12 Replies Latest reply on Aug 26, 2013 7:26 AM by A.T. Romano

    Dual Layer burning problem in PE11

    Fiona_L

      I'm having trouble burning dual layer (8.5gb) either to file or to disck - in both cases it stops at 75% (which I read somewhere equates to about halfway through my project?).

       

      I've been through the trouble-shouter re disc burning and have burned a single disc (both to file and disc) and saved as an mpeg file (11.5gb) from the same project, all with no problem.

       

      Is it possible that the layer break is causing a problem?  Presumably as there is no option for setting the layer break, PE11 does it automatically?  If so, does it also put one in when you are burning to file?

       

      I have one fairly lengthy clip which crossed the halfway point on the timeline, but as the total file size would be 6.5gb, I wouldn't have thought the layer break point should be that critical as it could go after the long clip and still have room for the rest on layer 1).  But if PE11 was trying to split the disc at exactly the halfway point, is it possible that would cause the problem?   

       

      I didn't have any markers on the time line at all, but after 2nd time of failed, I tried putting in a scene marker just after the long clip so to see whether it would help, but it hasn't.  I've about given up and am now looking for other software,

       

      Has anyone got any suggestions as to what the problem might be please?

        • 1. Re: Dual Layer burning problem in PE11
          A.T. Romano Level 7

          Fiona_1

           

          Until proven otherwise, Premiere Elements (any version) goes to the matter of setting the double layer single sided DVD's layer break. Setting the layer break can be done with 3rd party software in conjunction with Premiere Elements. The 3rd party software might be PgcEdit.and ImgBurn

          In this approach, you would burn to folder (8.5) and then take the VIDEO_TS Folder of the saved folder into PgcEdit.

          http://www.digital-digest.com/~blutach/dl_burn_guide2/dl_burning_with_pgcedit_v2.htm

          http://forums.adobe.com/thread/398646

           

          From another aspect....

           

          For your DVD-VIDEO on that double layered single sided disc, you might want to look at is burn to: Folder (8.5), followed by taking the VIDEO_TS Folder to a DVD+R DL singled sized disc in a free program such as ImgBurn. Does that go to completion? Decision about importance of setting layer break can be made later if it is really involved in your issues presented.

           

          But, keep in mind, that the double layered single sided disc labelled 8.5 GB/240 minutes is in reality 7.95 GB.

           

          To sum it up...for starter, burn to: Folder (8.5), followed by burn to DVD-VIDEO on DVD double layer single sided disc using ImgBurn. Then decide we can decide what next.

           

          Looking forward to your follow up.

           

          Thanks.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Dual Layer burning problem in PE11
            Fiona_L Level 1

            AT Romano

             

            Many thanks for taking the time to reply.

             

            Unfortunately I'm having the same trouble buring to folder (8.5) as to disc.  However, it seems from what you say that PE11 doesn't put in a layer break when burned to folder, in which case I think I'm barking up the wrong tree with blaming layer breaks for the failure to burn; I just couldn't see what else was different when it processed an 11gig mpeg file fine and burned a single layer disc fine too.

             

            Fiona

            • 3. Re: Dual Layer burning problem in PE11
              A.T. Romano Level 7

              Fiona_L

               

              Thanks for the follow up.

               

              First, my apologizes for the typo at the very beginning of my initial response

              Until proven otherwise, Premiere Elements (any version) goes to the matter of setting the double layer single sided DVD's layer break. Setting the layer break can be done with 3rd party software in conjunction with Premiere Elements. The 3rd party software might be PgcEdit.and ImgBurn

              I omitted "..does not go.." before "the matter if setting the double layer....." But, I think you probably realized that when you read further into the next sentence and beyond. Sorry about that.

               

              I suspect that you issue goes to the project itself.

               

              But, I would ask.."How did you ever get an 11 GB Timeline on a single layer disc with a decent bitrate and to give good quality results? In that instance, do you remember what Premiere Elements was forced to use as a bitrate in order to make the content fit the disc? Keep in mind that the DVD 4.7 GB/120 minutes has in reality 4.38 GB, not 4.7 GB. By the way, the max bitrate is 8.00 Mbps when either the 4.7 GB and 8.5 GB DVD disc is used.

