10 Replies Latest reply on Feb 6, 2014 7:37 PM by E Diane King

    Fonts and InDesign in Windows

    E Diane King Level 2

      In our workflow, we have a few users who are doing design work on Windows installations of IinDesign CS6 (2 in WIndows 7 and 2 in Windows 8).  On all four systems, we have noticed that when we open files from packaged folders that contain the Document Fonts folder, that InDesign slows to an excrutiating crawl, which makes working on the document near impossible. We've narrowed down this behavior to the AdobeFnt14.lst file that seems to be a result of InDesign opening the file using the fonts in that folder without being told to. Deleting that file will temporarily fix the problem, but InDesign recreates it when you open the corresponding document and then you have to delete it again.

       

      We use Universal Type Cient for our font manager, but as far as I know, we didn't install any font auto activation plugins.

       

      Other than deleting the font folder, we've not been able to figure out how to stop ID from trying to automatically load the fonts. We'd love to just turn that "feature" off so that we don't have the hassle. I'd rather have fonts missing and turn them on using our font manager, than have ID slow to an impossible crawl whenever we open archived files. Does anyone know how to stop ID from automatically loading fonts from a document fonts folder?

        • 1. Re: Fonts and InDesign in Windows
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          You don't have to delete the folder, just rename it to stop ID from loading the fonts -- it's a built-in  "feature" that works only with a Document Fonts folder, so doing anything to the name will kill it. I think Pikory actually posted a script to do this this morning, or yesterday.

          • 2. Re: Fonts and InDesign in Windows
            Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

            The reason for the feature of using the fonts in the Document Fonts subdirectory is that it is about the only way that one can guarantee that the receiver of the packaged document uses the exact same font as the person who originally created, edited, and packaged the document and its assets. Do you have any idea how many fonts are out there with the name Helvetica and that have different character sets, font metrics, and encodings? For fonts referenced in an InDesign document, fonts in the Document Fonts subdirectory have absolute priority over any fonts with the same name otherwise installed on the user's system. In reality, this is the first time I have personally heard of someone wanting the option to use other fonts (and possibly cause relayout, etc.)!

             

            Having used InDesign extensively under Windows with may packaged documents with a Document Fonts directory, I have never experienced any sluggishness or slowdown due to the AdobeFnt##.lst file or the existence of that directory. I personally use no third party font managers on my system; perhaps the “Universal Type Client” that you mention as your “font manager” is the problem? Unless such a third party font manager has a plug-in for the specific version of InDesign, generally such font managers do not work well with InDesign (or for that matter any Adobe application) since Adobe applications do not use standard Windows font enumeration. What happens if you try deactivating or uninstalling “Universal Type Client?”

             

                      - Dov

            • 3. Re: Fonts and InDesign in Windows
              Pickory Level 3

              Hello E Diane King,

               

              There was a recent thread on just this.

               

              http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1095466?tstart=60

               

              I thnk this is only an option if you are sure all your users are using exactly the same fonts.

               

              Please hear what Dov Isacs says.

               

              P.

               

              Edited to say, sorry Peter, some how I landed straight into Dov's post. Too quick with my new mouse.

              • 4. Re: Fonts and InDesign in Windows
                BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                UTC is the client for Universal Type Server, Extensis' font server

                product. It's updated regularly and Extensis, IME, has very good

                support. I've been using Suitcase Fusion 5 with InDesign CC since it was

                released a few weeks back with no ill effects on Windows 8 and OX 10.8.43

                 

                The only time you know it's there is when opening a file, it takes a few

                seconds to activate the fonts.

                • 5. Re: Fonts and InDesign in Windows
                  E Diane King Level 2

                  Unfortunately, as a workgroup, we require the use of Universal Type Client. We have a 10-user license to Adobe Font Folio, and we have more than 10 people that regularly need access it. We use  server font management software to regulate the licenses so that there are never more than 10 people using a particular font. The Universal Type Client and server workflow is the only way to successfully manage those licenses.

                   

                  In order for me to be able to work, I have to have Universal Type Client on my computer to turn on the fonts I need. I believe the sluggishness may have something to do with server use, not Universal Type Client. We can access files in local packaged folders without much slow down but when they are on the server, the slow down is seconds to minutes and simply impractical.

                   

                  On my previous Windows 7 laptop (on which I did not have the UTC installed), I could replicate the sluggish behavior by opening files on the server (though the sluggishness I experienced was not as bad), so I'm pretty sure that it is not necessarily the presence of UTC that causes the problem.

                   

                  The fact that there are other people having the issue and the common denominator is the Document Fonts folder and InDesign opening fonts on Windows computers, I'd say that maybe ID should have the option to turn that feature off. I don't really need it because I'm opening files that I have the fonts for because they are our workgroup files packaged for archive purposes.

