21 Replies Latest reply: Jul 26, 2013 2:45 PM by Peter_Elements RSS

    Can you RENAME footage to be imported (using metadata)...without transcoding?

    DMH79 Community Member

      Is there a way, or a program in the suite that can rename all the files using the file's metadata (namely the date and time it was shot) that we plan to import without transcoding them? They are AVCHD files (.MTS files)... For years we've transcoded to prores proxy and then eventually to ProRes422 when final edit is locked for export, but since Premiere handles native avchd files (.mts) pretty well now, I'd rather not have to transcode and save some hard drive space. Transcoding doesn't appear to offer any benefits over editing natively anymore, right (for basic editing with basic color correction)?

       

      So is there a program (prelude? bridge?) that I can use to access all the mts files and rename them by the date and time it was shot so that I can take all 5 or 6 SDHC cards and combine them and have them all listed in chronological order? Right now I end up with either a folder for each card, or if I try to combine all the clips, I end up with a bunch of files with the same name (eg. 00000.MTS, 00001.MTS, etc...) since that's how they were named coming out of the camera on their respective card.

       

      Please advise. Thanks!

        • 1. Re: Can you RENAME footage to be imported (using metadata)...without transcoding?
          Mark Mapes Employee Hosts

          Bridge is the tool for you on this. Tools>BatchRename. Reasonably self-explanatory from there...

          • 2. Re: Can you RENAME footage to be imported (using metadata)...without transcoding?
            Fuzzy Barsik Community Member

            Mark, I wonder if it's possible to safely rename spanned AVCHD clips in Bridge CC? Normally renaming would break spanning, and vendors offer stitching them together into a single M2TS file via their utilities for that matter.

            • 3. Re: Can you RENAME footage to be imported (using metadata)...without transcoding?
              Mark Mapes Employee Hosts

              Excellent point, Mr. Barsik. Dunno what I was thinking. Or to be more accurate, I simply wasn't thinking.  Thanks for backing me up.

              • 4. Re: Can you RENAME footage to be imported (using metadata)...without transcoding?
                JSS1138 Community Member

                They are AVCHD files

                 

                Your best option is to not touch anything inside the top level PRIVATE folder.  Leave everything exactly as it came off the card.

                • 5. Re: Can you RENAME footage to be imported (using metadata)...without transcoding?
                  jamesp2 Community Member

                  Jim Simon wrote:

                   

                  They are AVCHD files

                   

                  Your best option is to not touch anything inside the top level PRIVATE folder.  Leave everything exactly as it came off the card.

                  The problem here is other applications (such as Resolve?) may not be able to work with duplicate files names, despite the fact that they're located in separate folders.  So if you have 60 files with the same name, e.g. "00001.MTS", you're in big trouble.  It's also cumbersome within Premiere itself to have so much duplication.  There's has to be some easy way to rename them and retain metadata.

                  • 6. Re: Can you RENAME footage to be imported (using metadata)...without transcoding?
                    JSS1138 Community Member

                    I don't argue it's a problem.  But it's a problem camera makers need to correct by not using a damned folder structure.  One MXF file to hold video, audio, timecode and and metadata, which can be renamed or moved as desired without breaking anything.  It's what we had with DV, it's what we need and want back with tapeless.

                     

                    So break out that pen and paper and find the address of your favorite camera company.  Let them know how badly they screwed this one up and that you want it corrected for the forthcoming H.265 standard.

                    • 7. Re: Can you RENAME footage to be imported (using metadata)...without transcoding?
                      Fuzzy Barsik Community Member
                      There's has to be some easy way to rename them and retain metadata.

                      I've been always curious if Panasonic and Canon utilities don't rewrap spanned MTS files into a single M2TS one? Or at least offer stitching transfered spanned m2ts files into a single file like Sony Content Browser does?

