can appear in the form of code, scripts, active content, and other software. 'Malware' is a general term used to refer to a variety of forms of hostile or intrusive software.
McAfee is unwanted, and in some cases may cause problems, but it isn't, by definition, "malware".
Regarding the bundling:
1. It's not just Adobe that does this. More than a dozen major software companies "bundle" software with downloads and updates.
2. It's been a common practice for more than ten years and it isn't going to change or stop anytime soon.
3. This is a user-to-user forum, with just a few employees who participate on a limited basis only. NO Adobe management participates here or reads these forums.
Griping here (while providing an avenue to "vent") won't stop the bundling. - I've seen it too much for too long to say otherwise.
Boycotting Adobe won't stop the bundling.- I've seen it threatened here too much for too long to say otherwise.
Even threats of lawsuits won't stop the bundling.- I've seen it too much for too long to say otherwise.
Believe me, I've seen just about everything short of terrorism threatened over this and if ANYONE in management had the intention of ending it, they haven't shown it since 2003.
Thank you for your perspective on Adobe's commercial practices, Mike.
I'll stand by calling this particular mandatory bundling "malware". Of course, the McAfee software itself is clearly not intentional malware. What I should have emphasised was that the mandatory bundling:
- is intrusive and
- makes the otherwise well-intentioned McAfee software disruptive.
If I choose to download a McAfee product at my own risk and it causes unintended disruption, that is unfortunate. If I am constrained to download a McAfee product and it causes disruption that is unintended by either McAfee or Adobe but reasonably anticipatable in the light of the available information, I think it becomes malware.
Since the mandatory bundling is both intrusive and disrupts computer operation in the way that you yourself have written about and others here have experienced, I'd say that your own definition of malware is at least a partial fit:
"Malware, short for malicious software, is software used to disrupt computer operation, gather sensitive information, or gain access to private computer systems. It can appear in the form of code, scripts, active content, and other software. 'Malware' is a general term used to refer to a variety of forms of hostile or intrusive software."
Well said, Alan.
That being true, when I go buy groceries they don't put a bike in my bag before I ckeck out. They could, because I can always take it out of my bag before checking out, just a few seconds of my time, but they still don't do it. And do you know why? because it is impolite to sell you something you are not interested in, something you didn't even ask for. Because if they do this at the groceries next time they know I'll go to the next shop.
Adobe is being rude and impolite with its own users. Be them free or paying customers, they are still your customers and forcing something into them is not polite under any circumstance.
I, for one, am certain that I'll keep any Adobe product away from my computers. Strategies such as these bundles are only for losers, and that is how I'm going to treat them.
...they are still your customers and forcing something into them is not polite under any circumstance.
Without getting too political... ISN'T THAT like telling EVERY LAST PERSON IN AMERICA that "You're going to buy insurance (and only the insurance we approve of) or you'll pay a fine, but we'll call it a tax, so it's 'not really' a fine."
Seriously... As the sarge said in VietNam... "Is this the hill you want to die on?" Or is there one more important?
It's a piece of software. And there are ways around it:
(nothing in those but the plug-in)
Get over it. You're NOT losing income or property here. You need to pick your battles better... A LOT BETTER.
First of all, I really don't get this warlike analogies. What battle? why
do you assume I am willing to "die over this hill"? It's just software,
not war. I will not die and I'm not at risk of anything if I decide to
remove Adobe Flash Player from my system. Pull yourself together, I'm not
the one shouting, being jumpy or making up war analogies in here.
You may argue Adobe is not the only one doing it, I can accept that as an
argument. Or you can argue it is not so bad to you, that's ok too. You may
even go as far as to say Flash is the best thing or claim there is no
alternative to Flash or Adobe. We can discuss all that, but get this
branded deep in your brain, I don't have to get over anything because this
is not war and this is not a battle. I'm opting out of Adobe voluntarily
just like some people opt-out at meat eating, respecting those who choose
differently. I wish everyone would do the same.
I have my reasons and my reasons may not be good enough to you, just like
yours may not be good enough to me. And we could debate about pros and cons
but what I'm not going to take is this whole bunch of FUD 101 as an
opinionated argument. I wouldn't do it coming from a friend, imagine how
much I care when it comes from a total stranger.
Meanwhile, for you and any other Flash user or IT manager out there, here's
my workaround. A really easy one.
I have simply uninstalled the Adobe Flash and Shockwave Player & Plugin.
I did it on a test machine and Chrome Browser (with Pepper Flash bundled)
seems to be working like a charm on those sites still using Flash for
banners, movies and games. I think new versions of IE have also a bundled
flash player, but I don't care since no user here is using that. Users who
used to browse with FF will get used to Chrome in no time and FF+Adobe
Flash will be removed from the system. Gone for good.
And then I'm not at risk anymore of making a mistake while doing multiple
things at the same time and end up installing some undesired software in my
whole system. I'm safe from risky bundles I never asked for (and have
absolutely nothing to do with what I'm looking for) and the old flash-based
websites are still working fine in the user's browser.
