21 Replies Latest reply on Jul 23, 2013 7:46 PM by Kranex1

    NVidia Quadro 4000 vs Quadro K5000 for Mac

    Keith Moreau Level 1

      I currently have a Mac Pro 12 core, 32 GB RAM, OWC PCI SSD and fast RAIDs with Mac OS 10.8.4, a Quadro 4000 and Premiere Pro CC. I like the performance but I'm always looking to get better performance, especially with real time playback / editing of native formats such as AVCHD. Will I see noticeable speed gains in Premiere Pro if I get a Quadro K5000?

       

      Thanks for any advice.

        • 1. Re: NVidia Quadro 4000 vs Quadro K5000 for Mac
          ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

          Yes you would see a noticeable difference from the Quadro 4000 with some media. Others you would not. Do you require the 10Bit color of the Quadros? If not I would look at a Titan card or 780GTX and use the Quadro 4000 for output. If all slots used then those would be a better choice if 10bit was not a concern.

           

          Eric

          ADK

          • 2. Re: NVidia Quadro 4000 vs Quadro K5000 for Mac
            Keith Moreau Level 1

            Thanks Eric, is 10-Bit color even possible on Mac OS 10.8.4? Also isn't the Titan a pretty power hungry card, with that and the Quadro 4000 at the same time am I running into the power supply limitations of the 2010 12 core mac pro? I assume that if I have both cards in, I would then be able to choose inside Premiere Pro CC which to use for the CUDA mercury playback engine? Thanks much again for any advice.

             

            -Keith

            • 3. Re: NVidia Quadro 4000 vs Quadro K5000 for Mac
              ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

              As far as I have seen, no 10bit preview is still not available on OSX. You would have to run Windows as well on the Mac for those workflows. The PSU in the 2012 Mac Pro should be able to handle the Quadro card and the Geforce card. Yes you should be able to choose which card handles the GPU acceleration with OSX and the current driver. You definitely can with Win 7.

               

              Eric

              ADK

              • 4. Re: NVidia Quadro 4000 vs Quadro K5000 for Mac
                jasonvp Level 3

                Keith Moreau wrote:

                 

                Also isn't the Titan a pretty power hungry card, with that and the Quadro 4000 at the same time am I running into the power supply limitations of the 2010 12 core mac pro?

                With a stock Mac Pro, you will not be able to power a single Titan, GTX780, or any of the really powerful nVidia cards without an add-in power supply.  The motherboard in the Pro has traces on it for 2 6-pin PCI-E connectors (just 2, and just 6-pin...) and that's it.  Those traces are how you connect a video card up to PCI-E power.  You do not connect the cards directly to the power supply since it doesn't have any leads available for it.

                 

                Running a Quadro 4k (takes 1 of the 2 6-pin connectors) and another 2-plug nVidia card is completely out of the question.

                 

                Your choices are somewhat limited:

                1. Pull the Quadro and add a Mac-specific GTX 680 from EVGA
                2. Talk to seller MacVidCards (see the MacRumors website) about a modified nVidia card that will work in your system
                3. Run a card with 6-to-8-pin adapters and hope that the card downclocks itself vs trying to draw too much power through the traces.
                4. Add another power supply to the unit and run power-hungry cards.

                 

                I understand that the later nVidia cards (6xx, 7xx, and Titan) may actually downclock themselves when they realize they only have 6 of the 8 pins connected.  But I can not verify or validate that myself.

                • 5. Re: NVidia Quadro 4000 vs Quadro K5000 for Mac
                  Kranex1 Level 1

                  Thanks Eric, is 10-Bit color even possible on Mac OS 10.8.4?

                  Yes, on Mountain Lion. But you need the 10 bit monitor too. Look for the DP logo.

                   

                  Also isn't the Titan a pretty power hungry card, with that and the Quadro 4000 at the same time am I running into the power supply limitations of the 2010 12 core mac pro?

                  Gaming cards run higher and hotter. 

                  I assume that if I have both cards in, I would then be able to choose inside Premiere Pro CC which to use for the CUDA mercury playback engine? Thanks much again for any advice.

                  If you have the budget for it and it works. The best of both worlds if you game as well.

                  • 6. Re: NVidia Quadro 4000 vs Quadro K5000 for Mac
                    ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                    Run from the Aux ports and an adapter from the Optical bay area for the PCi-E 8 pin Power.

