19 Replies Latest reply on Jul 27, 2013 6:34 AM by Steve Werner

    How do I get UK Spelling to work?

    dissidently Level 1

      I've turned on and changed everything that I would think is UK spelling.

       

      But I'm still getting things like "customise" insisting it needs a z.

       

      it's not annoying.

       

      It's REALLY ANNOYING.

       

      What version of English is primarily used in India?

       

      And while we're at it, when are things like iPad, app and iOS going to be added to the dictionary of an app (Indesign) that's major new selling point is that it makes native presentation apps for iPads via iOS?

        • 1. Re: How do I get UK Spelling to work?
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          Is the language actually assigned to the text UK English? Language is a character level attribute and isaasigned in the Character panel, the Control panel, or as part of the style definition.

           

          And it wouldn't surprise me if the spell check found customize to be an acceptable alternate spelling and did not flag it. There's no substitute for actually proofreading. You could set up a find/change query to change ize to ise, too.

          • 2. Re: How do I get UK Spelling to work?
            dissidently Level 1

            All the following set to English English, and then restarted app, several times.

             

            Your idea that I should accept americanisation of spelling MIGHT hold water if it was only in a couple of words.

             

            But "colour"? 

             

            I draw the line there.

             

            I don't think it's working.  I think it's just 'merican eEnlish or nada.

             

            //why does a smart guy like you bother with myopic use of truisms like this in vague defense of the brand: "There's no substitute for actually proofreading."

             

             

            Screen Shot 2013-07-27 at 3.12.36 AM.png

            Screen Shot 2013-07-27 at 3.12.04 AM.png

            Screen Shot 2013-07-27 at 3.11.46 AM.png

             

            Further, if you've gotten this far down here... how's this:

             

            Screen Shot 2013-07-27 at 3.20.27 AM.png

             

            I'm left thinking this is a Beta that shouldn't have been released to the public, as it appears the help menu has no idea there are language settings in the app.

            • 3. Re: How do I get UK Spelling to work?
              Peter Kahrel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Who are you calling myopic? Your Character panel shows that you use USA English. Close all documents, select UK English, make sure it's selected in [Basic Paragraph] too, and exit InDesign. This will set UK English as InDesign's default. Start InDesign again, open your eyes, clean your lenses, and don't get on the wrong side of P. Spier.

               

              Peter

              • 4. Re: How do I get UK Spelling to work?
                dissidently Level 1

                Character panel?  I don't have any character, or backbone.  I'm a fish out of water.

                 

                I've tried this approach, as you say, several times, thinking that restarts etc would push it into recognition.  It's the reason I mentioned restarts.  I've used enough software to know that dictionary type settings for external files usually require restarts to bed in. 

                 

                There's something wrong in CC. // understatement. 

                • 5. Re: How do I get UK Spelling to work?
                  dissidently Level 1

                  Wow, that Character Panel thing was really intriguing.

                   

                  When I screen grabbed that it was UK.... I'm near sure.

                   

                  I just changed it, again... and then switched back [Command + Tab] to here, and just that panel came up on the screen... as an overlay.

                  • 6. Re: How do I get UK Spelling to work?
                    dissidently Level 1

                    argh, the trick is to SELECT ALL in the document... but this is not possible in Indesign because it's not possible to select all items on other pages.... so only the items on the current page are changed. 

                     

                    Probably listed as a feature somewhere by Adobe, that "Select All" doesn't actually Select all. 

                    • 7. Re: How do I get UK Spelling to work?
                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                      You can use find/change to reset the language in any document. In the find format set the language attribute to English:USA and the change format to English:UK and change all, then go through your style defintions and fix them, too, or you'll wind up back where you are now.

                       

                      Do you recall we suggested doing some training a week or so ago because ID is complex, and you said you didn't feel you needed it? Well, here you are with a basic function you don't understand, and you blame everyone but yourself.

                      • 8. Re: How do I get UK Spelling to work?
                        dissidently Level 1

                        Do you recall me asking for an understanding of the methodology of Indesign?

                         

                        Do you recall that I NEVER SAID I DON'T NEED BASIC TRAINING... that there is, in fact, a better way?

                         

                        Do you recall NEVER suggesting where there is this basic training?

                         

                        Do you recall nobody else suggesing where that basic training is?

                         

                        Do you recall me suggesging that if a product of this kind does not have a manual that configures a users understanding then that is a fault of the creators?

                         

                        But that's all irrelevant.

                         

                        The simple answer to this entire problem is this.

                         

                        Everything in Indesign that is text is a slave to the Character Panel's setting.  It over-rides everything and anything. 

                         

                        The other answer is that you have, multiple times, suggested that this is the place to reach out for help, that there is no basic training from Adobe on their Indesign product.

