13 Replies Latest reply on Aug 8, 2013 2:09 AM by lornaimw Branched to a new discussion.

    Broadcast safe??? Animation

    lornaimw Level 1

      Hi all

       

       

      I have an animation that needs to be PAL broadcast safe. I understand luminance is to be max 100 IRE and chroma can be 120 IRE. Please do tell me if I am mistaken.


      Currently a lot of the graphics are showing up unsafe, some blues and greens but mostly yellows. I've I set the effect 'key out broadcast safe' in after effects or premiere, maximum signal amplitude to 100.

       

      I'm slightly struggling with the concept of keying out all unsafe, as if I can have difference levels of luminance than chroma, how can I be having one overall control for both to show what is and isn't safe. So currently I'm missing out on 20 IRE that I could be having for chroma. (I think?!)

       

      As this is an animation and not footage I can fix the graphics direct, but I need to first understand whether applying curves or levels will be best to sort out RGB, or changing other settings in illustrator, or anything else completely.

       

      I attempted applying the brodcast colours filter/ effect to the entire project for colour and luminance and ended up with horrible murky colours and random darker patches. So this really isn't ideal!

       

      I've no experienec in broadcast safe so any help is greatly appreciated!

       

       

       

      Thanks everyone!

        • 1. Re: Broadcast safe??? Animation
          Dave LaRonde Level 6

          Two questions:

          What do you have to deliver: the kind of file and how it will be used?

          Why don't you try using Color Finesse, which comes with AE?  Andrew Devis has a couple of very good totorials on the topic on the Creative COW.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Broadcast safe??? Animation
            lornaimw Level 1

            Thanks for the response, I'll check out Color Finesse!

             

            I'm exporting one as: MPEG2, PAL 25FPS, 720X576 SD 16:9 anamorphic, 8mbps constant.

            and also with these settings : MPEG2, PAL 25FPS, 720X576 SD 16:9 anamorphic, 50mbps constant.

             

            4:2:2 Chroma subsampling

             

            It will be UK broadcast, so PAL/ UK standards need to be adhered to.

             

             

            Any info is really appreciated, I am so lost in RGB and IRE changes!

             

            Many thanks

            • 3. Re: Broadcast safe??? Animation
              lornaimw Level 1

              Also, looking at color finesse, this could be the application that I need to use, however I'm still very confused as to what I'm really trying to achieve with these colour and light levels / luma and chroma!

               

              Terribly sorry for how green I am with this.

              • 4. Re: Broadcast safe??? Animation
                lornaimw Level 1

                P.S Would a way of changing the graphics direct in illustrator be better than using what I pressume is like a procamp by doing it in color finesse? Sorry for making multiple replies!

                • 5. Re: Broadcast safe??? Animation
                  Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

                  You could apply the IEC 601 color profile to your comp viewer and see how it looks, then use the same profile on rendr output/ as an adjustment layer with the Color Profile Converter effect. Kinda hacky, but can fix many of these issues without further ado. Also check pertinent tutorials like Aharon Rabinowitz' old one on creativeCOW on how to use the various adjustments without causing excessive color issues...

                   

                  Mylenium

                  • 6. Re: Broadcast safe??? Animation
                    Bob Currier Level 3

                    Using Color Finesse, all you need to do is apply CF, enable the Limiter function, and then within the Limiter tab select PAL. Render your video and you'll be good to go.

                     

                    Color Finesse will take care of making sure the luma values are limited, and chroma values are also kept within a "legal" range. Using the PAL preset those limits are set to match BBC recommendations.

                     

                    People make legalizing of video way too complicated. Except in some unusual edge cases, it's nothing more than some straightforward math that the Color Finesse plug-in handles for you.

                     

                    Bob Currier

                    Synthetic Aperture

                    • 7. Re: Broadcast safe??? Animation
                      lornaimw Level 1

                      Hi Bob

                       

                      Thank you very much for your advice. I've applied colour finesse to my layers in After effects and selected enable limiter and video system as PAL.


                      Do I leave all the other settings as standard? I'm using color finesse 3 LE.

