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1. Re: .avi files loses audio
Bill Hunt Jul 28, 2013 1:24 PM (in response to SteveH59)Steve,
An AVI file can have many dozens of CODEC's inside, and not all play nice with PrE.
What are the full specs. of this AVI file please? The solution probably lies within those specs.
Good luck,
Hunt
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2. Re: .avi files loses audio
John T Smith Jul 28, 2013 1:26 PM (in response to SteveH59)What kind of device did you use to convert your tape to a digital AVI file?
And, as Hunt asked, what are the file details?
Read Bill Hunt on a file type as WRAPPER http://forums.adobe.com/thread/440037
What is a CODEC... a Primer http://forums.adobe.com/thread/546811
What CODEC is INSIDE that file? http://forums.adobe.com/thread/440037
.
Report back with the codec details of your file, use the programs below... A screen shot works well to SHOW people what you are doing
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/592070?tstart=30
.
For PC http://mediainfo.sourceforge.net/en or http://www.headbands.com/gspot/
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3. Re: .avi files loses audio
A.T. Romano Jul 28, 2013 1:31 PM (in response to SteveH59)SteveH59
What type of .avi file did you save to? AVI is just the file extension which can come with any number of different video and audio codecs.
What did you select as the Premiere Elements 11 project preset for this project?
Would it be possible for you to post a MediaInfo screenshot of this.avi file that you are importing into Premiere Elements 11 Windows and for which you are not getting an audio portion?
http://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo
Please verify..when the file is on the Premiere Elements Timeline is there anything represented on audio 1 track for the file? If there is, does it show a waveform when you toggle the Audio Display Style icon to the left of the name Audio 1?
Thanks.
ATR
Add On...Hunt and John T. Smith, I did not your posts before I submitted mine. Typed too slow.
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4. Re: .avi files loses audio
SteveH59 Jul 28, 2013 1:39 PM (in response to SteveH59)Hello Hunt
Thank you for your reply.
These are the details of my 'test' .avi file (218MB):
VIDEO:
Frame width: 1280
Frame height: 720
Data rate: 15847kbps
Total bitrate: 16039kbps
Frame rate: 29 frames/second
AUDIO:Bit rate: 192kbps
Channels: 2 (stereo)
Audio sample rate: 48 kHz
Thanks again.
Steve
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5. Re: .avi files loses audio
SteveH59 Jul 28, 2013 1:44 PM (in response to John T Smith)Hello John
Thanks for your message and all the links.
I'll take a look at Hunt's article on problems with AVI files.
The software that I used to import the VHS tape through allowed me to save the file in .avi format. Then I was hoping to add transitions, etc in Elements 11.
I haven't been able to get a converter yet.
Steve
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6. Re: .avi files loses audio
John T Smith Jul 28, 2013 1:58 PM (in response to SteveH59)>software that I used to import the VHS tape through allowed me to save the file in .avi format
That is about like saying you went to the grocery store and bought a loaf of bread... without saying what kind of bread (bleached white, whole wheat, oat... etc)
In this case, playing an AVI file is not at all the same as editing that file... to help with editing, we need to know the details
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10. Re: .avi files loses audio
John T Smith Jul 28, 2013 2:20 PM (in response to SteveH59)MJPEG http://forums.adobe.com/thread/730396
Unless I missed you, you didn't say what software you used... so I've added these
- problems with Samsung codec http://forums.adobe.com/thread/699493
- and Fuji http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1015922
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11. Re: .avi files loses audio
SteveH59 Jul 28, 2013 2:22 PM (in response to John T Smith)Hello John
The software is called ShowBiz from ArcSoft.
Thank you kindly for the links.
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12. Re: .avi files loses audio
A.T. Romano Jul 28, 2013 2:46 PM (in response to SteveH59)SteveH59
It would appear that you have MotionJPEG video compression and MP2 audio compression wrapped with that .avi file extension. In spite of its VHS origins, the frame size appears to be 1280 x 720.
