14 Replies Latest reply on Aug 29, 2013 10:55 PM by c.pfaffenbichler

    How do I obtain a real time display of a Gaussian filter while painting with the brush?

    dkkauwe Level 1

      I am trying to locate information on how to achieve a real time display of the Gaussian blur while painting with the brush.

       

      Google is not being helpful, nor does Adobe's own forum searches yield anything useful.

       

      I have seen mention of Smart Filters and designating the layer as a Smart Object in order to enable a Smart Filter but I can't seem to get the real time display of the filter when painting so I'm not sure if that proccess is at all helpful for me or not as I can't locate information specific to what I'm trying to do.

       

      I'm incidentally using CS5, so if this option doesn't exist, that would be helpful to know so that I'm not spinning my wheels.

       

      Thanks

        • 1. Re: How do I obtain a real time display of a Gaussian filter while painting with the brush?
          Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

          You appear to be speaking in cross purposes, or confusing Gaussian blur with brush hardness.  If you are asking about brush hardness, then use the Full size cursor from the Preferences panel.

          • 2. Re: How do I obtain a real time display of a Gaussian filter while painting with the brush?
            dkkauwe Level 1

            Thanks for your answer Trevor.Dennis-

             

            I don't think I'm confused but maybe I am...

             

            Uh...yeah...no. I just went into Photoshop to double check.

             

            Altering brush hardness does not give me the same effect that I can get when I apply a Gausian blur on top of the brush strokes. I don't know how else to explain it other than it's given me a very nice watercolor like effect that hardness doesn't even begin to approach.

             

            The issue is that I'm now trying to apply the final blending between ton of colors and I don't want to have to lay down the colors and then apply the Gausian blur only to find that the colors are either not as I would like them to be (after the Gaussian blur) or the colors are too wide or the colors are etc etc.

             

            I really would like to be able to see the effect of the Gaussian blur real time as I am painting.

             

            If this is not possible, then I'll just figure something else out, but I've seen other people asking this question online, however either no one seems to have an answer, or people keep talking about utilizing Smart Filters/Smart Objects but again, as I wrote above, I as of yet cannot determine how if at all the Smart Filter feature applies to what I am attempting to do.

            • 3. Re: How do I obtain a real time display of a Gaussian filter while painting with the brush?
              Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

              You seem to be talking about seeing into the future.  You want see the affect of an as yet unused Gaussian blur filter while laying down the brush strokes you later intend to use the Gaussian blur on.  How would that work?

               

              I constantly use a similar workflow for shading in my illustrative work.  If the blur spreads the effect too wide, I use Free Transform to resize it. If it makes it too transparent, I duplicate the layer to increase opacity.  If too thick I reduce the layer's opacity.  I wouldn't bother using Smart layers to do this as it would have no advantage.  Does that help at all?

              • 4. Re: How do I obtain a real time display of a Gaussian filter while painting with the brush?
                Ronald Keller Level 4

                Unless I don't understand the question it seems impossible to me to have Photoshop show the effect of a blur before the blur is actually applied...

                • 5. Re: How do I obtain a real time display of a Gaussian filter while painting with the brush?
                  c.pfaffenbichler Level 9

                  Smart Filters applied to a Smart Object will update when the Smart Object is saved or replaced, they do not provide a real time preview in the containing document while one paints inside the Smart Object.

                  • 6. Re: How do I obtain a real time display of a Gaussian filter while painting with the brush?
                    dkkauwe Level 1

                    Well...that's why I was asking the question. Photoshop is one the most powerful computer programs in existence...I mean honestly, I see no reason why a blur filter or any filter cannot be applied to a layer and then continue the application of said filter to all other pixel activity on the layer...but then again, I'm not one of Adobe's engineers so I have no idea what would technically prevent such from happening.

                     

                    I'm just saying, conceptually, it makes perfect sense to me...but whatever...I also think that division by zero makes perfect sense as well...

                     

                    So whatever. If it's not possible then I'll just do something along the lines of what Trevor.Dennis suggests.

                     

                    ty

                    • 7. Re: How do I obtain a real time display of a Gaussian filter while painting with the brush?
                      dkkauwe Level 1

                      Thanks for clearing  that up- I kid you not, Google dregged up a massive amount of articles all indexed around Smart Filters/Smart Objects and key words "real time display" (maybe I should have used real time preview...who knows), but anyway, none of the articles actually really gave me a clear idea of how to implement and use the Smart Object to Smart Filter...so glad to know that.

