6 Replies Latest reply: Aug 18, 2013 10:30 AM by DMH79 RSS

    ProRes files (via FCP's Log & Transfer) vs. ProRes files (via Adobe Prelude) in Premiere Pro CC/CS6

    DMH79 Community Member

      I noticed that the video clips that I transcoded to ProRes (HQ, 422, or Proxy) using FCP7's Log & Transfer would eventually start stalling and failing to load properly in the Source Window when you do the VERY REPEATABLE steps below (I've been able to successfully reproduce the issue below on two separate iMac computers (older 2007 iMac & a maxed out 2011 iMac) running 10.6.8 and 10.8.4 respectively using various scratch drives. I tested it on both Premiere Pro CC and CS6 using ProRes HQ, 422 or ProRes Proxy clips with the same results, every time).  HOWEVER, the same clips transcoded to the same ProRes format (HQ, 422, or Proxy) using Prelude do NOT have the issues below... which leads me to these three questions:

       

      1) Why exactly do the ProRes files transcoded in FCP react differently (see how below) than the ones transcoded in Adobe Prelude, even though they are the same size, bitrate, etc.?


      2) Why do the clips trancoded to ProRes using Log & Transfer in FCP generate Peak files when brought into Premiere, whereas Prelude's transcoded clips do not?


      3) Why when I click on "properties" on a ProRes clip from Prelude it shows "Quality = Most (5.00)" but the ProRes clips from FCP's transcode show as "Quality = Normal (3.00)" ...the file sizes are the same, and the bitrate is basically the same and I can't see any real differences upon close examination...so what's the difference and why are Prelude's trancodes listed as a higher quality?


       

      The issue with ProRes (HQ, 422, Proxy) files via FCP's Log & Tranfer:

       

      I tested about 10 different projects (all containing 60+ ProRes HQ, 422 or Proxy video clips transcoded in FCP) and each had the same result which, after doing the steps below resulted in this "Media Pending" message:

      Screen Shot 2013-07-30 at 4.57.55 PM.png

       

      Here's the steps to reproduce this issue:

       

      1) Start a project and bring in at least 60+ different ProRes (HQ, 422 or Proxy) video clips.

      2) Double-Click on each different clip in the Program Window so it opens in the Source Window and COUNT as you go.

      3) AFTER you've double-clicked and opened up at least 20 different clips in the source window, hit play on the next clip. Then, stop it.

      4) Continue on and once you've reached a total of 52 clips, it will suddenly hang and show the yellow message above!

      5) You can either wait out the message which can take up to 15 seconds, or you can immediately scrub through the clip manually. But it won't play if you hit play until that message goes away. Annoying!

      ****6) This will continue to plague several clips following that 52nd clip making working with ProRes422 footage frustrating and slow at times.****

       

      This slows down the editing process considerably having to wait for the "Media Pending" message to go away. Or having to manually scrub through those clips that lock on "Media Pending" so the message goes away. This issue did not occur when I worked with other formats like native AVCHD (.mts) files or ProRes files transcoded in Prelude. Just the ones transcoded in FCP. See my 3 questions above...

        • 1. Re: ProRes files (via FCP's Log & Transfer) vs. ProRes files (via Adobe Prelude) in Premiere Pro CC/CS6
          Fuzzy Barsik Community Member

          On completely unrelated topic: have you ever cleaned your Media Cache Database manually and where is it located?

          • 2. Re: ProRes files (via FCP's Log & Transfer) vs. ProRes files (via Adobe Prelude) in Premiere Pro CC/CS6
            DMH79 Community Member

            Hi Fuzzy - in short, no. Well, maybe I cleaned it manually once but it's probably time again. According to my Preferences, the Media Cache Database is located in its default location (library/application support/adobe/common/) but when I go there right now, I don't see any media cache folder or files. Seems odd. My "media cache files" I have check marked to "Save Media Cache files next to originals when possible".  Why do you ask?