               

              Putting aside the size of the project which appears to be a target for discussion, is your computer optimized. Have you checked for pile ups of preview files, conformed audio files, and conformed video files?

              Please see Edit Menu/Preferences/Scratch Disks for Video Previews and Media Cache location and free space available at that location.

              Please see Edit Menu/Preferences/Media for Media Cache Database.

               

              Please review and then we can work on this some more.

               

              Thanks.

               

              ATR

              • 4. Re: Dual Layer burning problem in PE11
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                Fiona,

                 

                I agree with ATR, that the issue is likely in the Project, itself, but his suggestions for getting your computer ready for such an output is critical, even if that is not the cause of the issue with the hang at 75%. Running out of defragmented free-space, etc., can cause hangs. Even active, real-time scanning anti-virus, or anti-malware, can cause issues. In earlier versions of Windows, even Windows Indexing can cause hangs. I would follow ATR's suggestions to eliminate any hardware, OS issues, or conflicts with other programs.

                 

                I would look closely at the Timeline, and specifically at about the half-way point. PrE uses 2-pass Encoding, so the first pass (the complete Timeline) is up to 50% of the Encode. Then, it takes the data gathered, to perform the Encode in that second pass. Seventy-five % is about half-way through that second pass.

                 

                Do you have any odd asset around that point? This might be something like an MP3 Audio Clip, a Video Clip that is different than all the rest, an overly-large Still Image, a gap in the Video, or even perhaps an Effect applied to a single Clip at about that point? Those are just some of the "usual suspects," but by no means cover every possibility.

                 

                Good luck, and please report on your progress and success.

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: Dual Layer burning problem in PE11
                  Fiona_L Level 1

                  Thank you  ATR and Bill Hunt.

                   

                  the single disc did burn ok, but as you summised, the quality wasn't brilliant (though watchable).  I'm afraid I can't remember what bitrate PE used.

                   

                  space in the scratch file and media cache locations - over 360GB available.

                   

                  I'm not sure what 'pile ups' of preview files are - how would I check this please?

                   

                  Re the project itself, at about the halfway line, there is one clip with some text (but there is text elsewhere), otherwise, nothing I can see that is unusual.

                  • 6. Re: Dual Layer burning problem in PE11
                    A.T. Romano Level 7

                    Fiona_L

                     

                    Thanks for the follow up.

                     

                    Regarding Pile Ups...

                     

                    Typically found Documents/Adobe/Premiere Elements/xx

                     

                    a. Preview Files. Whenever you rendered the Timeline content to get the best possible preview of what you are seeing in the Edit Mode Monitor, the program automatically generates previews files and places them wherever you have them directed in the preferences. If the project is SD, then those files are dv.avi (for either stills or video rendered). If the project is HD, then tose files are mpeg2.mpg (for either stills or video rendered. They can pile up and grab a large chunk of your hard drive space. In that case, you can delete to get an extra resource "edge". The consequence of the deletion is that any of those files used in an existing project is that project's Timeline will need rendering again to get your best possible preview in the monitor.

                    b. Conformed Audio...cfa and pek files. Consequence of deletion...the program will automatically regenerate these files if and when needed.

                     

                    Edit Menu/Preferences/Media and its Media Cache Database

                    a. This leads to the conformed video files. Consequence of deletion...the program will automatically regenerate these files if and when needed.

                     

                    I still think that the focus of your problem is the project and trying to get 11.5 GB (if that is what is showing in the Space Required field of the burn dialog) even on a double layer single sided disc and even with "Fit Content to Available Space" with a check mark. Before you hit the Burn button in the burn dialog what does the Quality Area show for Space Required and Bitrate with and without the check mark next to "Fit Content to Available Space"? That answer will be very important on deciding what next.

                     

                    The min and max settings for the bitrate are 1.69 Mbps and 8.00 Mbps respectively. With "Fit Content to Available Space" selected, the program will lower the bitrate from 8.00 downward to make the fit. But, when even its lowest sitting (1.69 Mbps) cannot make the fit, problem. I suspect that you are at the 1.69 Mbps level. Let us see. If so, do you really want a video of the quality that offers?