                      • 8. Re: How do I obtain a real time display of a Gaussian filter while painting with the brush?
                        dkkauwe Level 1

                        Cool. Thanks for saving me some time, I was ready to start doing...I have no idea what...I got really taken with the combo of Guassian blur and opacity levels...and then I was like...how am I going to control that effect without going back and forth and back and forth and back and forth for final top layer...?

                         

                        So how exactly do you use Free Transform to resize the Gaussian blur...I didn't realize you could do that.

                         

                        I guess my hang up is that I began working in color with...well physical medium and given years with oils, water colors, pastels, and markers, I'm really accustomed to a WYSIWYG kind of proccess so this will take a little gettiing used to I guess but whatever...I could be walking three miles one way each day to draw water from a muddy well...so whatever...

                         

                        Thanks!

                        • 9. Re: How do I obtain a real time display of a Gaussian filter while painting with the brush?
                          Herbert2001 Level 4

                          c.pfaffenbichler wrote:

                           

                          Smart Filters applied to a Smart Object will update when the Smart Object is saved or replaced, they do not provide a real time preview in the containing document while one paints inside the Smart Object.

                          That is an interesting point: if Photoshop could apply live effects to regular layers this would not be an issue. In Photoline most filters are by default "live", so it is possible to paint in the original layer while the filter effects update in realtime. That's what the OP seems to be wishing for. It is somewhat odd that Photoshop cannot pull this off, and smart objects genuinely do break the workflow of the artist, because there is no way to work in them in real time and seamlessly while maintaining a non-destructive filter workflow.

                           

                          Why is this artificial distinction made between regular layers and smart objects anyway? I can only imagine that it is for technical reasons, and the limitations of the legacy Photoshop layer code. The way smart objects are implemented is a limiting factor, and could be much improved.

                          1 person found this helpful
                          • 10. Re: How do I obtain a real time display of a Gaussian filter while painting with the brush?
                            c.pfaffenbichler Level 9
                            Why is this artificial distinction made between regular layers and smart objects anyway? I can only imagine that it is for technical reasons, and the limitations of the legacy Photoshop layer code. The way smart objects are implemented is a limiting factor, and could be much improved.

                             

                            You may not grasp the issue fully, the distinction does make sense.

                             

                            Smart Object are not limited to having Smart Filters applied to them but allow for

                            • multiple instances of elements in an image

                            • transformations and warps of said instances

                            • keeping SOs of varying resolutions in one file

                            • keeping SOs of different Color Spaces and Color Modes in one file

                            Live updating those possibly many differently transformed, converted, filtered, … instances is not as easy/quick as some people may imagine. 

                            • 11. Re: How do I obtain a real time display of a Gaussian filter while painting with the brush?
                              dkkauwe Level 1

                              Oh...what is this Photoline? lol.

                               

                              I'm guessing based on the fact that you're participatig here that Photoshop must still serve some sort of indispensible role for you...

                               

                              These days, my use of Photoshop is mostly for digital painting of textures for 3D game art and I push myself to strengthen my understanding of Photoshop as every single artist or company or whatever that I encounter is quite adamant and clear that they don't care really what program models are created within but only ONE program is apparently acceptable for advanced texture painting and that is Photoshop...which I don't really understand given that Autodesk's Mudbox seems theoretically equivalent/superior...except for a slight deal breaker bit that Mudbox can't seem to actually at present enable the literal pixel by pixel control that PS permits when the model is flattened (which is itself a problem...).

                               

                              So I'm kind of just curious about Photoline now as actually, I really find that I can pull of an apparently undless array of filter combinations to give my textures unsual/interesting feels BUT if I can't do that in real time, then it's a problem to the artistic work flow...

                              • 12. Re: How do I obtain a real time display of a Gaussian filter while painting with the brush?
                                Herbert2001 Level 4

                                c.pfaffenbichler wrote:

                                 

                                 

                                You may not grasp the issue fully, the distinction does make sense.

                                 

                                Smart Object are not limited to have Smart Filters applied to them but allow for

                                • multiple instances of elements in an image

                                • transformations and warps of said instances

                                • keeping SOs of varying resolutions in one file

                                • keeping SOs of different Color Spaces and Color Modes in one file

                                Live updating those possibly many differently transformed, converted, filtered, … instances is not as easy/quick as some people may imagine. 

                                I know exactly what this issue is about, since this is one of the reasons why I switched to Photoline ten months ago.