MotionJPEG can be a problematic video codec for some, but you present an audio not a video issue. I am not quite sure how you arrived at the export choices for your ShowBiz from ArcSoft. Before some things not to be taken for granted...
a. Open Premiere Elements 11 Windows 7 64 bit, go to File Menu/New/Project and change the project preset to
NTSC
HDV
HDV 720p30
Make sure that you have a check mark next to "Force Selected Project Setting On This Project" before exiting the new project dialog.
b. Then Add Media/Files and Folders/Project Assets and drag your MotionJPEG.avi to the Expert view Timeline.
c. Does the audio file appear in Audio 1 and do you have sound for it?
If that does not work, then I see two avenues...
a. Go back to ShowBiz from ArcSoft and select another export type. What does it offer?
or
b. Take the MotionJPEG.avi into Windows Live Movie Maker and see if you can convert it into a .wmv file that is compatible with Premiere Elements. If you can get it into Windows Live Movie Maker without crashing the program, then we can discuss the details for its export from there.
Those are my thoughts for now. I am not eager to go with MotionJPEG video codec issue. I would rather explore the MP2 side of things...thinking in the direction of mp3 or wav. But if we go the conversion route for the file, the audio as well as the video compression often gets changed in the process.
More later.
ATR
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14. Re: .avi files loses audio
A.T. Romano Jul 28, 2013 3:29 PM (in response to SteveH59)SteveH59
Thanks for the update. Sorry adjusting the project preset had no impact.
How did you come up with the frame size for what you have now, that is, 1280 x 720 16:9? Does that frame size with the MotionJPEG video codec present well in Video 1? Just curious. With the VHS origin, I might have thought that the original was something like 720 x 480 4:3.
We will be looking forward to your results. If you want to discuss the choices (audio and video and file extension) that you have for conversion, please do not hesitate to let us know.
Thanks.
ATR
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15. Re: .avi files loses audio
SteveH59 Jul 28, 2013 3:40 PM (in response to A.T. Romano)Hello ATR
I didn't really determine anything. It's an old Samsung camcorder and the tape was shot in 1995, but the quality of the original video is good - somewhat better than the .avi file in Elements 11. There it looks a little shaky and if you watch carefully some of the colours appear to 'run' on moving objects.
Those dimensions - 1280 x 720 - I just got by right-clicking on the .avi file and going to Properties | Details.
Many thanks for your offer to help.
Steve
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16. Re: .avi files loses audio
Bill Hunt Jul 28, 2013 3:45 PM (in response to A.T. Romano)ATR,
I agree with you on this:
How did you come up with the frame size for what you have now, that is, 1280 x 720 16:9? Does that frame size with the MotionJPEG video codec present well in Video 1? Just curious. With the VHS origin, I might have thought that the original was something like 720 x 480 4:3.
Also, MPEG Audio can be problematic w/ Adobe software, including Premiere (Elements & Pro), After Effects and Photoshop (Extended, or Ps CS 6.
@ Steve,
If possible, can you capture to PCM/WAV Audio in the ArcSoft program? If so, choose 48KHz 16-bit, and that should work fine in PrE.
Also, see ATR's comment on the Frame Size, quoted above. There is nothing to be gained by doing the capture to a higher resolution, than the original, and much to be lost, regarding quality.
I do not know the ArcSoft program, but if it allows you to capture to DV-AVI (a particular type of AVI file, with the DV/DVC CODEC) w/ the above PCM/WAV Audio specs., you will have a file that PrE can Import and edit very well. I would try to stay away from MJPEG, and MPEG Audio, if at all possible.
Good luck, and thank you for the information.
Hunt
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17. Re: .avi files loses audio
A.T. Romano Jul 28, 2013 5:18 PM (in response to SteveH59)Steve
Thanks.
I thought that you had written that the video was of VHS origin, and my thought went to SD 4:3.
What is the format of the footage that you got from the Samsung and later used the ArcSoft to get your MotionJPEG.avi with the MP2 audio which is characterized by 1280 x 720 16:9 at 29.97 progressive frames per second?
Am looking forward to your results with the focus on the audio.
Thanks for following up on the troubleshooting.
ATR
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18. Re: .avi files loses audio
Bill Hunt Jul 28, 2013 6:23 PM (in response to A.T. Romano)ATR,
Initially, the original source was identified as VHS-C, hence 720 x 480 4:3.