                     

                    Specs of cards:

                     

                    Titan - http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-titan/specifications

                     

                    780 - http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-780/specifications

                     

                    680 - http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-680/specifications

                     

                    570 - http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-570/specifications

                     

                    50W or less difference at load which the Mac Pro can more than handle. I have installed both Quadro 4000 and 570GTX  before without issue on 2012 Mac Pro. Remember the Quadro load is low when just using as output device. However if you dont need 10bit then there is no reason to keep the Quadro in. This shows though you can run a 780GTX or Titan by itself in the system.

                     

                    Eric

                    ADK

                    • 7. Re: NVidia Quadro 4000 vs Quadro K5000 for Mac
                      ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                      Can you please link where the 10bit support is listed or added. I have not found it.


                      Eric

                      ADK

                      • 8. Re: NVidia Quadro 4000 vs Quadro K5000 for Mac
                        jasonvp Level 3

                        ECBowen wrote:

                         

                        Run from the Aux ports and an adapter from the Optical bay area for the PCi-E 8 pin Power.

                        ...or an add-on power supply that fits in the second optical bay, which is a common trick that people use.

                         

                        This shows though you can run a 780GTX or Titan by itself in the system.

                        Not without the aforementioned help from the optical bay.  The 780GTX, for instance, has a 250W draw.  The maximum power that a single card can draw from the PCI slot and the 2 motherboard AUX ports is 225W.  Is that extra 25W worth worrying over?  It is if it fries your motherboard. (And yes, it has been recorded to have happened).

                         

                        And just because you've done it doesn't mean it was wise or smart to have.  But, as I mentioned in my previous post, some of the newer nVidia cards may down-clock themselves to make sure they don't over-draw from a 6-pin connector.

                        • 9. Re: NVidia Quadro 4000 vs Quadro K5000 for Mac
                          Keith Moreau Level 1

                          Thanks all. So I'm hearing the GTX cards are fast. Or is it that they are a good deal compared to the Quadro cards? For example, is the 780GTX faster with mercury playback engine than the new Quadro K5000 which I believe has an acceptable power draw without mods or adapters? I realize the K5000 Mac is probably $1K more than the GTX cards but if it's more reliable and just as fast it might be worth it without having to do much jury rigging.

                           

                          Again thanks for the advice.

                          • 10. Re: NVidia Quadro 4000 vs Quadro K5000 for Mac
                            ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                            Well according to what I have read the Aux ports are 150W limit over the 300W total for the slots. So it should be fine based on specs unless that information is incorrect. I have not seen the 225W limit total anywhere. Can you please reference where that is?

                             

                            BTW the cards are only pulling the load listed at max GPU load. This is extremely rare even when editing on those cards. All of the Nvidia cards will C-State due to heat or low load. I am sure you are correct about the power as well is that uses the same hardware process.

                             

                            Eric

                            ADK

                            • 11. Re: NVidia Quadro 4000 vs Quadro K5000 for Mac
                              ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                              The 700 Series GPU's would be faster than the K5000 with some media such as Red or other 2K+ media. Most compressed media would not have a major performance difference but there would be some.

                               

                              Eric

                              ADK

                              • 12. Re: NVidia Quadro 4000 vs Quadro K5000 for Mac
                                jasonvp Level 3

                                ECBowen wrote:

                                 

                                Well according to what I have read the Aux ports are 150W limit over the 300W total for the slots. So it should be fine based on specs unless that information is incorrect. I have not seen the 225W limit total anywhere. Can you please reference where that is?

                                Each AUX line is 75W, as is each PCI-E slot.  3 x 75W == 225W.

                                • 13. Re: NVidia Quadro 4000 vs Quadro K5000 for Mac
                                  ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                  Yes but 1 of the Adapters would be coming from the Sata Power. Would that not change that?

                                   

                                  Eric

                                  ADK

                                  • 14. Re: NVidia Quadro 4000 vs Quadro K5000 for Mac
                                    Kranex1 Level 1

                                    Thanks all. So I'm hearing the GTX cards are fast. Or is it that they are a good deal compared to the Quadro cards?

                                    If you feel that paying less money is a good thing then, yes.

                                     

                                    For example, is the 780GTX faster with mercury playback engine than the new Quadro K5000 which I believe has an acceptable power draw without mods or adapters?

                                    Maybe? Maybe not? It depends on what it's running. Then again there's more to editing than speed.

                                     

                                    I realize the K5000 Mac is probably $1K more than the GTX cards but if it's more reliable and just as fast it might be worth it without having to do much jury rigging.