                       

                      Settings are at:

                       

                      Enable limiter: ticked

                      Chroma max 110

                      Chroma min -30

                      Luma hard clip 120

                      Enable soft clip: unticked

                      Knee level 90

                      White level 100

                      Max level 130

                      Limit method: Smart limit

                      Video system: PAL

                      Show limiter preview: unticked

                       

                      When I apply this to my layers it doesn't change the way they look yet, am I doing something wrong at this stage?

                       

                      I'd also like to check to see how it's working, like you can with broadcast colours, key out safe or unsafe to see the problem areas... is this what the show limiter preview is for? My aim is to get colours PAL broadcast safe without being disgusting murky tones.

                       

                       

                      I've also been struggling with the thought/ mechanics behind keying out safe or unsafe with the broadcast colours effect, as you can only set it to one number, but luma and chroma can be at different levels, so surely you can't use one effect at one number to test for the success of both things?

                       

                      Thanks all for your help with this issue, deeply appreciated it!

                       

                      Lorna

                      • 8. Re: Broadcast safe??? Animation
                        Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        If it truly didn't change, perhaps your product is already within the legal limits.

                        • 9. Re: Broadcast safe??? Animation
                          lornaimw Level 1

                          Hi Szalam,


                          Many thanks for taking the time to reply.

                           

                          I really couldn't see a change when turning the fx button on and off (giving it time to render the changes)

                           

                           

                          Do you know a way that I can check this, like the broadcast colours effect to see what is safe or unsafe? I'm finding the broadcast colours effect isn't helping know what is legal and what isn't as I can only check one IRE level, not two.

                           

                          Thanks!

                          • 10. Re: Broadcast safe??? Animation
                            Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            _lornaw_ wrote:

                             

                            I really couldn't see a change when turning the fx button on and off (giving it time to render the changes)

                            Then it sounds like you designed your product well. The settings that Bob Currier suggested to you were designed to be within the BBC's requirements. The BBC are the pickiest I know of when it comes to image quality. If you want to test it to be sure it's working, put in a solid that's outside the legal limit and see what the difference is. Move your mouse over the image and watch the info panel, you should see all the levels brought into spec.

                            1 person found this helpful
                            • 11. Re: Broadcast safe??? Animation
                              Bob Currier Level 3

                              As others have said, if it didn't change then you were probably already "legal." That's not surprising.

                               

                              To see the limiting at work, create some small areas of fully saturated colors, particularly pure yellow (RGB=255,255,0), cyan (RGB=0,255,255), red (RGB=255,0,0), and blue (RGB=0,0,255). The yellow and cyan cause the signal to go "too high" and will be brought down by the limiter. The blue and yellow go "too low" and will be brought up a bit by the limiter. Select the limiter preview and areas that are being limited will turn black.

                               

                              If you are working in an 8- or 16-bit project you won't see the luma limiter in action at the default settings as the maximum value in an 8- or 16-bit project is 100%. In a float project you can create an area where the luma is greater than 110% (RGB > 1.1, 1.1, 1.1) and see the luma limiter working. Or temporarily drag the luma hard clip slider down to see it working. Just remember to set it back.

                               

                              Another good way to see what is happening is to open the full Color Finesse UI and watch the waveform monitor as you toggle the limiter on and off. It's even clearer if you select the YC composite waveform display.

                               

                              The only setting I would normally change from the defaults would be to enable Soft Clip. Otherwise leave them at the default unless you hear back from QC that there is a problem.

                               

                              Bob Currier

                              Synthetic Aperture

                              1 person found this helpful
                              • 12. Re: Broadcast safe??? Animation
                                lornaimw Level 1

                                Hi Bob

                                 

                                Thanks so much for all your help. I have gone down this route and tested as much as possible so just sending it off and awaiting a reply now.

                                 

                                Will post back with the response, if this is all you need to do then more people need to know about it!!

                                 

                                Thanks again all

                                • 13. Re: Broadcast safe??? Animation
                                  lornaimw Level 1

                                  Good news

                                   

                                  The animation was QC'd and everything was fine, so thank you for all your help, and I hope in the future people might find this thread and save themselves a lot of time, Color Finesse is the way to go!

                                   

                                  Thank you so much!