I have downloaded a VHS (C) tape
Hunt
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19. Re: .avi files loses audio
A.T. Romano Jul 28, 2013 7:55 PM (in response to Bill Hunt)Hunt,
I saw that also. That is why I ask Steve about this point.
Although this presents as an audio, not video, issue, I like to have all the pieces fall into place.
But, I am sure that Steve will get back to us with more details as well as with the results his video/audio conversion troubleshooting.
ATR
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20. Re: .avi files loses audio
SteveH59 Jul 29, 2013 1:44 PM (in response to A.T. Romano)Hello
Back again.
Yes, it's a VHS (C) movie.
I have tried downloading the movie again to my PC, but the ShowBiz software will not allow me to capture it in PCM/WAV Audio format.
Firstly I saved it in WMV format and when I double-click on the file on my desktop, it looks fine - not as good as the video tape, but acceptable. However, Elements 11 refuses to play it. It does not even appear in the monitor window when I have the clip on the Timeline. There is a video track (which looks empty) and an audio track which looks OK.
Then I saved it in MOV format. In Elements 11, I can see both video and audio tracks and it plays OK although the colours are slightly glaring, but OK.
This clip is only a snippet from a half-hour file and I was wondering that when I come to download the whole file, which export settings are best to use? I would want to edit it in Elements 11 and then save it to my desktop with a view, later, to burning it to a DVD that could be played on a TV DVD player (and not just on a computer).
Thanks again!
Steve
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21. Re: .avi files loses audio
nealeh Jul 29, 2013 2:56 PM (in response to SteveH59)Is it a recently acquired digitizer? There have been so many questions about Arcsoft Showbiz recently I'm guessing they've recently licensed their software to the digitizer manufacturers.
The only manual I can find online for the product is for version 2 (current version is v5). But in the v2 manual the following shows as the export dialog:
If your version has a similar export dialog, try the 'DV' setting. That is ideal for PRE standard definition sources.
[EDIT]
Have found this screenshot from v5. I'd be interested to see what the dropdown options are in the '480P' section for Format and the Encoders:
Cheers,
--
Neale
Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children. -
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23. Re: .avi files loses audio
nealeh Jul 29, 2013 3:15 PM (in response to SteveH59)That's helpful. Let's explore the options available under 'Manufacturer' and 'Format'. Can you post a list of what you have available.
Cheers,
--
Neale
Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children. -
24. Re: .avi files loses audio
A.T. Romano Jul 29, 2013 3:25 PM (in response to SteveH59)Steve,
Thanks for the follow up details.
Could you post the MediaInfo properties readout for the MOV format. That should give us important information on which to base details moving forward. If the starting material was VHS, that would be 720 x 480 4:3. So, it is important to know how those original properties were changed along the way. I would think that you would be best served with NTSC DV Standard.
But you made a major advance getting a format that will give you a video and audio component of the file that you can deal with in Premiere Elements 11. Hopefully a bit of fine tuning may solve the issues.
Do you have any other equipment to digitalize your VHS tape material if it comes to that?
More later.
ATR
Add On...
I just saw your response to Nealeh. Were those the settings that you used for the mov file that had video and audio? If so, the frame size alone would explain the low quality video. I will be watching as we all explore your VHS to digital export settings. Very curious as to what options there are for each of the fields in that screenshot.
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25. Re: .avi files loses audio
SteveH59 Jul 29, 2013 3:36 PM (in response to A.T. Romano)Hello ATR
Thanks for your reply.
These are the MediaInfo properties:
General
Complete name : C:\Users\Steve_Owner\Desktop\MediaInfo\Band_QT.MOV
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt
File size : 30.9 MiB
Duration : 1mn 42s
Overall bit rate : 2 518 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2013-07-29 10:00:10
Tagged date : UTC 2013-07-29 10:00:27
Writing library : Apple QuickTimeVideo
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Baseline@L1.3
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=30
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 1mn 42s
Bit rate : 400 Kbps
Width : 320 pixels
Height : 240 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 15.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.348
Stream size : 4.91 MiB (16%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2013-07-29 10:00:10
Tagged date : UTC 2013-07-29 10:00:27
Color primaries : BT.601 NTSC
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.601Audio
ID : 2
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Format settings, Sign : Unsigned
Codec ID : in24
Duration : 1mn 42s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 2 117 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 26.0 MiB (84%)
Language : EnglishThis is PAL media, ATR, not US/Japan.