                                 

                                With Photoline's layer approach, each individual layer and layer mask can be set to any resolution and/or colour space you wish - in the same layer stack. You can have one layer set at Lab 32bit, while another layer works in greyscale 16bit mode, and yet another in CMYK or RGB. Or a combined layer mask group with one layer mask operating in monochrome image mode, and the second one in 16bit greyscale mode. And each layer can have its own custom pixel dimensions and/or ppi set, if that;s required, as well!

                                Up to you! Mix and match as much as you like, there are (virtually) no limits.

                                 

                                Filters are applied as live effects by default, so no need for silly work-arounds, and turning regular layers into smart objects. The can be transformed, warped, liquified, etc, non-destructively.

                                 

                                In Photoline layers, layer groups, layer masks and layer mask groups can be virtually instanced or cloned, and behave similarly to smart objects in Photoshop. There is no reason for Photoline to work with arbitrary externalized objects, i.e. smart objects - because it can all be done within the same layer stack! That is the main difference, and quite liberating.

                                 

                                Layer masks and layer mask groups can be virtually cloned as well, and reused anywhere you want - meaning: I can change the parent layer mask, and it updates in realtime everywhere in my project!!!

                                 

                                Iit allows for a seamless workflow where things update in realtime while you work. All virtual copies in a layer stack of a source layer update in realtime when I make adjustements. There is just no need for a smart objects paradigm in Photoline, because the underlying layer workflow is much smarter (pun intended) than Photoshop's layer system. It's mind-blowing. It's truly BETTER than Photoshop in this regard.

                                 

                                And when I do want to create a "smart object" which is external to the existing layer stack, I create a new page in Photoline, and place all my source layers in that page, and convert to virtual layers, which can then be re-used in any other layer stack on any other page.

                                 

                                I am just saying that Photoshop's layer workflow feels a bit old-fashioned and awkward in comparison, and could benefit from a renewed perspective on how layer stacks can work in image editors, as exemplified by Photoline.

                                • 13. Re: How do I obtain a real time display of a Gaussian filter while painting with the brush?
                                  Herbert2001 Level 4

                                  The reason why I am still here is because I still teach and use Photoshop in my classes as an instructor. I do tell students about Photoline, though. Photoline compares well with Photoshop, except for the "extended" bits (3d and video). (Can you imagine the installation file for Windows is only 17mb?!)

                                   

                                  A secondary reason is that I worked professionally in Photoshop since version 3, and would love to see a paradigm shift in Photoshop - I realized the layer system could be improved so much, after working in PL. And sure, some things are easier in Photoshop, while other things are simpler in PL - as with all software it depends on the task at hand. And I still like Photoshop, although for my work I have switched completely to PL. I use my CS6 license mainly for file conversions.

                                   

                                  I do a lot of texture painting myself, and the non-destructive workflow in PL has been an eye-opener. Btw, it also has a built-in procedural texture builder, which is quite nice for quick effects. The layer system with virtualized instances of layer masks is pure gold for texture painting and generation: replace the contents of the parent mask(group), and all the different parts of the texture change - in realtime. Beautiful.

                                   

                                  But, unfortunately no 3d painting (I use 3dCoat for that, and use the external app connection with Photoline), and nDo will not work in PL. Xnormal plugins work, though. I am hoping the PL devs will at some point add non-destructive external filters as well, but at this point those are still destructive in nature.

                                  dkkauwe wrote:

                                   

                                  Oh...what is this Photoline? lol.

                                   

                                  I'm guessing based on the fact that you're participatig here that Photoshop must still serve some sort of indispensible role for you...

                                   

                                  These days, my use of Photoshop is mostly for digital painting of textures for 3D game art and I push myself to strengthen my understanding of Photoshop as every single artist or company or whatever that I encounter is quite adamant and clear that they don't care really what program models are created within but only ONE program is apparently acceptable for advanced texture painting and that is Photoshop...which I don't really understand given that Autodesk's Mudbox seems theoretically equivalent/superior...except for a slight deal breaker bit that Mudbox can't seem to actually at present enable the literal pixel by pixel control that PS permits when the model is flattened (which is itself a problem...).

                                   

                                  So I'm kind of just curious about Photoline now as actually, I really find that I can pull of an apparently undless array of filter combinations to give my textures unsual/interesting feels BUT if I can't do that in real time, then it's a problem to the artistic work flow...

                                  • 14. Re: How do I obtain a real time display of a Gaussian filter while painting with the brush?
                                    c.pfaffenbichler Level 9

                                    Well, what you describe Photoline to be able to do does sound interesting.

                                    Maybe I’ll have the time to check it out sometime …