9 Replies Latest reply on Nov 9, 2013 4:36 PM by flatform

    When do I need maximum render quality?

    m-sanchez Level 1

      Help me to understand it right.

       

      There is "maximum bit depth" and "maximum render quality".

       

       

      I only use maximum render quality if I downscale a project from hd to sd to get a better downscale?!

       

      I use maximum bit depth if I want to render effects in 10 Bit quality.

      I usually cut with XDCAM Files outputting it to disc - with this 8 Bit Files there is no require to render with maximum bit depth isn't it?

      Because when I output to XDCAM-Disc all files must be coded to 8 bit xdcam-mxf again right?

        • 1. Re: When do I need maximum render quality?
          m-sanchez Level 1

          Additional I don't unterstand right now, why Premiere is rendering my 50MBit Xdcam Files with 25 Mbits MPEG files.

          Is this only preview quality?

          • 2. Re: When do I need maximum render quality?
            DA post prod Level 2

            I only use maximum render quality if I downscale a project from hd to sd to get a better downscale?!

            Yes, exactly. Otherwise it takes much much longer for not a much better quality. Maybe on very complex shot it's worth to do it, but usually you may want to turn it off if you don't up or downscale the image.

            I usually cut with XDCAM Files outputting it to disc - with this 8 Bit Files there is no require to render with maximum bit depth isn't it?

            Because when I output to XDCAM-Disc all files must be coded to 8 bit xdcam-mxf again right?

            No it's not necessary. Unless you want to make a color grading in 10bit, but that would be with a lossless codec like DNxHD.

            Additional I don't unterstand right now, why Premiere is rendering my 50MBit Xdcam Files with 25 Mbits MPEG files.

            Is this only preview quality?

            When you say rendering is it just in the timeline ? Normally on export if you set 50MBit/S it will export Mbit/s.

            • 3. Re: When do I need maximum render quality?
              Fuzzy Barsik Level 4
              with this 8 Bit Files there is no require to render with maximum bit depth isn't it?

              See this The Video Road blogpost on Understanding Color Processing. At the end of the article Steve Hoeg presents detailed explanation how the 'Maximum Bit Depth' flag works.

               

              See also this discussion on 'Maximum Render Quality'.

              Additional I don't unterstand right now, why Premiere is rendering my 50MBit Xdcam Files with 25 Mbits MPEG files.

              Is this only preview quality?

              If you're talking about preview files, then yes, unless you tick 'Use Previews' checkbox in the Export Settings dialog. By default PrPro utilises MPEG2 for rendering previews. You can change that while you're creating new sequence: in the New Settings dialog click Settings tab, choose 'Custom' from the Editing Mode drop down list, then you will be able to set Preview File Format and Codec in the Video Previews section. Now the question is whether you really want it? Rendering to a production codec will take longer, whereas rendering previews happens more often (if ever) than rendering final output...

               

              Tento wrote:
              No it's not necessary. Unless you want to make a color grading in 10bit, but that would be with a lossless codec like DNxHD.

              No, that's a delusion. See this The Video Road blogpost on Understanding Color Processing I mentioned earlier in my comment.

              • 4. Re: When do I need maximum render quality?
                m-sanchez Level 1

                Thank you guys for your help.

                 

                So everything seems okay?!

                Rendering Preview is with reduced quality while export is with 50 MBits again!?

                • 5. Re: When do I need maximum render quality?
                  DA post prod Level 2

                  Fuzzy Barsik wrote:

                   

                  Tento wrote:
                  No it's not necessary. Unless you want to make a color grading in 10bit, but that would be with a lossless codec like DNxHD.

                  No, that's a delusion. See this The Video Road blogpost on Understanding Color Processing I mentioned earlier in my cemment.

                  Thanks for sharing this article, really interesting stuff. I'll discuss this with my colorist that have always told me that he prefers to work with 10bit files because it gives him more latitude. But apparently Karl Soule has a strong and develop point here.

                  • 6. Re: When do I need maximum render quality?
                    DA post prod Level 2

                    m-sanchez wrote:

                     

                    So everything seems okay?!

                    Rendering Preview is with reduced quality while export is with 50 MBits again!?

                    Exactly, so that you can work faster when you preview your edit. That's why it's called preview and not masterview

                    • 7. Re: When do I need maximum render quality?
                      Fuzzy Barsik Level 4
                      So everything seems okay?!

                      If you mean that checking 'Maximum Bit Depth' is worth only when you render to a 10-bit codec, then no. Revise my comment and do read that The Video Road blogpost.

                      Tento wrote:

                      I'll discuss this with my colorist that have always told me that he prefers to work with 10bit files because it gives him more latitude

                      That entirely depends on what your colorist means exactly. Shooting with 10-bit does provide more latitude for colour grading, whereas transcoding 8-bit materials into 10-bit does not, when it comes to Adobe Suite. Other applications may process bit depth differently.

                       

                      Also transcoding may serve as a time saver. E.g. in a multiple layers compositing scenario.

                      • 8. Re: When do I need maximum render quality?
                        DA post prod Level 2

                        Fuzzy Barsik wrote:

                         

                        Tento wrote:

                        I'll discuss this with my colorist that have always told me that he prefers to work with 10bit files because it gives him more latitude

                        That entirely depends on what your colorist means exactly. Shooting with 10-bit does provide more latitude for colour grading, whereas transcoding 8-bit materials into 10-bit does not, when it comes to Adobe Suite. Other applications may process bit depth differently.

                        Yes what I understood from him is that he would have more latitude with a 10bit file issued of a 8bit shooting. But I have to talk to him to check if it's really what he meant, maybe I misunderstood.

                        • 9. Re: When do I need maximum render quality?
                          flatform

                          Just some details that i find useful on maximum render depth

                           

                          You really need it even with 8bit source files, when using heavy grading/multiple curves/vignettes. If after grading you see banding, go to sequence > sequence settings from the top menu and check "maximum bit depth (ignore the performance popup), then check again your preview (it will change in a second) to see if banding is still present in 32bit mode. If no banding, you must check it when exporting, if  banding is still there, change your grading, then uncheck it to continue with editing.

                           

                          Unfortunately Maximum bit depth exporting is extremely time-consuming, but can really SAVE YOUR DAY when facing artifacts after heavy grading, by completely or almost completely eliminating banding and other unwanted color distortions.

                           

                          Use it only for either small previews or the really final output.

                           

                          Best Regards.