That's how it should be and that's how I intend to do it. I'm not only
getting over it, I think I'm getting around it and passed it.
If it's worth getting your blood pressure to "stroke levels" over, then "have yourself a nut" if you think it's right. I gave you the links to avoid bundled software with the plug-in installers.
Now I can see how pointless is talking to you, but I'll answer anyway for the sake of the rest of the readers.
My blood pressure is very well, thank you. As I said before, I'm not the one shouting, look at the mirror if you hear someone doing so. I got well over it, around it and passed it. I'm only trying to manage the IT risks in my organization.
Yes, I'm pissed off because one of these risks was unnecessary and my provider chose to add it knowingly, just like I would be pissed if one of my employees would knowingly define a new and unnecessary process in our job routines that could very easily lead to problems (and yes, this problems lead me to loosing money). But I didn't shout and I didn't pick on you, it happened exactly the other way around, even though as my first answer (and every other one) was polite to you.
I do my job the best I can and my job is to make things smooth in my organization, not more complicated. If someone (provider or employee) includes a new and unnecessary risk it is my job to find a better solution, not simply resign and get over it because a total stranger told me so on the Internet.
And so it happens that the best solution to risk-free flash updates that I've found is by using the bundled flash player in Chrome. No Adobe solution is more simple and risk-free than this. Anything Adobe is willing to offer me (manually opt-out to a crap bundled software, bookmarked links, ...) is definitely way more risky and way worse than the Chrome solution. It is that simple.
I thank you for the links, but the default and common landing page for the Adobe Flash download should be bundle free, that is my only point here. It's not the *what* that matters most, it's the *how*. Anything else is beating around the bushes, because there is only 1 way to do things right. You can give me as many other links as you want, you may insist to death about the possibility of opting out prior to downloading, you can shout at me, you can picture me mouth-foaming and you can FUD and troll me all you want ... and you still won't see the point and you still won't be willing to respect my reasons, decisions or opinions.
What Adobe does is rude and impolite, but trolling is way worse. Don't you have anything better to do in your life than trolling people on an Adobe forum?
I've solved more problems here than you've ever seen...
If that's trolling, you should try it some time, instead of acting like the whole world owes you a free ride through life with your hand held every step. You're an adult, grow the f up and act like it.
Someone who creates a fictitious name in a forum or chat room for the sole purpose of harrassing others anonymously.
So, let's see... You use a pseudonym, have no picture, and ALL FIVE of your posts are in this thread, three of which are harrassment of me. THAT makes you a troll.
I use my real name and my own picture, and I've been here for just shy of a year HELPING people (11,081 posts, 5,780 points awarded by OTHER users for my help), and the biggy... moderators here will side with me and remove you.
Yes, I'm pretty sure they will side you. First of all because you are willing to jump to fight for them at any time of the day, every day of the week and, second of all, because the way I see Adobe you two have similar attitudes, rude and impolite by default so it makes sense them siding you. But making it a battle was your decision since your very first answer to me, not mine. I am pissed off at Adobe, not at you, it's you who wants to make it something personal. I'm pretty sure you are of great help here, I'm not doubting that, but that is no excuse to go around insulting and being pushy.
None of my answers have been a harassment to you, read up again and try filing a harassment case from that. My answer was to publish my opinion about the bundled software and I have not been pushy, jumpy or insulting you at any point except for the end, that I admit. And you took the slightest and first call naming from my side to make my answer removed, I bet you think that is a battle won but I'm not interested in these petty battles, you can keep them and win them all for all I care.
You, on the other hand, didn't use the word loser but you have been treating me like one from post 1 to post N. You have absolutely no idea who am I, what my experience or needs are nor what goes through my veins yet you insist on picturing me as your enemy. You don't like my opinion about Adobe? fine, but suck it up or debate politely, don't go about insulting and harassing those who think differently than you, it only shows your darkest nature.
My IP will be banned? try threatening someone else with that, IP bans are basically FUD for those who know what it means. My stay here is over, I agree to that because I have no interest in staying. I don't have a picture and this is a new account because my only intention was to publish my concerns about this strategy of software bundling and never come back, I'm not wasting time filling my profile here.
If I chose Pepper Flash over Adobe Flash it is because the updates (or the likely incidences after the updates) may take too much of my time. I'm cutting out every unnecessary expense and waste of time in my work processes. Both Adobe Flash and you are taking way too much of my time and I got much more important things to do, so bye and enjoy Adobe Flash and the forums.
Mike, you're coming across as extremely unhelpful.
We have every right to abhor Adobe's negative optioning with respect to McAfee Security Scan Plus (or any product) being installed along with an update to Adobe Flash Player. Regardless of whether there's a simple click to uncheck a box, and regardless of whether any laws have been broken, consumers should not have to be so careful when installing an update. At a minimum, Adobe could provide a final confirmation dialogue showing exactly what will happen next.