I haven't got the Canopus converter yet, but will get one fairly soon.
Steve
Yes, they are the settings used for the MOV file.
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26. Re: .avi files loses audio
A.T. Romano Jul 29, 2013 3:58 PM (in response to SteveH59)SteveH59
That looks like good news, and the 320 x 240 pixels well explains the lesser quality video for this export. I am reading those properties as saying the you worked from the AVCHD video codec and PCM format 2 channel audio all of which had the .mov wrapper.
If you are still working with the present equipment, let us explore all the settings available.
With the VHS 4:3 origin, I would think that you want to aim for frame size
720 x 576 (non square pixels) or its square pixel counterpart of 768 x 576 pixels
in your PAL setup.
But let us see what is available in those fields in your current software's export settings.
That is my current view of your situation.
Thanks.
ATR
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27. Re: .avi files loses audio
SteveH59 Jul 29, 2013 4:08 PM (in response to nealeh)Hello Neale
Under Manufacturer there is only one 'default' entry in the drop-down list: File Format. Under Format I have:
ASF
AVI
MP4
MPEG1
MPEG2
QTMOV
WMV
Thanks for your time.
Steve
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28. Re: .avi files loses audio
SteveH59 Jul 29, 2013 4:15 PM (in response to A.T. Romano)Hello ATR
I have now a short clip again saved in the MOV format but this time set to 'Standard' quality.
Can I post the MediaInfo details to you?
Steve
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29. Re: .avi files loses audio
A.T. Romano Jul 29, 2013 4:21 PM (in response to SteveH59)Steve,
That would be great...similar to how you posted the MediaInfo in your post #9?
What I usually do is use the Snipping Tool of Windows 7 64 bit to make a jpg file of the MediaInfo tree properties readout. Then I post that jpg using the post's camera looking icon (Insert Image). If I cannot get all in one jpg, then I will go for two.
Do you see improved quality in this latest Standard quality .mov file?
Thanks. We will be watching for the information.
ATR
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31. Re: .avi files loses audio
A.T. Romano Jul 29, 2013 4:50 PM (in response to SteveH59)Steve
Looking good.
Major comments. A while back you mentioned about having a PAL setup. The settings that you give for this file are for NTSC setup.
In the NTSC setup, 720 x 480 is the non square pixel version of the square pixel 640 x 480.
In contrast, the PAL setup, 720 x 576 is the non square pixel version of the square pixel 768 x 576.
With the audio, do you have an option to export at the Sampling Rate of 48 kHz (48000 Hz)?
ATR
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32. Re: .avi files loses audio
SteveH59 Jul 29, 2013 5:24 PM (in response to A.T. Romano)Hello ATR
'With the audio, do you have an option to export at the Sampling Rate of 48 kHz (48000 Hz)?' - I will need to check that tomorrow and post back if that's OK.
I noticed that myself. In the MediaInfo details it says 30fps which I can't really understand. The film was shot on a Samsung camcorder bought in the UK on film bought in the UK - wouldn't they be set at 25fps by default? I haven't changed any fps rate anywhere. In addition, in the ShowBiz software, there is a tab which shows 'PAL_B'.
Unless the ShowBiz software changes the properties from PAL to NTSC - is that possible? I was going to ask you about this because when I come to import the MOV file into Elements 11, do I set the Presets as NTSC 30fps or do I force it to accept the PAL settings?
Speak tomorrow.
Thanks again for all your help.
Steve
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33. Re: .avi files loses audio
Bill Hunt Jul 29, 2013 6:40 PM (in response to SteveH59)Some cameras have the options to either shoot NTSC, or PAL. This is usually via the camera's menu settings.
Good luck,
Hunt
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34. Re: .avi files loses audio
A.T. Romano Jul 29, 2013 7:44 PM (in response to SteveH59)Steve
If you can get PAL footage for your .mov fine. If not, and you are left with the NTSC counterpart, here is the plan (grand plan or dud). Let us see
Import your 640 x 480 @ 30 frames per second into Premiere Elements with the NTSC DV Standard project preset (you will probably have to set the project preset yourself manually before you import the file...to do that File Menu/New/Project, change the project preset to NTSC DV Standard, and, before exiting the new project dialog, make sure that you have a check mark next to "Force Selected Project Setting on This Project". Then import your file with Add Media/Project Assets.