                      • 8. Re: Can you RENAME footage to be imported (using metadata)...without transcoding?
                        DMH79 Community Member

                        Mark Mapes wrote:

                         

                        Bridge is the tool for you on this. Tools>BatchRename. Reasonably self-explanatory from there...

                        Sooo...what you all are saying is that I shouldn't use Bridge now to rename the mts files?

                         

                        I don't think I ever get any "spanned" clips anyway. I have long ones (more than an hour) but if I'm seeing it right, I don't believe they are spanned like I would see often using P2 based cameras.

                        • 9. Re: Can you RENAME footage to be imported (using metadata)...without transcoding?
                          Fuzzy Barsik Community Member

                          What model is your camera? If it operates on exFAT, it no longer obeys FAT32 file size limitations, hence it no longer records spanned AVCHD clips.

                          • 10. Re: Can you RENAME footage to be imported (using metadata)...without transcoding?
                            DMH79 Community Member

                            Fuzzy Barsik wrote:

                             

                            What model is your camera? If it operates on exFAT, it no longer obeys FAT32 file size limitations, hence it no longer records spanned AVCHD clips.

                            Cameras used for these projects were Panasonic HMC150. Thoughts???

                            • 11. Re: Can you RENAME footage to be imported (using metadata)...without transcoding?
                              DMH79 Community Member

                              I pulled this from another forum's thread discussing someone else's experience with renaming avchd files and using clipwrap. Interesting:

                               

                              "Thanks, I copied everything to another location during the rename process.

                              Prelude copied and renamed the .movs from the 5D exactly as you suggested, but copied the AVCHD and kept the old indistinct names, despite me selecting the appropriate renaming options. You're right, transcoding would have done it, but I didn't want to make ProRes at that stage or potentially lose quality by transcoding my master files to another format.

                              Running the AVCHD files through clipwrap (making them .movs) and then renaming with Prelude CC and copying to another folder was the only way I could get it to work.

                              A peculiarity of AVCHD I'm guessing. Something to do with the folder structure. Before Prelude CC came out I tired renaming in Adobe Bridge but that lost all association to the metadata within the AVCHD folder structure. I thought that Prelude would have a clever way of renaming and copying the files whilst keeping the timecode/metadata, but I think i've lost it all anyway. It's not a big deal to me, but it's certainly frustrating to loose those options straight away."

                              (source: http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/3/943586#943596)


                              Thoughts on this?

                              • 12. Re: Can you RENAME footage to be imported (using metadata)...without transcoding?
                                Fuzzy Barsik Community Member

                                Panasonic AG-HMC150 is claimed to be on FAT32. Moreover, it was claimed as potentially suffering from spanned AVCHD clips bug in CS6 (no evidence so far though).

                                 

                                Therefore, I'm still curious if Panasonic utilities rewrap spanned MTS clips into a single M2TS file?

                                • 13. Re: Can you RENAME footage to be imported (using metadata)...without transcoding?
                                  jamesp2 Community Member

                                  If you've got a moment, try this, assuming you're on Windows:  shoot a few clips, copy the entire file structure to disk, navigate to the "stream" folder, open it, highlight all the files, right click on the first one, select "rename", rename it (say, with the date& time shot), and execute.  All the highlighted files will be renamed to that time and date, but incrementally numbered ,(1), (2), (3), etc. in sequence.  So each file now has the same root name (date and time), but is numbered sequentially after that.  No duplicate names.

                                   

                                  Now, using the Media Browser, import those clips.  Then go back to the stream folder and see if PPro created .xmp files for each imported clip.  If so, it would appear you have metadata.  If not, no metadata, because PPro couldn't find any after renaming.

                                  • 14. Re: Can you RENAME footage to be imported (using metadata)...without transcoding?
                                    DMH79 Community Member

                                    Fuzzy Barsik wrote:

                                     

                                    Panasonic AG-HMC150 is claimed to be on FAT32. Moreover, it was claimed as potentially suffering from spanned AVCHD clips bug in CS6 (no evidence so far though).

