17 Replies Latest reply: Aug 6, 2013 4:03 AM by BKKDon RSS

    LR 5.2RC Introducing CA's that weren't there before

    BKKDon Community Member

      Hi,

       

      At this point in time I beleive that LR RC5.2 is introducing CA's as they now appear where they didn't before.

       

      I noticed there were a couple of other threads about Lens Corrections and now I have just noticed that there are CA's (Purple Fringing) appearing in high contrast areas SINCE the 5.2RC. The Camera/Lens is a pretty common combination of the Canon EOS Mark III and the EF24-105mm f4L IS USM lens.

       

      Haven't had any previous problems with this lens on either the Mark II or the Mark III but now I can go back and see there is CA's appearing.

       

      Please note that I tested these images with other RAW processors and there were no CA's.

       

      CAs Introduced.jpg

      Don.

        • 1. Re: LR 5.2RC Introducing CA's that weren't there before
          JimHess CommunityMVP

          Lightroom cannot "cause" this to happen. My suspicions are that you are just noticing what was there before, or else Lightroom's display has become more accurate. However, that's just my opinion.

          • 2. Re: LR 5.2RC Introducing CA's that weren't there before
            BKKDon Community Member

            Hi,

             

            Understand what you are saying but now, for those that are showing CA's, I need to change the defringe amount from 0 to 5 and it is OK. Rembering these are images I haven't had problems with before.

             

            Don.

            • 3. Re: LR 5.2RC Introducing CA's that weren't there before
              ssprengel CommunityMVP

              The CA you’re talking about, the purple fringing next to blown-out areas, is not something LR corrects with its Auto-CA controls but it might become more or less visible by other things that are happening.  It is what the Defringing controls are designed to help with, although those can do things to other parts of an image that also contain the same purple color.

               

              Can you provide a couple screenshots from LR5.2 RC and LR 5.0 or LR 4.x to show what is different in what you see when viewing the same image?

               

              Can you provide a sample DNG of you raw file with its embedded metadata updated to your current settings, for experimenting with in LR 4.x and LR 5.2RC?

              • 4. Re: LR 5.2RC Introducing CA's that weren't there before
                BKKDon Community Member

                Hi,

                 

                Just reverted to V5 and it seems that Camera Raw v8.1.0.43 defaulted to a Defringe Amount of +2 and Purple Hue of 22/42 with files from a Canon EOS 5D Mark III.

                 

                The current release of camera raw i.e 8.2 BETA in CS6 also does this (Apply a Defringe Amount of 2 and Hue of 22/42) BUT Lightroom 5.2RC doesn't.

                 

                Don.

                • 5. Re: LR 5.2RC Introducing CA's that weren't there before
                  ssprengel CommunityMVP

                  The factory default defringe amounts are zero for both products, and the defaults for each product are saved independently of each other.

                   

                  At some point you saved a new set of defaults for ACR that had a non-zero defringe amount, but have not done so with LR, yet.

                  • 6. Re: LR 5.2RC Introducing CA's that weren't there before
                    BKKDon Community Member

                    No, I haven't saved a new set of defaults ... don't have any.

                     

                    The default in LR5 and ACR8.1 is +2 and 22/42, the same in ACR8.2 but not LR5.2 ... In ACR it doesn't matter if I choose Auto/Default/Custom for the Lens Corrections.

                     

                    Only happens with a DNG (generated by LR) not CR2 and only with EOS 5D Mk III RAW.

                     

                    The import preset I use is:

                     

                                                  AutoLateralCA = 1,

                                                  ChromaticAberrationB = 0,

                                                  ChromaticAberrationR = 0,

                                                  ConvertToGrayscale = false,

                                                  CropConstrainToWarp = 0,

                                                  Defringe = 0,

                                                  DefringeGreenAmount = 0,

                                                  DefringeGreenHueHi = 60,

                                                  DefringeGreenHueLo = 40,

                                                  DefringePurpleAmount = 0,

                                                  DefringePurpleHueHi = 70,

                                                  DefringePurpleHueLo = 30,

                                                  EnableLensCorrections = true,

                                                  LensManualDistortionAmount = 0,

                                                  LensProfileEnable = 1,

                                                  LensProfileSetup = "LensDefaults",

                                                  PerspectiveHorizontal = 0,

                                                  PerspectiveRotate = 0,

                                                  PerspectiveScale = 100,

                                                  PerspectiveVertical = 0,

                                                  ProcessVersion = "6.7",

                                                  Vibrance = 25,

                                                  VignetteAmount = 0,

                                                  VignetteMidpoint = 50,

                                                  orientation = "AB",

                     

                    Used the same in LR5.

