12 Replies Latest reply on Aug 13, 2013 9:45 PM by A.T. Romano

    Stalled and Jerky playback in preview window

    tomzudock

      I've read several of the posts on slow and/or jerky playback in the preview window, but I haven't seen any clear resolutions.  I have this same problem, and for me the program is unusable this way.  It will play through the first 5-10 seconds smoothly, and then the preview window is frozen, the time counter is usually frozen, but some times it will count while the video stutters.  Sometimes, say after 10 seconds or so it will resume, play smoothly a little more, then do it again.

       

      Here are my system specs:

      • Premiere Elements 11, 20120921.B275.435760
      • Windows 8 64 bit
      • Core i7-3770k 3.5 GHz
      • 8 GB RAM
      • GeGForce GTX 660 Video Card
      • Applicaton hard disk is a 10,000 RPM sata drive
      • Data hard disk is a 7200 RPM sata drive
      • Quicktime 7.7.4

       

      The video I'm editing is a collection of football plays, about four minutes worth of plays.  It's always a 5 second freeze frame with a yellow circle to highlight a player, followed by the clip which is generally 10-20 seconds.  Nothing complicated.

       

      The source video is MP4.  For example: 720x480,29.97 frame rate, 1.1 MB/sec average data rate, pixel aspect ration 1.2121 (that's from the properties in PE11.)

       

      There are green lines above the time line in expert view in some areas of the time line.  Others have nothing.  I have rendered the time line.  When the files were added there was a note about "conforming" such and such file.

       

      If I've missed anything relevant, please let me know and I will post.  Help is greatly appreciated.

       

      Thanks.

       

      Tom Z

        • 1. Re: Stalled and Jerky playback in preview window
          A.T. Romano Level 7

          Tom Z

           

          It sounds like you have

          720 x 480 with a 16:9 flag at 29.97 interlaced frames per second. Do you have a properties readout to indicate whether this video has is progressive or interlaced. You can find that in a properties readout from MediaInfo. You say it has a .mp4 file extension. What are the video compression and audio compression?

          http://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo

          That will become relevant if the Field Order is Upper Field First and you have heading for DVD-VIDEO Widescreen and its Field Order of Lower Field First.

           

          The first order of business is whether or not you are using the correct project preset for this project. If the footage is as I have understood it to be, then the project preset should be NTSC DV Widescreen. If we get into a Field Order switch situation, we can use that project preset and then use Field Options/Reverse Field Dominance on the Timeline video in the project. Alternatively we could omit the Timeline Field Options/Reverse Field Dominance, and just use the project preset of NTSC Hard Disk Flash Memory Camcorders/Widescreen,

           

          If you are using version 11, the program is supposed to be setting the project preset for you automatically based on the properties of the first video drag to the Expert view Timeline. Sometimes it does this OK, sometimes not. Check Edit Menu/Project Settings/General Editing Mode, Timebase, and Frame Size to see what it did. If no match between source media properties and the project preset description, then you set the project preset yourself manually (File Menu/New/Project).

           

          Let us start here and then decide what next.

           

          Thanks

           

          ATR

          • 2. Re: Stalled and Jerky playback in preview window
            tomzudock Level 1

            ATR,

             

            Here's the description from mediainfo from one of the files, and a screen shot of my project settings are below.  So it looks like a match to me on aspect ratio, although I don't know if the original frame rate or frame rate is what matters to PE11.