                                     

                                    Therefore, I'm still curious if Panasonic utilities rewrap spanned MTS clips into a single M2TS file?

                                    I've never dealt with any issues. Granted, for a long time I've been transcoding to ProRes using my old FCP7's "Log & Transfer" and in that window it didn't show any of the clips as "spanned" as it would when I'd try to log & transfer P2 clips. So I don't think this camera suffered from any spanned avchd clips bug. And MANY of my files were well over an hour long and close to 10-15gb.

                                     

                                    Granted, if I try to import AVCHD files natively w/o using the Media Browser those long clips come in as 2 or 3 files. For example, an hour long clip would be imported as 00000.mts but 00001.mts and 00002.mts would be the same identical clip. If I used Media Browser and navigated to the PRIVATE folder those 2 or 3 clips would now show as just one file (using the example above I would now see 00000.mts and then the next file would be 00003.mts) so it wouldn't bring in duplicates.

                                     

                                    This ^^^ may be unrelated to spanning, but I just thought I'd throw it out there.

                                    • 15. Re: Can you RENAME footage to be imported (using metadata)...without transcoding?
                                      Fuzzy Barsik Community Member
                                      if I try to import AVCHD files natively w/o using the Media Browser those long clips come in as 2 or 3 files. For example, an hour long clip would be imported as 00000.mts but 00001.mts and 00002.mts would be the same identical clip. If I used Media Browser and navigated to the PRIVATE folder those 2 or 3 clips would now show as just one file (using the example above I would now see 00000.mts and then the next file would be 00003.mts) so it wouldn't bring in duplicates.

                                       

                                      This ^^^ may be unrelated to spanning, but I just thought I'd throw it out there.

                                      That's how PrPro treats spanned AVCHD clips: if all metadata are preserved, it's smart enough to recognise them irrespective of the way you import them.

                                      I've never dealt with any issues.

                                      Even though Adobe announced that the fix for spanned AVCHD clips bug in CS6 will be ported soon, I encourage you to shoot a sample, zip the whole folder structure, upload the archived file to e.g. Google Drive (which offers 15 GB storage fo free now) and share the link in this Joe's CS6 / AVCHD / Spanned Clip Bug / What Cameras And Media Types Are Affected? thread.

                                      • 16. Re: Can you RENAME footage to be imported (using metadata)...without transcoding?
                                        DMH79 Community Member

                                        jamesp2 wrote:

                                         

                                        If you've got a moment, try this, assuming you're on Windows:  shoot a few clips, copy the entire file structure to disk, navigate to the "stream" folder, open it, highlight all the files, right click on the first one, select "rename", rename it (say, with the date& time shot), and execute.  All the highlighted files will be renamed to that time and date, but incrementally numbered ,(1), (2), (3), etc. in sequence.  So each file now has the same root name (date and time), but is numbered sequentially after that.  No duplicate names.

                                         

                                        Now, using the Media Browser, import those clips.  Then go back to the stream folder and see if PPro created .xmp files for each imported clip.  If so, it would appear you have metadata.  If not, no metadata, because PPro couldn't find any after renaming.

                                        I'm on a mac. But I still tried a few things after reading your post...

                                         

                                        First, I copied two existing SDHC card's folders to a new location so I could mess with them. I went in and renamed all the clips 2 different ways:

                                         

                                        1) For one folder I just renamed them straight from the "stream" folder (although on a mac I don't think you can rename them all at once using Finder (which is mac's "search app"). So I did one at a time and then went back to Media Browser and they did not appear anymore. I click on the PRIVATE folder and nothing appears (before renaming, all the files would show except the "duplicate spanned clips" as discussed above). So that didn't work.

                                         

                                        2) Using Finder, I navigated to the stream folder on my 2nd copy of the original SDHC card and then I right-clicked and selected "open with" and selected Adobe Bridge. Bridge opened up that whole folder with all the clips (including the duplicate spanned clips). I renamed them there using date/time, etc. I went back to Media Browser and they also did not show up now. So...instead of using Media Browser, I just imported the whole folder into the project panel. The clips now did populate into the project panel with the new names.