In Project Assets, right click the thumbnail for the file there and select Interpret Footage. In the Frame Rate section of the Interpret Footage dialog, dot "Assume this frame rate" and fill in 25.00. Leave the rest as is which should be with Pixel Aspect Ratio = Square Pixels (1.0).
When you are ready to export, give the following a try:
Publish+Share
Computer
QuickTime
have Presets = PAL DV
under the Advanced Button/Video Tab set
Video Codec = H.264
Frame Width = 768 pixels
Frame Height = 576 pixels
Frame Rate = 25 frames per second
Field Type = Progressive
Aspect = Square Pixels (1.0)
For now leave everything else as is.
At playback, check the quality of the video and audio as well as flow of the motion.
We will be watching for your results.
Thank you.
ATR
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35. Re: .avi files loses audio
SteveH59 Jul 30, 2013 1:48 PM (in response to A.T. Romano)Hello ATR
Those settings do just the job. I am pleased with the quality of the clip, so a big thank you.
I can hear the sound (thus resolving the original problem), the colours don't run as before, and feel it is ready to be edited (transitions, etc) in Elements 11.
The was shot using a Sony (not Samsung, sorry) camcorder, the DCR-TRV120E which uses a PAL recording system, so I am still a little perplexed as to why the clip has NTSC standards. Anyway, I preset Elements to NTSC and checked 'Force Selected Project Setting on This Project'.
What I wanted to ask was that given that I am taking this to be a NTSC project, why would I then export it as a PAL (25 frames per second) project? As I say, this is what I have done and things look fine, I just wondered why you would convert it from NTSC to PAL.
Thanks again for all your help.
Steve
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36. Re: .avi files loses audio
A.T. Romano Jul 30, 2013 3:25 PM (in response to SteveH59)Steve,
As far as I have been able to put this PAL vs NTSC business together, these are some of my keys
(depends on whether you talking talking disc or file for computer playback)
a. Disc-wise, NTSC and PAL do not have significance for HD as they do for SD. Yet for HD the frame rates of 29.97/30 (NTSC) and 25 (PAL) still have regional signficance.
b. PAL DVD players will play PAL and NTSC DVD; whereas NTSC players will play only NTSC.
c. It does not seem to matter if PAL or NTSC for computer playback of a file. All the computer players that I have used, play either. It is my understanding that you can play a PAL or NTSC disc with a computer player. The issue often presents when you attempt to play those discs on a non computer player.
ATR
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37. Re: .avi files loses audio
SteveH59 Jul 30, 2013 3:59 PM (in response to A.T. Romano)Thanks for your explanation, ATR.
I think I will go ahead as from tomorrow and download the whole 30 mins VHS (C) file, saving it as a MOV file before working on it in Elements 11 and exporting it to my desktop using the settings you have kindly provided.
Very many thanks again for all your help.
Steve
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38. Re: .avi files loses audio
A.T. Romano Jul 30, 2013 5:36 PM (in response to SteveH59)Steve
Sounds like a good plan.
But still take it as a mini test road until your workflow has proven itself, picking up momentum with each success.
We will be watching for further developments when you have time.
Thanks for staying with the troubleshooting and returning will great follow up.
ATR
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39. Re: .avi files loses audio
SteveH59 Jul 30, 2013 5:47 PM (in response to A.T. Romano)Many thanks to you!
For some reason, I have just tried to burn this 1-2 min miniclip onto a DVD and while I can view the burnt DVD fine on the computer (Win Media Player), it refuses to play on the TV DVD Player.
Just as a test, I imported from my desktop the saved .MOV file back onto the Timeline in Elements 11 (if you can imagine that the completed half-hour version may eventually hold various effects, etc). Then I clicked Publish + Share, chose 'Disk', then 'DVD', changed the Preset from PAL_Widescreen_Dolby to PAL_Dolby and clicked 'Burn'.
I'll try to find out why!
Thanks again for all your time and patience!
Steve