                     

                    Do you have equipment for Blu-ray?

                     

                    Looking forward to your results.

                     

                    Thanks.

                     

                    ATR

                     

                    Add On...When all is said, we can still wonder about the break point especially when it comes time to decide how much goes on each layer. Have you seen the following description of the break point and double layer single sided disc considerations?

                    http://www.gearsoftware.com/howtoguides/dvdvideobreakpoint.php

                    • 7. Re: Dual Layer burning problem in PE11
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      Fiona,

                       

                      I think that ATR has answered most questions here, and yours, about having ~ 300GB free-space, plus the survey of the Assets on your Timeline at about that point, answer mine.

                       

                      Now, along with ATR's suggestions, lets also look into one other thing, please.

                       

                      First, a bit of background:

                       

                      PrE uses some of the same Sonic AuthorCore modules, as does Adobe Encore - not all the same, as Encore is a full-featured authoring app, where PrE is somewhat limited in what it can do. However, there ARE some similarities. Borrowing from Encore, where DL's do not burn properly, many users have found that they need to run the program as an Administrator - often, just having an account with Administrative Privileges is not quite enough. If their account is not a full Administrator, Encore cannot burn to a DL disc. The "fix" is to Rt-click on the Encore icon, on the Desktop, and choose "Run as Administrator." That "unlocks" the capability to burn to a DL disc. When convenient, can you try running PrE through the "Run as Administrator," when you launch it, and test?

                       

                      Thank you, and good luck,

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: Dual Layer burning problem in PE11
                        Fiona_L Level 1

                        Thanks again to you both.

                         

                        I cleared all the preview and cache files and opened PE 'run as administrator).  Unfortunately this made no difference.

                         

                        ATR - re the bitrate.....for the dual layer the bitrate is showing as 8Mbps, for the single layer it was 5.65Mpbs.

                         

                        I am still wondering about the layer break point, but I don't know whether PE would put one in when you are burning to file rather than disc - if it does, this still might be the problem, if it doesn't, then clearly not seeing as I can't burn to file or disc.

                         

                        I'm having one last go with a new project using the mpeg file I saved of the completed project to see whether this will work.  But its such a slow process - if it's going to fail, why can't it fail in the first few minutes rather than 75% of the way through!

                        • 9. Re: Dual Layer burning problem in PE11
                          A.T. Romano Level 7

                          Fiona_L

                           

                          Until proven otherwise (99.9999% sure), Premiere Elements is not setting any break point for the double layer single sided disc. But something in the burn process needs to decide just how much is going on one layer and how much is going on the second layer. That does not necessary mean to me that it is making an effective "break point" in that decision...just an abrupt that is it and onward to the next layer.

                          Important: When the disc capacity is so exceeded as in this case, I was guessing that decision was involved in the erroring. But, did you say whether

                          a. you put 11.5 GB of media on the Timeline

                          or

                          b. the Quality reading for Space Required here was 11.5 GB?

                           

                          As for the Quality dialog and the bitrate, the max is 8.00 Mbps. If you have the "Fit Content To Available Space" selected, if the value remains at 8.00 Mbps you should be OK. The program has not yet had to lower the bitrate to make the fit. Both DVD 4.7 GB and 8.5 GB work off a max bitrate of 8.00 Mbps. With the DVD 4.7 GB, you were getting into trouble since the bitrate is 5.65 Mpbs. What is the space required information that goes with that 8.00 Mbps that you mentioned (assume for your double layer single sides disc situation)?

                           

                          Typically the progress for these burn to's is

                          Encoding menus

                          Encoding media

                          Compiling media

                          Burn

                           

                          What is the last category that you see in that chain error hits?

                           

                          We will be watching for further developments.

                           

                          Thanks.

                           

                          ATR

                          • 10. Re: Dual Layer burning problem in PE11
                            Fiona_L Level 1

                            Hi ATR

                             

                            I think the 11.5GB is a bit of a red herring - all that I'd said was that I had creaded a 'save to file' video (from the same project) as an mpeg which was 11.5GB.

