11 Replies Latest reply on Jan 22, 2008 11:58 AM by Newsgroup_User

    Rotate canvas - all pages?

    The Pie Man
      If you have multiple pages and use the rotate canvas command, it only rotates the current page. If you also have shared layers (and you probably do, since that's really the point of multiple pages), it will rotate that shared layer, even though it didn't rotate all the pages. So now your layout is completely borked.

      If you then go to the next layer and rotate that, it once again rotates that shared layer. Even more borked.

      This is madness. How can I rotate my entire document, not just one page and shared layers? I've got 15 pages I need to rotate and each time I do it screws up all the rest.
        • 1. Re: Rotate canvas - all pages?
          Level 7
          The Pie Man wrote:

          > This is madness. How can I rotate my entire document, not just one page and
          > shared layers? I've got 15 pages I need to rotate and each time I do it screws
          > up all the rest.

          I've got to ask. :-) Why the heck are you rotating them? I'd do it
          manually myself, by first expanding the canvas, and then grouping the
          objects on each page and rotating them as a group with the Modify >
          Transform > Rotate feature. Ungroup. Trim the canvas back to it's
          original size, and there you have it.

          --
          Linda Rathgeber [PVII] *Adobe Community Expert-Fireworks*
          --------------------------------------------------------------
          http://www.projectseven.com
          Fireworks Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven.com/fireworks/
          CSS Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven.com/css/
          http://www.adobe.com/communities/experts/
          --------------------------------------------------------------
          • 2. Rotate canvas - all pages?
            The Pie Man Level 1
            Fair question. I'm doing wireframes for a web design. The wireframes are in a template where I have the wireframe shown on the left, and some text explanations of certain features on the right. So the canvas is 11 x 8.5. I need to print these - and Fireworks (for some unknown reason) has no option to change the orientation of the paper when printing in OS X, so it is trying to print it 8.5 x 11 instead. There is also no option to put in a custom paper size.

            My solution was to use the 'export as pages as files' and then open them in preview - which has normal printing options.

            So problem solved, but I still am perplexed that Fireworks operates this way. I understand Fireworks isn't meant for creating print materials - but no option to rotate the paper when printing, or even a custom paper size? Geez!

            Edit to add: your solution still means I would need to do this for every page right? I would need to undo it for each one as well since I don't want to work on this document looking at the screen sideways after printing!
            • 3. Re: Rotate canvas - all pages?
              Level 7
              The Pie Man wrote:

              > So problem solved, but I still am perplexed that Fireworks operates this way.
              > I understand Fireworks isn't meant for creating print materials - but no option
              > to rotate the paper when printing, or even a custom paper size? Geez!

              I can appreciate your frustration in this situation. :-) I have to say
              that in the ten years I've been using Fireworks, I've never once printed
              anything from it.

              --
              Linda Rathgeber [PVII] *Adobe Community Expert-Fireworks*
              --------------------------------------------------------------
              http://www.projectseven.com
              Fireworks Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven.com/fireworks/
              CSS Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven.com/css/
              http://www.adobe.com/communities/experts/
              --------------------------------------------------------------
              • 4. Re: Rotate canvas - all pages?
                Level 7
                Linda Rathgeber wrote:
                > The Pie Man wrote:
                >
                >> So problem solved, but I still am perplexed that Fireworks operates
                >> this way. I understand Fireworks isn't meant for creating print
                >> materials - but no option to rotate the paper when printing, or even a
                >> custom paper size? Geez!
                >
                > I can appreciate your frustration in this situation. :-) I have to say
                > that in the ten years I've been using Fireworks, I've never once printed
                > anything from it.

                Hi Linda,
                I am the opposite, whenever I need to show the boss something I print
                it, and have always been amazed at the lack of print options. I normally
                want to show the boss or whoever several variants, and its nice and easy
                to lay them on a table and for them to say yes or no.

                I remember when I first used Fireworks 3, I thought to myself that I am
                sure the next version will have better print options, but even now that
                we are on CS3, they haven't changed one bit.

                I guess if the demand was there then the changes would have been made by
                now, or maybe the ones with issues just haven't been vocal about it enough?

                Steve
                • 5. Re: Rotate canvas - all pages?
                  Level 7
                  While I'm not that happy with the print options either, I don't usually
                  worry about it because the medium ALL work I do in Fireworks will be
                  viewed on is a computer monitor. It's the only place to give the work
                  some semblance of reality.