In my particular case, I unchecked the box, noticed out of the corner of my eye that something changed in the user agreement link to the right, re-checked the box to see what changed, UNCHECKED the box again, and guess what? I now have McAfee Security Scan Plus installed on my computer. I know how easy it is to uninstall it, and I did so immediately. The point is, there's a bug. And even if there wasn't a bug, Adobe should not use their regular patch updates to make money. Sure, put some advertising in there if you want; but don't require action on the consumer's part to NOT install something.
I have to agree. I just had Adobe tell me to update Flash player and it installed McAfee. I was NOT given an option not to do this. Uninstalling it is not a big deal, but it WAS annoying.
I have used Adobe products for years, the first one was Adobe PostScript. Back then there was no internet and you bought software in a store, or from a catalog. It was also a lot more expensive back then. I have also used Illustrator and others. So, I like Adobe and I am not new to Adobe.
Adobe has been pushing McAfee and other Products for years now, I know to uncheck the boxes when I go to their website. But this time I was given no option not to install it.
I am not posting this to get into a fight with anyone on the forum or to complain about Adobe, they are a good company. If I owned a products that updated several times per year and millions of people used, I would probably be looking for a way to monetize it too. So, I get that. I am not a communist.
But I wanted to make my feelings known because Adobe is going to end up ruining their good name with things like this, especially when it comes to anti-virus software. I have had some nasties on my system over the years and some of the worst viruses are so tricky, then can take several hours to get rid of. In order to try to avoid that, I use the best possible (in my opinion) anti-virus program available and it is not McAfee. Not that McAfee is bad, but it is nowhere near the top of most people's lists.
To be clear, it did not interfere with BitDefender, but the POTENTIAL is there when dealing with anti-virus programs. And that is what scares me. The last thing I would need is to somehow have BitDefender turned off and then get some nasty virus that would take hours and hours to remove and require me editing the registry to accomplish the removal. So, this is much more annoying to me than if they were trying to push another Adobe product, or something innocuous like a video or music player or something.
I want to reiterate, I am NOT upset enough to stop using Adobe, I am NOT suing anyone, contacting newspapers, Senators or anything like that. I'm not trying to make anyone angry. It is simply my hope that the people at Adobe see this and take it into consideration when making these decisions in the future. Obviously, since I found this thread and others, I am not the only person this has happened to, so my guess would be that it IS an issue.
I wrote this for the Adobe;
I am at least 15 years using this service always asked me if I want or not McAfee but not anymore I hate sneaking without asking my permission
I like Adobe and I am not new to Adobe. Adobe has been pushing McAfee and others, I know to uncheck the boxes when I go to their website. But this time no option not to install it. Why doing that? Because of that I never ever want to McAfee in my computer and I am 65 years old in our business my children paying so much money to use professionally adobe products why you do not leave home user alone??? You give me terrible time for stoping me to enjoy how many minutes I left stolen my golden minutes to deal with I am crying I wasn't so lucky like you I got the computer very late age and learnt how to use it even many bad things around internet I know good and honestly programer too <3 <3 <3 why you want to disappoint me?? Now please stop that and help me to uninstall the McAfee give me space of that may I will like it again...
- Uncheck the McAfee option
When installed select "Never Check for Update"
Found it when I Googled "Adobe Player without McAfee"
I look into the vast majority of the reports I see on this to make sure that the service is working as expected, and I've yet to get clear, reproducible steps (which is what I'd need to supply to the distribution team to get a fix) for a scenario where a bundled offer is installed without the checkbox checked. I'm not contesting that it happens, but I need to know how to reproduce it.
I would highly caution you against selecting Never Check for Update, as each Flash Player update does include new security fixes based on internal work, responsible contributions from security researchers, and intelligence from various partners and entities. Running old versions of Flash Player puts you at significantly increased risk for a malware infection.
Instead, if you don't want to deal with the installers, you're far, far better off (at least from a security perspective) by switching to Google Chrome, or Internet Explorer on Win8 and higher. Both browsers include Flash Player as a built-in component, so there's no separate download, and updates are handled inline with either Chrome's automatic update feature, or Windows Update respectively.
I've posted screenshots and recently, a lengthy video capture of a related testing session in similar threads (I don't have the links handy), and have not been able to reproduce this, even after diligent testing with multiple people and multiple systems, both inside and outside of Adobe's network.
If anyone does come up with reproducible steps, I'm absolutely motivated to champion this issue internally and get a timely fix. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened yet, despite the number of similar threads that have been started on the forums.
While I agree about venerability issue of not updating, allowing automatic updates means McAfee is installed.
The work-a-round I posted is how I was able to update mine. Therefor I can state it does work on WinXP systems. Adobe is not doing themselves any favors by including McAfee. While McAffee is not "malware, Trojan or virus", many of us have had serious problems when trying to use it and even worse issues trying to remove it.