            • 3. Re: ProRes files (via FCP's Log & Transfer) vs. ProRes files (via Adobe Prelude) in Premiere Pro CC/CS6
              Fuzzy Barsik Community Member

              I ask because 'Media Pending' placeholder normally indicates the delay in communication with Media Cache Database. PrPro doesn't clean Media Cache Database entries and cache files when you finish your project and switch to another one, in the end it may bloat enormously, eating up your disk space and making difficulties for rapid access to cache files. Deleting all files manually from both Media Cache and Media Cache Files folders, which are hidden by default, and rebuilding Media Cache Database from scratch on PrPro restart may solve your issue with the delay.

               

              It can't explain the difference between Quality flag values though.

              • 4. Re: ProRes files (via FCP's Log & Transfer) vs. ProRes files (via Adobe Prelude) in Premiere Pro CC/CS6
                DMH79 Community Member

                Fuzzy Barsik wrote:

                Deleting all files manually from both Media Cache and Media Cache Files folders, which are hidden by default, and rebuilding Media Cache Database from scratch on PrPro restart may solve your issue with the delay.

                 

                It can't explain the difference between Quality flag values though.

                 

                Deleting the files (which were hidden in OSX 10.8.4) did not solve the issue with the delay. I manually deleted all files and even unchecked the "save next to originals" box just to see if that had any effect but the issue still pops up with ProRes files trancoded using FCP. 

                 

                On the bright side, it was probably time to do that cleaning. My "Media Cache" folder had 44.4 MB of files (probably because they were always mostly saved next to the originals in my scratch drive), BUT what I'm assuming is the database (the Media Cache Files folder) had 103.85 GB of files! And I remember cleaning several months ago. I have the space, but it's nice to have more space now.

                 

                Sadly, the issue remains and so I'm back to my original 3 questions above in my first post in red...

                • 5. Re: ProRes files (via FCP's Log & Transfer) vs. ProRes files (via Adobe Prelude) in Premiere Pro CC/CS6
                  Fuzzy Barsik Community Member
                  My "Media Cache" folder had 44.4 MB of files (probably because they were always mostly saved next to the originals in my scratch drive)

                  Nope, because Media Cache folder contains small XML files, Media Cache Database entries. Moreover, you can't save those XML indexes next to original - this option exists for cache files only.

                  Sadly, the issue remains and so I'm back to my original 3 questions above in my first post in red...

                  Well, that's beyond my current expertise: I'm neither on CC/CS6 nor on a Mac.

                  • 6. Re: ProRes files (via FCP's Log & Transfer) vs. ProRes files (via Adobe Prelude) in Premiere Pro CC/CS6
                    DMH79 Community Member

                    Quick update after numerous tests using various iMacs and Macbook Pro's with various scratch drives and GPU's (some GPU's supported, some not supported)...

                     

                    The three questions in red in the original post remain a mystery to me.

                     

                    If I follow the steps listed in the original post regarding the yellow "Media Pending" (listed after the media pending image in that first post) when using ProRes clips from FCP, the "media pending" issue occurs regardless of scratch drive used or whether the mac GPU was supported or not (no windows computers tested). If you switch to "Software Only" this specific issue still occurs. Only with Prelude's ProRes clips does the issue not occur (or at the very least it occurs FAR less often).

                     

                    Also, I discovered another issue that isn't directly related to ProRes as well, but more related to GPU accleration, the use of effects like Warp Stabilizer, and SAVING a project:

                     

                    1) If you have two sequences open each with numerous clips and you add warp stabilizer to several of the clips in each sequence the render bar will initially go red but as each clip is stabilized, the red bar turns to yellow. That's all normal. BUT if you then hit "save", the next time you toggle between the two sequences, the render bar will turn red again and PPro CC will lock up for a period of 15-20 secs or so before it turns back yellow again and you can play and edit clips like normal...or at least until the next time the project saves (with auto-save this becomes a big pain). With "Software Only" selected for GPU settings this issue does not occur.

                     

                    strange.