                  Print quality is gonna suck anyway, because the work is being produced
                  at 72 ppi, and on print, that is not particularly complementary. On the
                  rare occasion I need to create or a client insists on a printed version,
                  I can either screen grab it or save it as a PSD or TIFF and print it via
                  Photoshop.

                  As Linda has mentioned though in other threads, if it's very important
                  to you, fill in the wish form on Adobe's site. The more demand there is
                  for a feature, the more likely it will be included in an upcoming version.

                  --
                  Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
                  http://www.communityMX.com/
                  CommunityMX - Free Resources:
                  http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
                  ---
                  .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
                  Adobe Community Expert
                  http://tinyurl.com/2a7dyp
                  ---
                  See my work on Flickr
                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim_babbage/

                  Dooza wrote:
                  > Linda Rathgeber wrote:
                  >> The Pie Man wrote:
                  >>
                  >>> So problem solved, but I still am perplexed that Fireworks operates
                  >>> this way. I understand Fireworks isn't meant for creating print
                  >>> materials - but no option to rotate the paper when printing, or even
                  >>> a custom paper size? Geez!
                  >>
                  >> I can appreciate your frustration in this situation. :-) I have to say
                  >> that in the ten years I've been using Fireworks, I've never once
                  >> printed anything from it.
                  >
                  > Hi Linda,
                  > I am the opposite, whenever I need to show the boss something I print
                  > it, and have always been amazed at the lack of print options. I normally
                  > want to show the boss or whoever several variants, and its nice and easy
                  > to lay them on a table and for them to say yes or no.
                  >
                  > I remember when I first used Fireworks 3, I thought to myself that I am
                  > sure the next version will have better print options, but even now that
                  > we are on CS3, they haven't changed one bit.
                  >
                  > I guess if the demand was there then the changes would have been made by
                  > now, or maybe the ones with issues just haven't been vocal about it enough?
                  >
                  > Steve
                  • 6. Re: Rotate canvas - all pages?
                    The Pie Man Level 1
                    quote:

                    Originally posted by: Newsgroup User

                    Print quality is gonna suck anyway, because the work is being produced
                    at 72 ppi, and on print, that is not particularly complementary.


                    That's the thing though - with Fireworks you're talking a wholly vector based operation (unlike say Photoshop) so there's no reason you have to print at 72 dpi. If you want to print something (very rarely it's true, but for meetings with clients it's always best to have something to hand off), then all you do is change the dpi to whatever you like and it's still 100% sharp. Design at 72 dpi to keep Fireworks from bogging down, switch to something else when you want to print. Now if it actually had any print options like other modern pieces of software. I'm really surprised actually - how hard would it be to bring the Photoshop print options to another program? You're figure the code was modular enough to transport that over without too much trouble?
                    • 7. Re: Rotate canvas - all pages?
                      Level 7
                      The Pie Man wrote:
                      >
                      quote:

                      Originally posted by: Newsgroup User
                      >
                      > Print quality is gonna suck anyway, because the work is being produced
                      > at 72 ppi, and on print, that is not particularly complementary.

                      >
                      > That's the thing though - with Fireworks you're talking a wholly vector based
                      > operation (unlike say Photoshop) so there's no reason you have to print at 72
                      > dpi. If you want to print something (very rarely it's true, but for meetings
                      > with clients it's always best to have something to hand off), then all you do
                      > is change the dpi to whatever you like and it's still 100% sharp. Design at 72
                      > dpi to keep Fireworks from bogging down, switch to something else when you want
                      > to print. Now if it actually had any print options like other modern pieces of
                      > software. I'm really surprised actually - how hard would it be to bring the
                      > Photoshop print options to another program? You're figure the code was modular
                      > enough to transport that over without too much trouble?
                      >

                      Not necessarily; Fireworks handles bitmaps just as well as it handles
                      vectors. If you're doing all your artwork as vectors, with no bitmap
                      fills or other bitmap elements then yes, you can scale as you want.

                      Fireworks and PS are two very different programs. I have no idea how
                      easy - or hard - it would be to print PS print functionality to FW.
                      Personally, I'd rather see them make Acrobat do the heavy lifting in
                      that area (FW export to PDF) and focus delegate resources to more
                      oft-used (but still hurting) features with in the app.

