9 Replies Latest reply on Aug 9, 2013 8:04 PM by MadManChan2000

    Basic panel's Tint VS Camera Calibration's Tint

    pierfrancescom666

      Hi there!

      ..my first post here..

       

      I was wondering..what's the point of having two Tint adjustments option? Do they affect the image differently? I wonder what's the technical need.

       

      Hope is not too much of a silly question, but I wanted to get more in depth in the Camera Calibration panel.

       

      thnx

        • 1. Re: Basic panel's Tint VS Camera Calibration's Tint
          JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Making adjustments in the calibration section are adjustments you would make to correct consistent changes that need to be made to all images.  I would make adjustments there that would become part of my default settings.  The adjustment in the basic panel is designed for making individual image adjustments.

          • 2. Re: Basic panel's Tint VS Camera Calibration's Tint
            areohbee Level 6

            Tint adjustment in camera calibration section is for darker tones only (since some cameras have shadow biases to compensate for).

             

            White balance in top section uses 2 sliders: temperature and tint.

            You can also adjust white balance using the 3 sliders in cam calib section: r, g, & b.

             

            But as Jim said, the intent of the bottom section is for permanent compensations (usually saved in presets...), not on-the-fly white balancing.

             

            Note: rightward on temperature slider makes more green and red (yellow).

            rightward on tint slider makes more red & blue (magenta).

             

            So you see:

            increasing temperature and tint is equivalent to making more red (i.e. less blue, and less green).

            decreasing temperature makes more blue

            decreasing tint makes more green.

             

            Put another way: you only need 2 sliders for adjusting the balance between 3 colors, but you can adjust using 3 sliders too: one for each color.

             

            Sorry if too high an answer-to-question ratio.

             

            Rob

            • 3. Re: Basic panel's Tint VS Camera Calibration's Tint
              Jeff Schewe Level 5

              Actually, the Calibration panel is used for adjusting the hue rendering bias of RGB from the sensor...the tint in the white balance adjusts the magenta/green portion of the white balance which fine tunes the color temperature for the spectral properties of the light that falls on the scene which is captured by the camera. Two different purposes entirely.

              • 4. Re: Basic panel's Tint VS Camera Calibration's Tint
                areohbee Level 6

                Jeff Schewe wrote:

                 

                the Calibration panel is used for adjusting the hue rendering bias of RGB from the sensor...

                Saturation sliders in bottom section can do same thing as white balance sliders in top section, but yeah: there are the hue sliders in bottom section which have no equivalent up top.

                • 5. Re: Basic panel's Tint VS Camera Calibration's Tint
                  Vit Novak Level 3

                  WB sliders are moving position of the white point, while saturation sliders in calibration section are changing the distance between (virtual) position of R, G and B primary of the sensor and the white point. They can't really do the same

                  • 6. Re: Basic panel's Tint VS Camera Calibration's Tint
                    areohbee Level 6

                    Vit Novak wrote:

                     

                    WB sliders are moving position of the white point, while saturation sliders in calibration section are changing the distance between (virtual) position of R, G and B primary of the sensor and the white point. They can't really do the same

                    Well, I don't understand the terminology you've used. But isn't this true:

                     

                    Basic white balance:

                    * Temperature slider to the right reduces relative amount of blue.

                    * Tint slider to the right reduces relative amount of green.

                     

                    And in camera calibration:

                    * B saturation to the left reduces the absolute amount of blue.

                    * G saturation to the left reduces the absolute amount of green.

                     

                    So by changing *BOTH* global saturation and camera calibration sliders you can change the white balance of a photo, in a fashion very close to, if not exactly like the white balance sliders in the basic section.

                     

                    That seems right to me - Is there something not being taken into consideration?

                     

                    PS - ACDSee's editor only has R, G, & B sliders for adjusting white balance (there are no temperature and tint sliders), or at least that was true a few versions back.

                     

                    Rob

                    • 7. Re: Basic panel's Tint VS Camera Calibration's Tint
                      Vit Novak Level 3

                      Well, not really

                       

                      Use WB tool to set particular point in the photo to gray, meaning R=G=B, then set a sample with Color Sampler tool

                       

                      No matter how you move those 6 hue and saturation sliders in calibration pane, selected point will stay gray

                       

                      ACR is also using RGB "sliders" (multipliers) for WB internaly, just that they are calculated from  temperature and tint, as documented in the dng sdk. If As shot WB is used, RGB multipliers are taken from the photo metadata and recalculated to temperature/tint, shown in the ACR

                      • 8. Re: Basic panel's Tint VS Camera Calibration's Tint
                        areohbee Level 6

                        Vit Novak wrote:

                         

                        No matter how you move those 6 hue and saturation sliders in calibration pane, selected point will stay gray

                        Thanks Vit - I stand corrected, and apologize to the community for misinforming.

                        • 9. Re: Basic panel's Tint VS Camera Calibration's Tint
                          MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee

                          Here's some background to help you understand the purpose of the Tint slider in the Camera Calibration panel.  Raw files typically have specific digital values (e.g., 1024 for a 14-bit raw file) that represent the black point.  It's really important for a raw converter to have an accurate value of the black point, otherwise dark tones will have a color cast.  And the stronger the white balance correction you apply in the Basic panel, the worse the shadow color cast can get.

                           

                          Now, in general Camera Raw knows what the black point is for each camera model and ISO setting, but sometimes the estimate can be off slightly.  This can happen for several reasons.  To help deal with the shadow color cast problems resulting from these deviations, the Tint slider in the Camera Calibration panel can be used to adjust ACR's assumed black point for your image.  This has the practical effect of biasing shadow tones green vs magenta, which you can use to remove or reduce the color cast.  That's why the slider is in a section named "Shadows" and in the panel Camera Calibration (it's really about tuning ACR's shadow baseline for your camera).