                                    The testing of the reliability and stability of the pro cards are what you're paying for. That and the drivers. These cards have been certified to work with specific programs with speed and stability.

                                     

                                    When you hear debate about cost, it is from those where 100% accuracy is not necessary. It that's the case for you, then a gaming card will save you money.

                                    • 15. Re: NVidia Quadro 4000 vs Quadro K5000 for Mac
                                      ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                      There is no accuracy difference between the processing of the Quadros versus the Geforce cards. The GPU's in the cards are the same. The difference is in the drivers and firmware. The Quadros' have ECC capable ram but the accuracy difference there is speculative at best. I can also comment on the reliability. We have a much higher failure rate on Quadro 4000 or K4000 than we do the 670, 680, 780, or Titan cards by percentage. I would list the percentage difference but that has already been reported to Nvidia.

                                       

                                      Eric

                                      ADK

                                      • 16. Re: NVidia Quadro 4000 vs Quadro K5000 for Mac
                                        ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                        BTW in regards to the Titan, people are testing these already without issue.

                                        http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1565650

                                         

                                        Adding the 2nd PSU obviously is the safe way to do it but power draw results show the draw load is similar to as Nvidia states in difference with 570GTX.

                                         

                                        Eric

                                        ADK

                                        • 17. Re: NVidia Quadro 4000 vs Quadro K5000 for Mac
                                          Keith Moreau Level 1

                                          Reading the thread you referenced, Eric, I'm even more scared to run something other than the Quadro cards in my Mac Pro. It seems that the higher end GTX is going to tax my power beyond what it is rated for and therefore lots of time and trouble and modification to my stock Mac Pro. In addition I do have my Mac Pro fully stuffed with drives and cards, potentially drawing more power that the GTX cards need. I do think that MacVidCards has a GTX 770 which I suppose is Modded somehow to work well with my Mac Pro. Maybe just better boot screens. Does anybody have any experience with those cards running in Premiere Pro CUDA acceleration? I'm primarily interested in smoother multicam AVCHD stream decoding. RIght now with my Quadro 4000 it's pretty good with Premiere Pro CC, I'm always just looking for better performance.

                                          • 18. Re: NVidia Quadro 4000 vs Quadro K5000 for Mac
                                            jasonvp Level 3

                                            Keith Moreau wrote:

                                             

                                            I do think that MacVidCards has a GTX 770 which I suppose is Modded somehow to work well with my Mac Pro. Maybe just better boot screens. Does anybody have any experience with those cards running in Premiere Pro CUDA acceleration? I'm primarily interested in smoother multicam AVCHD stream decoding. RIght now with my Quadro 4000 it's pretty good with Premiere Pro CC, I'm always just looking for better performance.

                                            I have one of Dave's flashed GTX570s, which is nothing like the newer cards.  It falls within the power spec of the PCI-E slot + 2 AUX plugs.  I replaced a Quadro 4K with it, and it literally ran through my own Premiere tests in half the time the Quadro did.

                                             

                                            The Quadro has certain things which it does well, but CUDA and Premiere aren't it.  The gaming GTX-based cards are substantially faster.

                                             

                                            All that said: if Dave says it'll fall within proper specs, I'd trust him.  He's very careful with the work he does, and he's not interested in blowing up your Mac for you.

                                            • 19. Re: NVidia Quadro 4000 vs Quadro K5000 for Mac
                                              Keith Moreau Level 1

                                              Thanks Jason - how was your noise level with the GTX vs the Quadro?

                                              • 20. Re: NVidia Quadro 4000 vs Quadro K5000 for Mac
                                                jasonvp Level 3

                                                Keith Moreau wrote:

                                                 

                                                Thanks Jason - how was your noise level with the GTX vs the Quadro?

                                                The 570 is noisier than the Quadro under load.  Idle, you can't tell it's there.  But bear in mind it's a generation old.  The newer cards are better in that regard.

                                                • 21. Re: NVidia Quadro 4000 vs Quadro K5000 for Mac
                                                  Kranex1 Level 1

                                                  If I was in the market for a graphics card I might consider a GTX but I'd never trade my Quadro in for one. Remember, there's more to rendering than just pure speed; sometimes its more important to be accurate. especially in the medical and science fields.

                                                   

                                                  Quadros have their place (they're also necessary for 10 bit) so unless maximum precision is not that critical to you, a GTX would be substantially less expensive. However, as you already pointed out, a GTX does run a lot hotter than do Quadros