                  • 6. Re: Fonts and InDesign in Windows
                    E Diane King Level 2

                    Thanks for the link to the thread. I went looking for it after Peter mentioned the script but could not find it.  I will give the script a try and if it works, pass it on to my co-workers on Windows.

                     

                    I just wish there was some way to shut off the "feature" that causes ID to try and open those fonts. That would be a permanent solution that would have absolutely no impact on my workflow. We are all using the same pool of fonts and if we want the font, we'll turn it on in our font manager. The only reason we package the fonts is so that they are there for archival purposes.

                     

                    I can't help but wonder if the slow down is caused by ID trying to activate fonts that are already turned on in the manager . . .

                    • 7. Re: Fonts and InDesign in Windows
                      John Hawkinson Level 5

                      I just wish there was some way to shut off the "feature" that causes ID to try and open those fonts. That would be a permanent solution that would have absolutely no impact on my workflow. We are all using the same pool of fonts and if we want the font, we'll turn it on in our font manager. The only reason we package the fonts is so that they are there for archival purposes.

                      Well, anything is possible.

                       

                      If one searches the InDesign binaries, there are only two modules that appear to contain the string "Document fonts":  Font Manager and Package and Preflight.

                       

                      It seems safe to assume the latter is for packaging them, so the former is what reads them.

                      (I suppose under Windows its probably FONTMANAGER.RPLN or something).

                      You could try removing that plugin, but I suspect it is probably required for something else...

                       

                      But just open it up in your favorite binary/hex editor (make a copy first!!), search for Document fonts, and change it to something that's the same length. Like "Document xonts."

                      I dunno what to editor to recommend. Pick something from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_hex_editors ?

                       

                      Might not work, but I bet it will.

                      • 8. Re: Fonts and InDesign in Windows
                        Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

                        Ms. King,

                         

                        With regards to your statement:

                         

                        E Diane King wrote:

                         

                        Unfortunately, as a workgroup, we require the use of Universal Type Client. We have a 10-user license to Adobe Font Folio, and we have more than 10 people that regularly need access it. We use  server font management software to regulate the licenses so that there are never more than 10 people using a particular font. The Universal Type Client and server workflow is the only way to successfully manage those licenses.

                         

                        Please be advised that your usage of the 10-user license for Adobe Font Folio is not in compliance with the terms of EULA (End User License Agreement) for that product:

                         

                        2.3 Server Use. You may install one copy of the Software on one Computer file server within your Internal Network for the purpose of using the Software through commands, data or instructions (e.g., scripts) from another Computer within the same Internal Network, provided that the total number of users (not the concurrent number of users) that are permitted to use the Software on such Computer file server does not exceed the Permitted Number. No other network use is permitted, including, but not limited to use of the Software, either directly or through commands, data or instructions, from or to a Computer not part of your Internal Network, for Internet or web hosting services or by any user not licensed to use this copy of the Software under a valid license from Adobe; …

                         

                        It would appear that your organization is making an effort to be in compliance with the licensing terms, but unfortunately, your comapny's interpretation of the license is incorrect. Please pass this information along to your system administrator. Thank you!

                         

                                  - Dov

                        • 9. Re: Fonts and InDesign in Windows
                          Thomas Phinney Level 3

                          > Unless such a third party font manager has a plug-in for the specific version of InDesign

                           

                          Which Universal Type Client does for InDesign CS6.

                          • 10. Re: Fonts and InDesign in Windows
                            E Diane King Level 2

                            Just want to revisit this threat because the Document Fonts folder is still a major frustration in all of our lives. We have corrected our font license issue and all users now have the fonts on our individual computers per our license, and most of us are no longer using any kind of font manager at all. We just install the fonts when we're using them and uninstall them when we're done.

                             

                            However, the excrutiatingly slow behavior of ID when we accidentally open a file from a packaged folder is still a HUGE frustration in all the WIndows users' workflows. The Mac users have no problem, but all of the Windows users HATE, HATE, HATE, HATE it!!!!

                             

                            It doesn't even have to be the document we're working on. If we open a packaged file to grab something off of it to use in another file, it slows all text editing down in every open document, UNTIL you close the offending file.  And closing the offending file can be a test in patience because you have to select the tab, wait a couple minutes, hit the little "x" to close it, and wait a few more minutes for it to finally ask you if want to save (if you've made changes). All because you forgot to rename the fonts folder before you opened the file.  [It might actually be several seconds, but it feels like minutes, when all you wanted to do was change one word in a text block and ID practically locks up for a small eternity.]

                             

                            Since some of you say you work in a Windows environment and have not seen this issue, I wonder if it's a server issue? If so, that doesn't make it any less of a bug. It appears that ID is becoming increasingly difficult to work with in a network evironment (See the IC crash bug that has plagued ID for some time, which may or may not be tied to a network compatibility problem).

                             

                            I've typed this whole thing while waiting to close an offending document. I'll create a desktop capture if everyone wants to experience my annoyance firsthand. I think you'll be horrified.