                                         

                                        The new clips generated .cfa and .pek files but did NOT generate .xmp files. Only if I did NOT rename the files did it generate .xmp files.

                                         

                                        Not sure what all this means. I could just transcode to rename, or use clipwrap/prelude workaround like in post #11, or do my 2nd method above using Bridge and just deal with no XMP files (not sure how that will affect anything?)...or hope for another alternative.

                                        • 17. Re: Can you RENAME footage to be imported (using metadata)...without transcoding?
                                          jamesp2 Community Member

                                          Doesn't work in Windows either:  once you rename the files, the file structure becomes inaccessible through the Media Browser.  You can, however, put the renamed files in another folder, and access it directly through the MB -- but not if they're nested in the AVCHD folders.

                                           

                                          It would be interesting to know what, if anything, one loses by forgoing the file structure, and .xmp files, in favor of distinct file names (at least, in the case of non-spanned files).  Far as I can see, there's no operational difference in PPro, but there must be something ... or is it just a relic of the camera's operating/playback system?

                                          • 18. Re: Can you RENAME footage to be imported (using metadata)...without transcoding?
                                            Fuzzy Barsik Community Member

                                            Media Browser automatically detects folder structure for different types of media - AVCHD, Canon XF, Panasonic P2, RED etc. - and hides 'unnecessary' data from a user. When you rename files in e.g. STREAM folder, clips names no longer match what is recorded in metadata, hence they become 'invisible' for Media Browser in AVCHD mode. However, if you switch the mode from AVCHD to File Directory, you can drill down conventional tree and eventually see your clips (as a separate files if they originally were spanned) - no needs to move them elsewhere.

                                             

                                            Regard to what you lose by discarding original folder structure

                                            - spanned clips may lose their synchronisation, 'frozen' duplicated frame may be seen on clips joins;

                                            - the rest depends on whether you utilise metadata recorded in camera. With consumer camcorders there are no much options for them, they are mostly presented in prosumer and professional cameras. Vendors transfer utilities tend to preserve in camera metadata.

                                             

                                            By the way, Operating Instruction manual for Panasonic AG-HMC150 argues that it's possible to set USER CLIP NAME instead of conventional 5-digit naming. That may be the answer for DMH79.

                                            • 20. Re: Can you RENAME footage to be imported (using metadata)...without transcoding?
                                              DMH79 Community Member

                                              jamesp2 wrote:

                                               

                                              It would be interesting to know what, if anything, one loses by forgoing the file structure, and .xmp files, in favor of distinct file names (at least, in the case of non-spanned files).  Far as I can see, there's no operational difference in PPro, but there must be something ... or is it just a relic of the camera's operating/playback system?

                                              I'd love to know that as well.

                                               

                                              But, considering I have often clips of 30mins to over an hour, it's probably best I don't mess with something that could cause spanning issues as I've never had an issue editing spanned clips from my camera in FCP7, CS6 or now in CC. Again, I've always transcoded to ProRes Proxy, edited, then trancoded to ProRes422 before final output and have been able to rename the files starting with the shoot date and time so all the shots from all the cards are placed in chronlogical order. I'm fine editing natively now because I can keep everything organized, but if I have other editors working on the same project, I just hope the duplicate file names (eg. 00000.mts, etc...) don't get us messed up.

                                              • 21. Re: Can you RENAME footage to be imported (using metadata)...without transcoding?
                                                Peter_Elements Community Member

                                                I did find one work around, but it's a bit of a pain. If it's a small project I import into PP right off the card, rename the clips in PP then use the project manager to move the files to my RAID and tell it to rename the files to match my names. This will rename the meta stuff too. The drawback is you have to rename each file, you can't batch rename and you have to wait for conforming. But you can get it to copy the conformed files when you use Project Manager.