                    • 7. Re: LR 5.2RC Introducing CA's that weren't there before
                      ssprengel CommunityMVP

                      So your Import preset, with Defringing amounts set to zero, is overriding your non-zero defaults?

                       

                      Defringing is a manual operation independent of Auto-CA or any associated lens profile.

                      • 8. Re: LR 5.2RC Introducing CA's that weren't there before
                        BKKDon Community Member

                        No that is not what I am saying, it is explained in response 4 above.

                         

                        What I am saying is I don't have any defaults that is why they are set to Zero on import, the import is to simply activate "Remove Chromatic Abberation" so that, if necessary, I can just adjust the sliders.

                         

                        This seems to happen after they are converted to DNG from the original CR2's. If you look at the side by side images below you can see that there are no adjustments to the sliders in LR5.2 but if I quit LR5.2 and open the same image in ACR, ACR/CS6 applies adjustments to the CA Defringe amount. If I open this DNG in LR5, the same happens (NO IMPORT DEFAULTS) and in CS6/ACR8.1 the same happens.

                         

                        LR5.2 vs ACR8.2.jpg

                        • 9. Re: LR 5.2RC Introducing CA's that weren't there before
                          ssprengel CommunityMVP

                          The import preset you’re using sets many things including Defringing-amount values to zero, so I’d expect defringing to be shut off if you used that preset.  You could edit the preset file with a text editor to remove the lines if you don’t want that to happen.

                           

                          Are you using that same preset in LR 5.0 and LR 5.2RC and you get defringing in one and not the other, or are you only getting defringing set to 0 when you use that preset, which would make sense.

                           

                          ACR wouldn’t care about LR’s import preset so it would use whatever its current defaults are, which must be +2/22-42.

                           

                          ACR would only care about LR’s defringing values if you actually updated the DNG with the LR settings, which you can do via a menu option.  Are you writing XMP metadata into your DNGs or not?

                           

                          Are you converting to DNG upon import or are you exporting a DNG out of LR and then viewing or importing into other things?

                          • 10. Re: LR 5.2RC Introducing CA's that weren't there before
                            BKKDon Community Member

                            Answers ...

                             

                            "Are you using that same preset in LR 5.0 and LR 5.2RC and you get defringing in one and not the other, or are you only getting defringing set to 0 when you use that preset, which would make sense."

                             

                            Yes but this has nothing to do with the preset but the way in which Camera Raw isn't consistent between 8-1/8.2 in LR, it is consistent between 8.1/8.2 ACR/CS6.

                             

                            "Are you converting to DNG upon import or are you exporting a DNG out of LR and then viewing or importing into other things?"

                             

                            Workflow is - Import CR2's, Accept/Reject, Convert to DNG

                             

                            What I can understand from reading on Eric Chan's explanation http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2012/04/new-color-fringe-correction-controls.html is that AutoLateralCA=1 is performing an automatic reduction in Purple/Green fringing  as the default in PV2012 is AutoLateralCA=0.

                             

                            So, what that leads me to beleive is the following:

                             

                            1 - LR5.2 isn't introducing CA's, just not following the instruction AutoLateralCA=1 thereby NOT reducing the Purple/Green fringing as asked to do.

                             

                            2 - ACR 8.2 is working correctly by automatically reducing the CA's

                             

                            3 - ACR 8.1/LR5 are working correctly by automatically reducing the CA's

                             

                            Therefore IMHO the RAW processor in LR5.2 and ACR8.2 aren't in sync. And, if you have a look at the current crop of issues, it seems that there are quite a few issues around Lens Correction.

                             

                            Unfortunatly I cannot test the DNG produced by Lightroom in other products as Adobe doesn't adhere to their "open standard" for DNG and creats a proprietery DNG, therefore proprietery RAW as all camera manufacturers do.

                             

                            So I will log a copy of this in the Labs Forum and hope Adobe picks up on it.