             

            Format                                   : MPEG-4

            Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2

            Codec ID                                 : mp42

            File size                                : 4.71 GiB

            Duration                                 : 2h 14mn

            Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable

            Overall bit rate                         : 4 997 Kbps

             

            Video

            ID                                       : 2

            Format                                   : AVC

            Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec

            Format profile                           : Main@L4.1

            Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes

            Format settings, ReFrames                : 2 frames

            Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=18

            Codec ID                                 : avc1

            Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding

            Duration                                 : 2h 14mn

            Duration_LastFrame                       : 17ms

            Bit rate mode                            : Constant

            Bit rate                                 : 4 736 Kbps

            Nominal bit rate                         : 8 759 Kbps

            Width                                    : 720 pixels

            Height                                   : 480 pixels

            Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9

            Frame rate mode                          : Constant

            Frame rate                               : 59.940 fps

            Original frame rate                      : 29.970 fps

            Standard                                 : NTSC

            Color space                              : YUV

            Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0

            Bit depth                                : 8 bits

            Scan type                                : Interlaced

            Scan order                               : Top Field First

            Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.229

            Stream size                              : 4.46 GiB (95%)

             

            Audio

            ID                                       : 1

            Format                                   : AAC

            Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec

            Format profile                           : LC

            Codec ID                                 : 40

            Duration                                 : 2h 14mn

            Bit rate mode                            : Variable

            Bit rate                                 : 256 Kbps

            Maximum bit rate                         : 576 Kbps

            Channel(s)                               : 2 channels

            Channel positions                        : Front: L R

            Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz

            Compression mode                         : Lossy

            Stream size                              : 247 MiB (5%)

             

             

             

            project_settings.png

             

            Tom Z

            • 3. Re: Stalled and Jerky playback in preview window
              A.T. Romano Level 7

              Tom Z

               

              Thanks for the important information.

               

              Here is where it get curious. How did you get that original frame rate 29.97 and apparent current frame rate of 59.94 interlaced frames per second? Was there some file conversion somewhere along the line before this file got into Premiere Elements as this AVCHD/AAC.mp4?

               

              If this is going into DVD-VIDEO widescreen, then we will need to take Field Order switch into consideration...from your Top Field First (aka Upper Field First) to Bottom Field First (Lower Field First). But, first let us get the details of the frame rate cleared up.

               

              Please review and do not hesitate to let me know if I have misinterpreted any of your details.

               

              Thanks.

               

              ATR

               

              Add On..I am going to be calling it a day. I will check your thread first thing in the early morning to see if you have any further information.

              • 4. Re: Stalled and Jerky playback in preview window
                tomzudock Level 1

                Thanks for the help ATR.

                 

                Here is where it get curious. How did you get that original frame rate 29.97 and apparent current frame rate of 59.94 interlaced frames per second? Was there some file conversion somewhere along the line before this file got into Premiere Elements as this AVCHD/AAC.mp4?

                 

                I noticed that also.  These were originally provided to me on DVD, but I converted them from the source DVDs to MPEG4-AVC.  I looked back at the template used and it shows 29.97 interlaced as the target ouput, but looking at the mediainfo output, these must be 59.94 progressive.  The PE11 project is set for interlaced, so that's certainly a disconnect between the project settings and the source content.

                 

                I can't modify the project settings on this project, but you mentioned above that I could create a new project with these settings.  How then do I pull in all these clips and edits from the previous project without having to recreate all the editing work?

                 

                Tom Z

                • 5. Re: Stalled and Jerky playback in preview window
                  A.T. Romano Level 7

                  TomZ

                   

                  I will work on this the first thing in the early morning.

                   

                  From what you have in screenshots,  it looks like you have 720 x 480 with 16:9 display aspect ratio at 59.94 interlaced frames per second instead of 29.97 interlaced frames per second. And, as interlaced footage you have Upper Field First instead of Lower Field First.

                   

                  You may be alright with the project settings with a few minor adjusts within the editing phase and letting export settings define the end result.

                   

                  But clearer view in the morning.

                   

                  ATR

                  • 6. Re: Stalled and Jerky playback in preview window
                    A.T. Romano Level 7

                    Tom Z

                     

                    Here is what I would like you to review...

                     

                    Premiere Elements 11 on Windows 8 64 bit

                     

                    (a) Project Preset ....I believe that you have done this already put just posting as part of the overall proposed plan...

                     

                    Set the project preset manually, do not let the program do this setting.