                         

                        All you had to say was the Basic Character Formatting overides all other formatting, including language settings that one would (VERY NORMALLY) assume were part of a documents master setting.  The benefit of this design choice is that a document can feature multiple languages without needing special consideration modes for those boxes with multiple languages.  Despite the confusion this overarching use of language as a sub-choice of Character Formatting, a place where one might assume the class dependency nature of program leads Character to be a Child of a parent setting for language for a document.... etc.


                        The downside of this is that there are many problems with this approach that are unintuitive. 

                         

                        The other thing, that's just been highlighted and you've utterly chosen to ignore, is that Select All, something common to just about every software on earth, does not work as it does in every other program on earth.

                         

                        So the next part of describing the methodology of Indesign is that it's designed around (or the best work around) using Find/Replace as opposed to something that is a common paradigm choice of use in every other app, that Select All, actually.... you know.... SELECT ALL.

                         

                        Again, simply explain the methodologies and paradigms of an app, and external basic training is not necessary, because understanding is actually communicated in a far superior manner by explaining the paradigms, methodologies and contextual relevancies of each within each mode.

                         

                        Speaking of modes... shortcut key modal changes deserve a special table explaining how they work in Indesign. Where is that?

                        • 10. Re: How do I get UK Spelling to work?
                          dissidently Level 1

                          TO GET UK SPELLING TO WORK.

                           

                          1. Start a new document.

                           

                          2. DO NOT THINK ABOUT COPY/PASTING TEXT FROM OTHER DOCUMENTS INTO THIS DOCUMENT.

                           

                          3. IGNORE THE LANGUAGE AND DICTIONARY SETTINGS FOR A MOMENT, THEY ARE CHILDREN OF A TRUE MASTER SWITCH.

                           

                          4. BEFORE YOU SELECT ANYTHING.  BEFORE YOU CREATE ANYTHING... GOTO THE LANGUAGE SETTING OF THE CHARACTER PANEL.  CHANGE IT'S LANGUAGE TO UK ENGLISH.

                           

                          5. CHANGE THE "master" SETTINGS IN PREFERENCES TO UK ENGLISH. 

                           

                          6. NOW UNDERSTAND THAT ALL TEXT OBJECTS OF INDESIGN CARRY THEIR CHARACTER PANEL LANGUAGE PREFERENCE.  THAT THIS IS THE MASTER SWITCH FOR ANY PIECE OF TEXT'S LANGUAGE CHOICE.

                           

                          7. UNDERSTAND THAT THIS GRANULARLY CONTRADICTORY APPROACH TO HAVING 'master' SETTINGS IN THE PREFERENCES OF YOUR DOCUMENT CONTRADICTED AND OVER RIDDEN BY A PANEL THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT !!! -- INDIVIDUAL -- !!! CHARACTERS IS THE KIND OF CONTRADICTION PREVALENT IN ADOBE DESIGN LANGUAGE. 

                           

                          8.  UNDERSTAND AND ACCEPT THAT THIS SORT OF UNINTUITIVE CONTRADICTION WILL BE VEHEMENTLY DEFENDED BY THE USERS IN THE 'support' FORUMS PROVIDED BY ADOBE AS A 'substitute' FOR REAL DOCUMENTATION, MANUALS AND GENUINE TRANSFERENCE OF UNDERSTANDING. 

                           

                          9. ACCEPT THAT THE INABLIITY OF USERS TO BE EVEN VAGUELY OBJECTIVE ABOUT THE DESIGN LANGUAGE AND CHOICES OF ADOBE 'engineers' IS SIMPLY MISPLACED LOYALTY TO A BRAND WITHOUT A FACE, THAT THEY ARE PROBABLY REALLY NICE PEOPLE, JUST VERY DESIROUS OF A WORLD WITHOUT CHALLENGE TO THE SANCTITY OF ADOBE CHOICES.

                           

                          10. UNDERSTAND THAT THE USERS OF ADOBE PRODUCTS EXPECT YOU TO NOT ONLY ACCEPT THE DESIGN CHOICES OF ADOBE'S 'engineers' BUT TO ALSO LOVE THOSE CHOICES AND DEFEND THEM UNCONDITIONALLY, EVEN WHEN THEY FLY IN THE FACE OF EVERY PREVIOUSLY KNOWN CONVENTION OF LOGIC AND SENSE.  THAT THE ADOBE WAY IS THE WAY TO LOVE AND ADORE, WITHOUT QUESTION OR CHALLENGE. 

                           

                          11. SARCASM AND HUMOUR OF ANY SORT, WHETHER ATTEMPTED OR GENUINE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. 

                          • 11. Re: How do I get UK Spelling to work?
                            dissidently Level 1

                            I see what you did there... you're another failed comedian.  Well done. 