                            • 11. Re: LR 5.2RC Introducing CA's that weren't there before
                              MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee

                              The factory (Adobe-provided) defaults for the 5D Mark III have Defringe disabled and the Remove Chromatic Aberration checkbox also disabled.

                               

                              If they are being turned on for new images (with no previous settings), then that is likely because you have previously registered camera model-specific defaults in either ACR or Lr (the settings are shared between the two).  You can reset this in either software.  For example, in Lr, go to Develop module on a given image from this camera and hold down option/alt and press the Reset Defaults button in the right panel.

                              • 12. Re: LR 5.2RC Introducing CA's that weren't there before
                                BKKDon Community Member

                                Hi,

                                 

                                No I don't have any import defaults set but in my import preset I have the following parameter set:

                                 

                                AutoLateralCA = 1

                                 

                                The behaviour I am seeing here is that with this parameter set nothing happens in LR 5.2; but,

                                LR5, ACR 8.1 and ACR 8.2 set Defringe Amount of +2 and Purple Hue of 22/42 automatically when opening the DNG created by LR 5.2.

                                • 13. Re: LR 5.2RC Introducing CA's that weren't there before
                                  ssprengel CommunityMVP

                                  There are two different areas of CA/Defringing that are being confused:

                                   

                                  AutoLateralCA does NOT control the manual Defringing that you see set as +2/22-42—those are the manual defringing parameters.

                                   

                                  AutoLateralCA controls an automatic, hidden, behind-the-scenes lateral CA detection and removal that tries to resize the R, G and B channels about the computed optical center so the channels coincide with each other and fringes of all colors are removed.   This CA is Lateral because it is more the further you get from the optical center.  The other type is Axial CA that is caused things being out of focus front-to-back and impossible to detect remove by resizing the color channels so may need to be removed by manual defringing.  

                                   

                                  The preset parameters labeled as Defringe-something are the manual user-controlled defringing that searches for areas of designated colors near an edge and desaturates them.  These are what you are setting to 0 in your preset in LR 5.2RC and so you’ll see these areas of non-lateral CA.

                                  • 14. Re: LR 5.2RC Introducing CA's that weren't there before
                                    BKKDon Community Member

                                    "AutoLateralCA does NOT control the manual Defringing that you see set as +2/22-42—those are the manual defringing parameters."

                                     

                                    Well what is causing these values to be set in LR5.0, CS6 (ACR 8.1) and CS6(ACR 8.2) on import?

                                     

                                    And there are NO import defaults set.

                                    • 15. Re: LR 5.2RC Introducing CA's that weren't there before
                                      ssprengel CommunityMVP

                                      Every setting has a default value if you don’t override it with an import preset.  Most of them are zero from the “factory” when the initial version of LR or PS/ACR is installed, but it is possible to save your current settings as new defaults in both LR and ACR, and perhaps you did that at some point in the forgotten past,

                                       

                                      I would expect LR 5.2 RC to act the same as LR 5.0 if you don’t apply an import preset.  Does it?

                                       

                                      If not, can you provide a DNG via dropbox.com or similar?

                                      • 16. Re: LR 5.2RC Introducing CA's that weren't there before
                                        areohbee Community Member

                                        BKKDon wrote:

                                         

                                        Well what is causing these values to be set in LR5.0, CS6 (ACR 8.1) and CS6(ACR 8.2) on import?

                                        Theoretically, develop settings like:

                                         

                                           DefringePurpleAmount=0,

                                           DefringePurpleHueLo=30,

                                           DefringePurpleHueHi=70,

                                           DefringeGreenAmount=0,

                                           DefringeGreenHueLo=40,

                                           DefringeGreenHueHi=60,

                                         

                                        Dunno where they'd be coming from, other than the obvious places (default settings, import preset...) - sorry I'm not more help.

                                         

                                        R

                                        • 17. Re: LR 5.2RC Introducing CA's that weren't there before
                                          BKKDon Community Member

                                          Hi All,

                                           

                                          After further investigationI have to humbly apologise as the fault was mine because I didn't update the Metadata before using it in CS6.

                                           

                                          Once again I apologise for wasting your time, the moderator can delete this thread if they like (or not)

                                           

                                          Don.