                    File Menu/New/Project

                    and in the new project dialog, set at NTSC DV Widescreen

                    make sure that there is a check mark next to "Fit Selected Project Setting for this Project" before you exit the new project dialog.

                     

                    (b) In the Premiere Elements 11 workspace, use Add Media/Files and Folders to get the video into Project Assets. In Project Assets, right click the video there and select Interpret Footage. Look to the Frame Rate section. I am expecting you to see 59.94 in the "Use Frame Rate from File" field. If that is the case, then dot the choice of "Assume this frame rate: ______fps" and type in 29.97.

                     

                    Note: If you already have the video on the Timeline, then still do Interpret Footage from the Project Assets thumbnail.

                     

                    (c) Drag the file to the Timeline. Right click the video, select Field Options and then Reverse Field Dominance.

                     

                    Note: If you already have the video on the Timeline, then still do "c".

                     

                    (d) Render the Timeline video (expected to have an orange line over it at this point). When the process is completed, the line should be green. If you play back the video at this point, what does its playback look like in the Edit Mode Monitor?

                     

                    Looking forward to your results.

                     

                    But, in reflection, I wonder if you would been better served by ripping the DVD VOB's using Premiere Elements NTSC DV Widescreen project and then using them for

                     

                    a. DVD-VIDEO Widescreen on DVD disc

                    and/or

                    b. Export to an AVCHD.mp4 file via Publish+Share/Computer/AVCHD with preset = MP4 - NTSC DV Widescreen.

                     

                    Please review and let us know the outcome.

                     

                    Thanks.

                     

                    ATR

                    • 7. Re: Stalled and Jerky playback in preview window
                      tomzudock Level 1

                      ATR:

                       

                      I will try this when I get home tonight.

                       

                      (a) Project Preset ....I believe that you have done this already put just posting as part of the overall proposed plan...

                       

                      Set the project preset manually, do not let the program do this setting.

                      File Menu/New/Project

                      and in the new project dialog, set at NTSC DV Widescreen

                      make sure that there is a check mark next to "Fit Selected Project Setting for this Project" before you exit the new project dialog.

                       

                      Assuming this all works, am I going to need to completely recreate my project?  Or will there be a way to import all the edits from the original project?

                      (b) In the Premiere Elements 11 workspace, use Add Media/Files and Folders to get the video into Project Assets. In Project Assets, right click the video there and select Interpret Footage. Look to the Frame Rate section. I am expecting you to see 59.94 in the "Use Frame Rate from File" field. If that is the case, then dot the choice of "Assume this frame rate: ______fps" and type in 29.97.

                      Yoiu want me to force it to 29.97, even though media info says it's 59.94?  Sounds like you dont' think it's really 59.94, but is indeed 29.97 top field first.

                      (c) Drag the file to the Timeline. Right click the video, select Field Options and then Reverse Field Dominance.

                       

                      You want it to be top field first, as media info indicates is the format.

                       

                      Tom Z

                      • 8. Re: Stalled and Jerky playback in preview window
                        A.T. Romano Level 7

                        TomZ

                         

                        Based on your project settings in one of your prior screenshots, your current project should be set up for NTSC DV Widescreen which is where we want to be for this troubleshooting at this point.

                         

                        Right now, I want to see what happens with the 29.97 Interpret Footage set frame rate since that was the original frame rate before you worked with the file.

                         

                        When we use the NTSC DV Widescreen project preset and you have interlaced footage with Upper Field First (also known as Top Field First) and you are heading to DVD-VIDEO which uses Lower Field First (also known as Bottom Field First), the fields should be switched.

                         

                        a. Right clicking the video on the Timeline, selecting Field Options/Reverse Field Dominance. That should switch the fields from Upper Field First to Lower Field First.

                         

                        OR

                         

                        b. Use the project preset NTSC Hard Disk Flash Memory Camcorder/Widescreen and proceed without using the Field Options on the video. That preset should do automatic switch for your fields. But that would mean starting a new project. That is why I offered the "a" choice.

