8 Replies Latest reply on Aug 4, 2013 8:39 PM by fred_alain

    Adobe Premiere and professional captions workflow for Broadcasters

    fred_alain

      Adobe Premiere and professional captions workflow for Broadcasters

      Sette inc is creating, working, exporting and transcoding captions since years. We got high expectation when seeing the new captions features in premiere CC  (CC that also means Closed Captions !), but Adobe just scratch the surface of them…

       

      I made a complete diagram of the workflow here

      http://fr.scribd.com/doc/156809361/Closed-Captions-Workflow

       

      GUI

      Do not call the button for displaying captions “caption display cea 608”, it’s confusing.

      This is a simple computer overlay of text, nothing related to eia-608 (which is required for SDI output).

       

       

      Export

      You have to always use “smart render” on export: we do *not* want to recompress and lost quality and time. This is especially true when just adding the SCC to a video: we need to just add the captions data, not recoding anything.

      Besides, make “smart render” default choice (checked box), especially when “same as timeline” is used.

      Also, when captions are present on the timeline, the DEFAULT export choice must include captions (embedded if possible, sidecar otherwise).

       

      Why ONLY QuickTime is supported with embedded captions?

      You need, at least, to support MXF with the dedicated 436M track (XDCAM and P2  op1a).

       

      Import and re-import

      Do not waste long time to check full captions presence into the file.

      Just display them (on the timeline track and overlay) when I hit play (so the import is instantaneous).

      You can add a preference for this feature (“display captions only on playback”).

      This is same behaviour as audio peak generation (display after play when peak are disabled).

      Remember that Premiere is not a captions editor, but rather a QC check of them.

       

      Please detect if there is a sidecard caption file into the folder, and then AUTOMATICALLY import it into project and the timeline.

       

      You need to fully support MXF with 436M track, not displaying them a red frame as today. Same with full VANC support.

       

      Playout

      We do need need full VANC support on playout (VITC, Closed Captions 608, AFD code, Dolby VANC)

      I’ve contacted AJA and BMD about this.

      Adobe had to collaborate with 3rd party so that guess become a realtity.

       

      Questions :

      - what’s the shortcut for “new sequence from clip” ?

      - in this new sequence, how to have BY DEFAULT : only 2 video tracks, 12 audio tracks, and the video track 2 with adjusted heigh? And keep the exact layout I want? And this what ever number of audio track are present into the file ?

      Is there a way to automatically load a custom track preset ?

      - how to have the audio mixer retain my mix, on each new sequence? It’s so annoying to have pan left and right on all audio channels each time…

       

      Know issues:

      - Caption doesn’t show all time automatically, we need to disable and re-enable them so they can be displayed.

        • 1. Re: Adobe Premiere and professional captions workflow for Broadcasters
          Jim_Simon Level 8

          - what’s the shortcut for “new sequence from clip” ?

           

          The shortcut isn't set by default, you can make one.

           

           

          - in this new sequence, how to have BY DEFAULT : only 2 video tracks, 12 audio tracks

           

          You can do that by creating your own custom sequence preset, but New Sequence from Clip isn't likely to ever choose it.

           

           

           

          in this new sequence, how to have BY DEFAULT the video track 2 with adjusted heigh?

           

          I don't know if that can be done, but I'd like the feature myself.  I'd love to have every new sequence open up with V1 and A1 expanded by default.

           

           

          how to have the audio mixer retain my mix, on each new sequence?

           

          You can't.

          • 2. Re: Adobe Premiere and professional captions workflow for Broadcasters
            Mark Mapes Adobe Employee

             

            Do not call the button for displaying captions “caption display cea 608”, it’s confusing.

             

            The button is called "Closed Captioning Display." What comes after the colon reflects the caption display settings. As shown in this screenshot, if it's set to Teletext Level 2, then that's what the tooltip will show. This information is for the convenience of users who are working with multiple types of caption streams in the same project.

            CCDisplay_Settings_Merged&Scaled.jpg

             

            You have to always use “smart render” on export: we do *not* want to recompress and lost quality and time.

             

            Smart rendering is completely independent of closed captioning. If the particulars of your project and export settings allow smart rendering, then you should be able to take advantage of this feature and also write a caption sidecar. Please let us know if you encounter problems smart rendering a project that  contains captions.

             

             

            Why ONLY QuickTime is supported with embedded captions?

            You need, at least, to support MXF with the dedicated 436M track (XDCAM and P2  op1a).

            ...

            Please detect if there is a sidecard caption file into the folder, and then AUTOMATICALLY import it into project and the timeline.

             

            Why? Because that's as far as we got for the CC release. Please bear in mind that our enhancements to the closed captions constitute a substantial undertaking, and it is a work in progress.

             

             

            Caption doesn’t show all time automatically, we need to disable and re-enable them so they can be displayed.

             

            If I understand what you're referring to--and I'm not sure I do--I think it's an issue that was fixed in the 7.0.1 update. Have you installed the update?

            • 3. Re: Adobe Premiere and professional captions workflow for Broadcasters
              sabrisk

              thank you. i'm searched this subject

              • 4. Re: Adobe Premiere and professional captions workflow for Broadcasters
                fred_alain Level 1

                hello!

