11 Replies Latest reply on Jul 19, 2013 11:39 AM by camilo umana

    How to manage the space between a table and its title?

    camilo umana Level 1

      Have tables where titles are very close to the main text and need a couple of points to separate these elements. How to reshape this space?

       

       

      1. Titles were separated by a return that is not  visible...  (any code is revealed by ID)

      table1.jpg

       

      2. When a Return is inserted after the title, nothing happens aparently, but this return is now visible and could be used as a «paragraph space after» value:

      table3.jpg

       

      3. A solution could be Grep to catch the end of paragraph assigned to titles to insert a return;

      but Grep only catches the right border of the table (the yellow mark shows the big blinking cursor);

      Grep cannot see the end of paragraph in the tables's title.

      table4.jpg

       

      It another method?

       

       

      Basically, how to modify the space between a table and ists title

        • 1. Re: How to manage the space between a table and its title?
          BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

          You're way over thinking this. Set the space after for the title paragraph style and/or look at the space before setting in the table setup.

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          • 2. Re: How to manage the space between a table and its title?
            camilo umana Level 1

            Bob, think the paragraph space does not work... It was the first step.

            If you insert the return the style works, otherwise not.

            • 3. Re: How to manage the space between a table and its title?
              camilo umana Level 1

              You may see that a 20 mm paragraph space does not affect at all the situation.

               

              table5 bob.jpg

               

               

              I think Indesign is managing this situation in two ways. If I type a title and create a table, yes, the hard return is present. But in other cases is not present the return after the title as showed above in the pictures: perhaps is the reason that ID can aplly a space. In this case are tables coming from Word. How to fix the situation for this second event? Inserting a false return works but manually does not seem correct. Thank you.

              • 4. Re: How to manage the space between a table and its title?
                Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

                You have to bring the whole table in its own paragraph. As far as I see from your screenshoot you put the table like a character into the same paragraph as the text before. That is why space after or space befor cannot work here.

                Ok, in the other case you used a paragraph character. But another item which will inluence is the table setup where also spaces before and after are defined. Per default they are negatvie, but you can increase them.

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                • 5. Re: How to manage the space between a table and its title?
                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                  I think you and Bob are not in synch here.

                   

                  Bob suggested that you could use paragraph spacing, but for that to work you do need to use separate paragraphs for the title and table, which you don't seem to be doing. Using GREP to find the end of the paragraph only works if there IS and end to the paragraph. As far as I know there is now meta-character to use in Find/Change that would allow you to find a table and insert a paragraph break ahead of it, but I bet it could be scripted.

                   

                  I'm not quite sure what you were trying to find in the GREP you posted. Did you actually have a paragraph return inserted already after the title? In that case you only need to redefine the style for that paragraph to add the space (or redefine the style for the paragraph that holds the table itself). You don't need the GREP. But the reason it does nothing is that you've found a location -- the end of the paragraph, but haven't found any actual text to modify. To do anything you would need to use something like .$

                   

                  But back to NOT having a separate paragraph... If you put the cursor in any table cell and go to Table Options > Table Setup tab you'll see fields to set space before and after the table that should do what you want. That was the second part of what he posted.

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                  • 6. Re: How to manage the space between a table and its title?
                    camilo umana Level 1

                    Yes, that is the point. Those came from Word like this. The division between title and table is inexistent as a format element. A solution is perhaps intersects a hard return but is no way of recognizing terms?

                    • 7. Re: How to manage the space between a table and its title?
                      camilo umana Level 1

                      I'm not quite sure what you were trying to find in the GREP you posted. Did you actually have a paragraph return inserted already after the title?

                      Is no paragraph return.. That is the problem. With a paragraph return Bob's idea is perfect.

                       

                      A solution is to fill the gap with a real paragraph return BUT not manually. That was the reason to use Grep and introduce it. It is a tautology... Grep needs to find a paragraph return no introduce another paragraph return!!! Only a paragraph return seems to make usable the paragraph style applied to the title.

                       

                      The point is how to manage this space in these conditions, as tables from Word came like this. Hundred of tables is not too much (more time spent here) but logic obliges to create a logical solution.

                      • 9. Re: How to manage the space between a table and its title?
                        camilo umana Level 1

                        Hi, Peter.

                         

                        This option works, it seems, only selecting a table?

                         

                        Could not find the way to exert this option for all the recurrences, as Table Options is grayed out if a table is not selected.

                         

                        Why ID allows two elements (title + bodytable)  be accomplished without codes?

                         

                        At least, it was a problem derived from Word? (Image)

                        Screen Shot 2013-07-16 at 10.58.09 AM.jpg

                        • 10. Re: How to manage the space between a table and its title?
                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                          I'm not quite sure what your new question is. If the the title is part of the same paragraph as the table, then you want to use the spacing options in table setup. The easiest way to do that for multiple tables would be to add that space as part of a Table Style, I think.

                          • 11. Re: How to manage the space between a table and its title?
                            camilo umana Level 1

                            Willi said:

                            As far as I see from your screenshoot you put the table like a character into the same paragraph as the text before

                            Not me, it was Word. But the point is that here we have not a real return between table and title. And sadly, have not the slighest idea what is separating both of them. Consequently, we can't access trough Grep to insert real paragraph returns. Word is more obscure, surely. The problem remained. Thank you.