                         

                        Looking forward to your results.

                         

                        ATR

                        • 9. Re: Stalled and Jerky playback in preview window
                          tomzudock Level 1

                          ATR:

                           

                          I took a sort of hybrid approach of what you suggested.  I started with my existing approach

                          (c) Drag the file to the TimelineRight click the video, select Field Options and then Reverse Field Dominance. Note: If you already have the video on the Timeline, then still do "c".

                           

                          (d) Render the Timeline video (expected to have an orange line over it at this point). When the process is completed, the line should be green. If you play back the video at this point, what does its playback look like in the Edit Mode Monitor?

                          This works.  The video played smoothly.  Side note:  It paused on it's own twice after a few minutes, which was strange, but the program was not frozen, and I simply pressed play and the video started up immediately.

                           

                          I have a question though.  Before reversing the field dominance, the video clips had no colored bar above them - neither green nor orange, just no bar.  The only sections that had green bars over them were the freeze frames I created with the yellow circle overlay, or where I had a yellow circle in motion layered over a video clip to track a football player.  When I reversed the field dominance, I saw the orange bar as you described, and they became green when I rendered.  Now the question... What resolved this - matching the expected field dominance or forcing PE11 to render all the video?  If I revert back by unchecking the Reverse Field Dominance box, I again have no colored bar above the clip, and the video stalls.  Is there a way to force the video clips to be rendered so I can test this?

                           

                          Also, please explain if I understand correctly, your fundamental goal for me with this project was to have the project settings match the media that is added.  I could do this with a new project that match the clip settings and repeat all the editing work, or the method described above to each individual clip.

                           

                          Other stuff...

                          (b) In the Premiere Elements 11 workspace, use Add Media/Files and Folders to get the video into Project Assets. In Project Assets, right click the video there and select Interpret Footage. Look to the Frame Rate section. I am expecting you to see 59.94 in the  in the "Use Frame Rate from File" field. 

                          Actually it did not.  It showed 29.97.  So, I'm confused about why media info was showing 59.94.  As mentioed before, I looked back at my conversion template and it was set for output of 29.97.

                           

                          A thousand thank you's for all the help.  I wouldn't have figured this out without your help.

                           

                          Tom Z

                          1 person found this helpful
                          • 10. Re: Stalled and Jerky playback in preview window
                            A.T. Romano Level 7

                            Tom Z

                             

                            It is not clear to me what went on with MediaInfo and that frame rate readout out regarding its listing of frame rate and original frame rate. I have not seen that before. In Interpret Footage, when you found "Use Frame Rate From File" = 29.97 fps, did you stop or did you dot the "Assume this Frame Rate" and fill in 29.97 fps? Whatever you decided, go with it since it worked.

                             

                            You wrote

                            What resolved this - matching the expected field dominance or forcing PE11 to render all the video?  If I revert back by unchecking the Reverse Field Dominance box, I again have no colored bar above the clip, and the video stalls.  Is there a way to force the video clips to be rendered so I can test this?

                             

                            Now here is the part where it gets confusing. No colored line or a green line over Timeline contents is the program telling you that you have the best possible preview as seen at playback in the Edit Mode Monitor. Orange line means needs rendering to get the best possible preview. The only time that the program uses no color line as its OK indicator is when you first drag a native clip to the Timeline with the appropriate project preset. Once you edit that clip, like all edited unrendered clips, it will have an orange line over it with all the implications that go with it, namely, render. So, you render, the line goes from orange to green. You have gotten your best possible preview for that instance and until you edit the clip again. From then on, the program will use only the orange green indicator system for render or no render needed. I need to think about your results some more in this regard. But, I would ask "if you took that Timeline" to a mini export, does the export play back OK?

                             

                            Bottom line: you should be able to judge what you have based on the rendered Timeline as evidenced by its color indicator system.