                             

                            Where, in all that mess, would one learn that something like the document's language is over-ridden by the language chosen in the 'CHARACTER PANEL'?

                            • 12. Re: How do I get UK Spelling to work?
                              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                              The document's language is not "overridden" in the Character panel, it is set in the Character panel (or linked fields in the Control panel and your style definitions). That is the ONLY place that language is set. The dictionary settings in the preferences are there so you can choose which installed dictionary to use for each language, but have no effect on the language assigned to any text anywhere in the file.

                               

                              It seems pretty clear that you don't really want any help in understanding how the program works, so I wouldn't be surprised if you find it harder and harder to get any response at all here.

                              • 13. Re: How do I get UK Spelling to work?
                                BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                It seems pretty clear that you don't really want any help in understanding how the program works, so I wouldn't be surprised if you find it harder and harder to get any response at all here.

                                 

                                That is already a given.

                                • 14. Re: How do I get UK Spelling to work?
                                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                  I'll add one more comment before signing off, since I'm actually a little ticked at  this point.

                                   

                                  Adobe does not pay us to be here or to defend the software in any way. We volunteer our time and expertise because we want to help others. Notice I said expertise. I know a LOT about InDesign, and a fair amount about other Adobe programs that I use. I doubt I'm any smarter than dissidently.

                                   

                                  I do, however, pay attention to the answer when I ask a question instead of going on a tirade about corporate policy or other nonsense. I've never read the entire Help file (I did start, a few years ago, when asked to critique it for revision, but only made it about halfway through in the alloted time), and I haven't watched the Adobe TV segments or spent time on Lynda.com. I've spent 10 years here, though, on this forum, and worked my way up from a rank novice when I started with InDesign 1 to the primary responder for the last several years. MOST of what I know about ID I know because I figured it out, or because I paid attention to the answer to somebody else's question here. I read EVERY post in this forum for quite a few years, and if a question hadn't already been answered I made a point of trying to figure out what the answer was. I could not have found a better training manual.

                                   

                                  There are a lot of things I find arcane or not implemented as I would have done, but that's irrelevant. You need to accept that this is not custom software, it's written for a very broad, but also very sophisticated audience, and most of the features have been implemented in ways that a majority of users want based on converstions between the engineers and actual users. InDesign was not written in a vacuum and passed out as a take-it-or-leave-it package. The development team is very responsive to well-reasoned arguments for why a feature should be added or changed, or to suggestions that there should be user options. Money continues to talk, however, because Adobe is a publicly traded corporation with responsibilities to its shareholders, so those things that will benefit larger groups of users or generate more sales do take precedence over some of the more specialized (and even not so specialized) requests from people like me, but may of the things I requested over the years actually have appeared, and a lot of things I never thought of, but were suggested by other users, have been added too, and I use them every day.

                                   

                                  There is actually a very good reason that language is implemented the way it is. When used properly it allows you to set the correct language for every single word (if ID supports the correct language) in your document so that the dictionary you chose for that language will be used to verify spelling and hyphenation for the words as they are used. I mentioned before that I wouldn't be surprised if ID recognized an alternate spelling for may words. This is not at all the same thing as 'forcing' you to use americanized forms in UK English, or vice versa, and of course, if you haven't actually set the language properly there's no way that spell check will know.

                                  • 15. Re: How do I get UK Spelling to work?
                                    dissidently Level 1

                                    I stopped reading after "half way through help file"...

                                     

                                    I'm'yet to find that sacred document.

                                     

                                    Back to the search for the mystical, mythical and imaginary.  I suppose.

                                    • 16. Re: How do I get UK Spelling to work?
                                      dissidently Level 1

                                      hilarious that the point of the question is language, and you've failed at both it and comprehension.

                                       

                                      Whatever is set in the Character Panel, does, in fact, over-ride the setting of the document for the currently selected text.

                                       

                                      Over-ride... override, overide.  However you like to spell it, look it up.  Since the other (ironic) part of all this is that we're talking about setting dictionaries.  And language.

                                       

                                      What use is language if we can't agree on what it means?

                                       

                                      http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/override

                                       

                                      If you disagree, that's fine... UNLESS YOU PROVIDE NO ALTERNATIVE... then you're just being contrarian without any proof, justification, point, or over-riding premise through which whatever point you were trying to make might be valid...

                                       

                                      So, do you have an alternative word?  Or are you wrong?

                                      • 18. Re: How do I get UK Spelling to work?
                                        dissidently Level 1

                                        Sydney Morning Herald ?

                                        • 19. Re: How do I get UK Spelling to work?
                                          Steve Werner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          I think it's time to lock this discussion which I'll do now.