                             

                            The 8.00mbps rate that I mentioned was 'fit content to available space' (the file size was about 6.2GB)

                             

                            Re the error, it came on the second encoding media run.

                             

                            Since having trouble with burning the dual layer on PE11, I had downloaded a free trial of another software and created a new project in this software using the 11.5GB mpeg file that I had already created in PE11.  I then added a menu in the new software and burned to dual layer disc - it worked fine and the quality is good.  This software did tell me that I need to put in a chapter marker after a certain point in the timeline (which I presume it then uses as a layer break).

                             

                            Last night I tried the same thing in PE11 - i.e. using the 11.5GB mpeg file as a new project, adding a menu and then tried to burn this to an 8.5GB file.  It didn't work - the error came at the same place as previously.  So, I think it is something to do with the break layer point, but with no pointers at all in Adobe help on this point, I don't really have a clue how to resolve it and have given up.

                             

                            ATR and Bill Hunt, thank you both for the time and effort you've put into trying to help on this, but I'm going to admit defeat (at least for this project).  I'm happy with what I've produced using the alternative software (though will probably continuing creating projects in PE as I do find it far more intuitive to use than the other).

                            • 11. Re: Dual Layer burning problem in PE11
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              Fiona,

                               

                              The good news is that you did get your DVD-9 (DL) burned.

                               

                              There is no shame in using other software. My "toolbox" is full of other programs, and I reach for them, when they are needed.

                               

                              For the vast majority of my DVD/BD authoring, I use Adobe Encore (was only available bundled with PrPro from CS 3 through CS 6, and now discontinued), as it is a full-featured authoring app. Others, here and elsewhere, who do not have PrPro CS 3 through CS 6, really sign the praises of Sony's DVD Architect, and our MOD here, Steve Grisetti, has written a very good book on its use. Though I rely on Premiere for most editing, I have Magix and CyberLink, for when I get material, that Premiere does not like. I use the great, free ImgBurn for doing much of my disc burning, though Encore does a good job. Lots of different tools to work with. It's like my Craftsman roll-away tool chest. Most of the tools are Craftsman, but when I need something more, I just grab one of my Snap-On rachets, like the "wobble" extension. I just want to get the job done, so use whatever I need.

                               

                              Now, with a DL disc, the Layer Break can be very important. Even Encore can have issues with those, depending on the Project. Whenever I have such an issue, I will Burn to Folder, then use ImgBurn to do the actual burn to disc, as it usually offers more options for placing the Layer Break - still, that is not always perfect either. With my Projects, I edit in Sequences (PrPro ONLY), and each is a "chapter" on the disc. With that structure, I have an easier time setting my Layer Breaks, as I do not have one long Timeline, as one has with PrE. Still, I have bumped against Layer Break issues, and have had to change the structure a few times, to make thing fit perfectly.

                               

                              Good luck and happy editing,

                               

                              Hunt

                              • 12. Re: Dual Layer burning problem in PE11
                                A.T. Romano Level 7

                                Fiona_L

                                 

                                Sorry that the troubleshooting got detoured with the file size.

                                 

                                That DVD 8.5 GB (really 7.95 GB)/240 minutes should work with what you are actually seeing for the Timeline content in the burn dialog Quality area Space Required (6.2 GB). And, the bitrate of 8.00 Mbps next to that Space Required 6.2 GB is consistent with the program not having to lower the bitrate to make the fit if above 7.95 GB were involved.

                                 

                                In reflecting where we have been, the fact that you cannot burn this project to folder or disc points points to the specific project. I say this because in theory and practice with a similar project I have run the project to a successful completion, burn to disc or folder.

                                 

                                We are pleased that you found an alternative way to get your project taken to completion and probably want to move on. But, if you ever do get the chance, we would be interested to learn if setting the break point for this specific project resulted in a successful burn to disc using the Premiere Elements VIDEO_TS Folder and 3rd party softwares of PgcEdit and ImgBurn (as cited in an earlier post).

                                 

                                Thanks again for exploring the troubleshooting suggested.

                                 

                                Continued success with your projects.

                                 

                                ATR