                             

                            Here is a good article on the nature of interlaced video for you to check out in relation to your interlaced video and the field situation.

                            http://www.neuron2.net/LVG/interlacing.html

                             

                            At this time, I am hesitant to generalize on what went on here, especially in view of that MediaInfo properties readout. But, I am very pleased for the progress.

                             

                            Before deciding to try for the Hard Disk Flash Memory Camcorders project preset to avoid multiple Field Options Reverse Field Dominance on the Timeline, I would do a mini test run comparison between the two approaches to switch fields...special project preset versus project preset you used + applying Field Option Reverse Field Dominance at Timeline level.

                             

                            If you are going to look into a new project, maybe consider what I wrote earlier (if you think it fits into what you goal is)

                            But, in reflection, I wonder if you would been better served by ripping the DVD VOB's using Premiere Elements NTSC DV Widescreen project and then using them for

                             

                            a. DVD-VIDEO Widescreen on DVD disc

                            and/or

                            b. Export to an AVCHD.mp4 file via Publish+Share/Computer/AVCHD with preset = MP4 - NTSC DV Widescreen

                            We will be watching for further developed.

                             

                            Congratulations on your results. Thanks for staying with the troubleshooting.

                             

                            ATR

                            • 11. Re: Stalled and Jerky playback in preview window
                              tomzudock Level 1

                              ATR:

                              In Interpret Footage, when you found "Use Frame Rate From File" = 29.97 fps, did you stop or did you dot the "Assume this Frame Rate" and fill in 29.97 fps? Whatever you decided, go with it since it worked.

                              I only went as far to see what Interpret Footage showed me.  It showed me 29.97, and had I gone further I would have left it without selecting the dot below it, and typing in the same number.  That seemed redundant to me.  My understanding of your directions for that approach was to create a new project, and add the video files one by one, making this setting.  Taking that route I would have to recreate all my edits (unless there's some way to import only the edits that I don't know of).  So, I only went as far a needed to answer your question of whether it displayed 29.97 or 59.94.

                              But, I would ask "if you took that Timeline" to a mini export, does the export play back OK?

                              I don't know what a mini export is.  I have published to an MPEG2 file, burned a DVD with that file, and a youtube flash video, and all play smoothly.  (there's actually a different problem with publishing, and I'll open a separate subject).

                              No colored line or a green line over Timeline contents is the program telling you that you have the best possible preview as seen at playback in the Edit Mode Monitor.

                              Well, that's certainly interesting.  I will try creating another project with these forcing the fields specifications to match and see what happens.  I'll have to do a bunch of edits for it to be an equivalent test.

                              If you are going to look into a new project, maybe consider what I wrote earlier (if you think it fits into what you goal is)

                              But, in reflection, I wonder if you would been better served by ripping the DVD VOB's using Premiere Elements NTSC DV Widescreen project and then using them for

                               

                              a. DVD-VIDEO Widescreen on DVD disc

                              and/or

                              b. Export to an AVCHD.mp4 file via Publish+Share/Computer/AVCHD with preset = MP4 - NTSC DV Widescreen

                              I certainly could have done this, but my thinking on this was that I should expect that I will be getting video source files many sources, and I can't control the format of all of them.  I'd rather learn the bag of tricks for handling that within the capability of the tool, rather than work on the assumption that I must transcode everything to a copy that PE11 will like.  I really have little doubt that if use a file that PE11 has rendered, that PE11 will handle it well, so that is always a fallback.  Perhaps the even bigger reason in this instance is that although this was a short football highlight, it came from over 15 hours of video, which would take quite a while to recode.

                               

                              Thanks again.  Watch for the next post on a different issue. 

                              • 12. Re: Stalled and Jerky playback in preview window
                                A.T. Romano Level 7

                                Tom Z

                                 

                                Just saw your new thread and responded to it.

                                 

                                It is late where I am, so I will read your latest post in this thread in more detail in the morning and add some comments if necessary.

                                 

                                ATR