8 Replies Latest reply on Aug 7, 2013 11:39 AM by Fuzzy Barsik

    Help Understanding DNxHD...for Master/Archive Export

    DMH79 Level 2

      DNxHD MXF OP1a vs. MXF OP1a vs. ProRes422/HQ

       

      Would love a bit of help understanding the advantages (if any) of one format over the other when exporting a digital master of a project for archiving purposes (ideally to view on BOTH mac and PC).

       

      With Premiere Pro CC, we have DNxHD now as an option. Along with my trusty ProRes422 master copy (I'm a mac user), is DNxHD what I should be exporting a master as instead of the MXF OP1a (AVC-Intra 100) for PC users ? (assuming it's a PC friendly format)

       

      Also, I noted in the export settings there was Avid DNxHD 90 8-bit as well as 10-bit. Should I always select 10-bit or if my footage was originally all 8-bit anyway is there any point?

       

       

      NOTE: Most of my clients are regular people who don't have avid, fcp, premiere or anything like that. Some have macs and some have PCs. Just regular folks, not studio clients who would know what format they would want in the end if I asked them.

       

      NOTE#2: I'm a mac user so I'm used to dealing with ProRes. When I want to export a final MASTER file of something I've always exported ProRes422.  I found ProResHQ didn't give any extra quality bump after pixel peeping but it did make the file size much larger so I stuck with ProRes422. Then, I also got in the habit of exporting an MXF OP1a file (AVC-Intra Class100) just in case my clients have PC's only. I think I remember reading that's a good PC master format to give people on a thread here somewhere. But now there's DNxHD so I'm curious...

       

      Thanks!

        • 1. Re: Help Understanding DNxHD...for Master/Archive Export
          DMH79 Level 2

          Just updated this question I posted a couple weeks back...still curious

          • 2. Re: Help Understanding DNxHD...for Master/Archive Export
            Jim_Simon Level 8

            I think with a Master you choose what works best for you.  You generally don't deliver Masters for viewing, you use them to create the version you will be viewing.

             

            Having said that, I do feel that QuickTme is an old, buggy, problematic container that needs to go the way of the dodo, so I will always recommend not using QuickTime - for anything.  Let's just everybody stop using it entirely so it'll die already.

             

            MXF is the container of the future.  It's only major down side is that not many programs can deal with the format just yet.

            • 3. Re: Help Understanding DNxHD...for Master/Archive Export
              DMH79 Level 2

              Jim Simon wrote:

               

              I think with a Master you choose what works best for you.  You generally don't deliver Masters for viewing, you use them to create the version you will be viewing.

               

              Having said that, I do feel that QuickTme is an old, buggy, problematic container that needs to go the way of the dodo, so I will always recommend not using QuickTime - for anything.  Let's just everybody stop using it entirely so it'll die already.

               

              MXF is the container of the future.  It's only major down side is that not many programs can deal with the format just yet.

              Thanks for responding Jim. Somehow I missed your post here. Ignore my reference to a "master" copy then...If I were to give a client a digital copy of the edit (regular people, not editors or studio people) for safe keeping, then it sounds like you recommend MXF? If so, then do you have any thoughts on the DNxHD version that we can now export vs. the previous avc-intra 100 version we've been able to do. I'm guessing they are both good, but which one would you give regular folks looking to keep a viewable back up of the work (in my case, a digital copy of their wedding videos)?

               

              And if the answer is DNxHD, should it always be 10bit or does it matter since the original footage was 8 bit anyway?

              • 4. Re: Help Understanding DNxHD...for Master/Archive Export
                DA post prod Level 2

                I would advice DNxHD as a master copy, because it requires less processor power to decode, and is more sustainable : we don't know if in 5 or 10 years avc-intra will still be there, but we are pretty sure DNxHD will be). You don't need 10bit if your source is 8bit.

                 

                I would advice you give them two copies : one for backup and archival purpose (DNxHD), another for sharing it (h264).

                • 5. Re: Help Understanding DNxHD...for Master/Archive Export
                  Fuzzy Barsik Level 4
                  If I were to give a client a digital copy of the edit (regular people, not editors or studio people) for safe keeping, then it sounds like you recommend MXF?

                  With more than high probability common people won't be able to playback anything in MXF container.

                  should it always be 10bit or does it matter since the original footage was 8 bit anyway?

                  That does not entirely depend on whether your source files were 8-bit or not. That's a bit more complex. If you properly graded your 8-bit footages, i.e. in 32-bit working space (in terms of PrPro that means enabling 'Maximum Bit Depth' in Sequence Settings), 10-bit render (for which you need to check 'Maximim Bit Depth' in the Export Settings dialog, unless you render into DNxHD in MOV container) preserves quality better than 8-bit. However, if rendering to 8-bit doesn't result in colour bending or something like that, common people will hardly see any difference.

                  • 6. Re: Help Understanding DNxHD...for Master/Archive Export
                    DMH79 Level 2

                    Tento wrote:

                     

                    I would advice you give them two copies : one for backup and archival purpose (DNxHD), another for sharing it (h264).

                    Ok. Thanks. Any of the DNxHD options okay? I do put their video up online to share but giving them the actual h264 file that I upload as well might not be a bad idea. Thanks.

                    • 7. Re: Help Understanding DNxHD...for Master/Archive Export
                      DMH79 Level 2

                      Fuzzy Barsik wrote:

                      With more than high probability common people won't be able to playback anything in MXF container.

                      So which would format would YOU recommend I hand them for a playable safe-keeping format?  (some are on PC and some are on mac if that makes any difference)

                       

                       

                      Fuzzy Barsik wrote:

                       

                      If you properly graded your 8-bit footages, i.e. in 32-bit working space (in terms of PrPro that means enabling 'Maximum Bit Depth' in Sequence Settings), 10-bit render (for which you need to check 'Maximim Bit Depth' in the Export Settings dialog, unless you render into DNxHD in MOV container) preserves quality better than 8-bit. However, if rendering to 8-bit doesn't result in colour bending or something like that, common people will hardly see any difference.

                       

                      That's interesting. I've never checked that Max Bit Depth box in Sequence Settings. I don't do much grading. Color correction, yes, but nothing too crazy or with tons of layers. I figured checking that would slow things down and speed is paramount. On occasion, I'll noticed some color banding with my footage (like in the gradient of the sky) but not often and no one ever complains.  I used to check Max Bit Depth in export settings not knowing what I was doing but it sounded important so I did...but then I stopped when I had THIS>> (http://forums.adobe.com/message/4773556)<  issue with one of my exports (I changed many settings to get it resolved, and it only went away when max bit depth was unchecked (granted, now that you mention it, I didn't have max bit depth checked during editing in the sequence settings...hmmm).

                      • 8. Re: Help Understanding DNxHD...for Master/Archive Export
                        Fuzzy Barsik Level 4
                        So which would format would YOU recommend I hand them for a playable safe-keeping format?  (some are on PC and some are on mac if that makes any difference)

                        Same as Tento: H.264 in MP4 container exported with HDTV preset (i.e. with 32/40 Mbps bitrate).

                        I stopped when I had THIS>> (http://forums.adobe.com/message/4773556)

                        See the note in my comment, 'unless you render into DNxHD in MOV container'. Avid QuirkTime package has never been included with either PrPro or AE. Therefore, proper communication with the DNxHD interface has never been thoroughly tested by Adobe (although it could have been...)