                 

                thanks adobe to hear your customers

                 

                The button is called "Closed Captioning Display."

                -> i customized the timeline viewer so that i got a caption button.

                "closed captioning display" name by itself is OK, but not the tooltip "teletext" or "eia-608".. because what you refer to is only available on SDI output.

                i understand that you want people to choose which CC number they want (from 1 to 4).

                 

                -> the bug is that even is my button is active, next time i will import a video with scc in the timeline, captions will not be displayed.

                and yes i got 7.0.1

                 

                 

                -> for the layout full configuration, even with all the efforts you made into 7.0 version, i can't do what i need.

                i guess that there is now way to create my "full featured" project and make it the

                default ?

                beside this, each time i create a "new timeline from clip" then most of my customization is gone... this is weird.

                 

                 

                Smart rendering is completely independent of closed captioning

                not sure, because if each time i want to create video file with embeded captions i've to make a full render, then i can drop directly Premiere for what we want to achieve.

                you understand that embeded captions is the only powerfull solution we like. sidecar option is much less convenient.

                 

                -> for MXF support. i hope and guess that you plan to support it.

                 

                -> so i make a quick test run on our Mac station :

                - drop in a MOV prores movie (1h30)

                - drop in the SCC

                - make a new sequence from clip

                - put the caption on top

                - re activate the caption button

                - try to export with embedded caption

                * 1st very annyoing bug : using "match sequence settings" is always wrong. i mean, it suggest to generate a MXF dnxhd, even if it writes that the source is MOV!. and even when the video match, the audio is always wrong : locked at 16bit, even is source is 24bit.

                * 2nd  bug : audio track are limited to stereo only. do you know that broadcasters like us use up to 16 audio tracks PCM? like on a high end VTR.... if the movie major like Disney give us a MOV file with 8, 12, or 16 audio tracks, we have to output the same

                * 3rd bug : as i explained about "smart render". there is no way to know if smart render is active or not, in this case i guess it was off.

                => the estimated time to export a 1h30 movie is about 40min; at a top speed of 30MB/s write on our RAID0 disk (1CPU with 6 cores, 400% usage).

                => we are far far away of what we need to do : a simple straigforward speedy way to export a "cloned" source file, but with embedded captions.

                 

                so i don't know if we have to put effort and hope in Premiere...

                • 5. Re: Adobe Premiere and professional captions workflow for Broadcasters
                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                  there is no way to know if smart render is active or not

                   

                  There is a checkbox in the export settings dialog for formats that support the feature.

                  • 6. Re: Adobe Premiere and professional captions workflow for Broadcasters
                    fred_alain Level 1

                    Hello Jim.

                    sorry that's not a good way. i mean, even if i checked the box, i don't know if smart render will be active or not.

                    see adobe blog

                    http://blogs.adobe.com/kevinmonahan/2012/10/11/smart-rendering-in-premiere-pro-cs6-6-0-1-a nd-later/

                    and the question "Okay, I’m trying to smart render an XDCAM EX clip out to OP1A, and why isn’t it smart rendering?"

                     

                    so if you really want make it usefull and clever

                    1) solve the issue of the "matching sequence" output

                    2) automatically check the box when avaible

                    2a) i will be so nice to explain, when it is not available, WHY

                    3) while the render is active, indicate that smart render is really on or off

                    4) please do this for ALL codec, whatever it is (dv, mpeg2, prores, dnxhd, h264, ...)

                     

                    people really want something that tell what happen, and something as powerfull as smart rending should be better presented.

                    • 7. Re: Adobe Premiere and professional captions workflow for Broadcasters
                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                      even if i checked the box, i don't know if smart render will be active or not.

                       

                      It will be when it can be.

                       

                      I think the issue here is that PP isn't necessarily designed to just add the Closed Captions to a file, without changing anything else.  I'm not saying it can't do that under the right conditions, I'm just saying it wasn't designed with that single purpose in mind, it doesn't make that job as easy as you seem to want it.  This is probably because the overwhelming majority of people adding Closed Captions in Premiere Pro are also creating the program the captions are being added to.  They're not just opening a file, adding captions and resaving.  Using PP for that is a bit like using the space shuttle to get to your neighbor's house 50 feet away.

                       

                      Their must be simpler tools out there whose purpose is to just add the captions to a file.

                      • 8. Re: Adobe Premiere and professional captions workflow for Broadcasters
                        fred_alain Level 1

                        hello Simon.

                        if you know a tools that permit too

                        - remap audio

                        - add external audio from files

                        - add captions on a separate track

                        - playback and validate that they're in sync

                        - enable to re read file with embedded captions

                        - (bonus) playout in SDI with all vanc (captions, afd, dolby vanc,...)

                        - export this as MXF with embedded captions without render

                        => this mean, use a timeline.

                         

                        then please name it

                         

                        premiere can do that if you improve it. perharps avid media composer/ i've to try it.

                        i've tested and reject sony vegas, that handle captions MXF much better than premiere, but bad audio... too complex to export.

                         

                        chears