                      --
                      Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
                      http://www.communityMX.com/
                      CommunityMX - Free Resources:
                      http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
                      ---
                      .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
                      Adobe Community Expert
                      http://tinyurl.com/2a7dyp
                      ---
                      See my work on Flickr
                      http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim_babbage/
                      • 8. Re: Rotate canvas - all pages?
                        Level 7
                        Jim Babbage .:CMX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:. wrote:
                        > Fireworks and PS are two very different programs. I have no idea how
                        > easy - or hard - it would be to print PS print functionality to FW.
                        > Personally, I'd rather see them make Acrobat do the heavy lifting in
                        > that area (FW export to PDF) and focus delegate resources to more
                        > oft-used (but still hurting) features with in the app.

                        I would agree with you there, they are different beasts.

                        I recently had to design a flyer for a party that was being printed
                        professionally, and used a mixture of programs to achieve my goal.

                        It was pure vector based artwork designed in Fireworks, I exported as
                        PSD, downloaded the Photoshop trial, imported and changed to CMYK and
                        saved as PDF. It was my first attempt at print ready art and I was very
                        pleased with the printed designs. I was then asked to do an A3 poster
                        and again used the same method. The only thing was the time it took to
                        export then import and change the colour to CMYK.

                        If Fireworks could do this I would be a happy man, but its not the end
                        of the world if I can't.

                        Steve
                        • 9. Re: Rotate canvas - all pages?
                          Level 7
                          Dooza wrote:
                          > Jim Babbage .:CMX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:. wrote:
                          >> Fireworks and PS are two very different programs. I have no idea how
                          >> easy - or hard - it would be to print PS print functionality to FW.
                          >> Personally, I'd rather see them make Acrobat do the heavy lifting in
                          >> that area (FW export to PDF) and focus delegate resources to more
                          >> oft-used (but still hurting) features with in the app.
                          >
                          > I would agree with you there, they are different beasts.
                          >
                          > I recently had to design a flyer for a party that was being printed
                          > professionally, and used a mixture of programs to achieve my goal.
                          >
                          > It was pure vector based artwork designed in Fireworks, I exported as
                          > PSD, downloaded the Photoshop trial, imported and changed to CMYK and
                          > saved as PDF. It was my first attempt at print ready art and I was very
                          > pleased with the printed designs. I was then asked to do an A3 poster
                          > and again used the same method. The only thing was the time it took to
                          > export then import and change the colour to CMYK.
                          >
                          > If Fireworks could do this I would be a happy man, but its not the end
                          > of the world if I can't.
                          >
                          > Steve

                          Mixing apps is something everyone does to some extent. But if it's
                          something as particular as 4-colour printing, I'd prefer to leave it tot
                          he apps designed for print.

                          I don't expect - or want FW to ever start getting involved with CMYK.
                          It's a screen based app. CMYK is a whole 'nother beast in itself. FW
                          doesn't understand color profiles, or even channels the way PS, AI ID do.

                          --
                          Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
                          http://www.communityMX.com/
                          CommunityMX - Free Resources:
                          http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
                          ---
                          .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
                          Adobe Community Expert
                          http://tinyurl.com/2a7dyp
                          ---
                          See my work on Flickr
                          http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim_babbage/
                          • 10. Re: Rotate canvas - all pages?
                            The Pie Man Level 1
                            This has definitely wandered way tangential to the main topic. I agree with what everyone here has said. Fireworks is not an app made with printing in mind. That doesn't change anything about the original post however - the ability to rotate the canvas and how that applies to pages and shared layers.

                            The ability to rotate the canvas has nothing to do with printing (otherwise it probably wouldn't be there in the first place - as demonstrated by the lack of an ability to print paper either 'landscape' or 'portait'). I do, however, think the functionality of rotate canvas in relation to pages and shared layers is so unintuitive as to be bordering on a bug. If nothing else it seems like there should be an option to rotate all pages when rotating the canvas.
                            • 11. Re: Rotate canvas - all pages?
                              Level 7
                              Uh-huh!

                              FW is basically a bitmap-vector hybrid.

                              It handles both bitmap and vectors with relative ease.

                              The Pie Man wrote:
                              >
                              quote:

                              Originally posted by: Newsgroup User
                              >
                              > Print quality is gonna suck anyway, because the work is being produced
                              > at 72 ppi, and on print, that is not particularly complementary.

                              >
                              > That's the thing though - with Fireworks you're talking a wholly vector based
                              > operation (unlike say Photoshop) so there's no reason you have to print at 72
                              > dpi. If you want to print something (very rarely it's true, but for meetings
                              > with clients it's always best to have something to hand off), then all you do
                              > is change the dpi to whatever you like and it's still 100% sharp. Design at 72
                              > dpi to keep Fireworks from bogging down, switch to something else when you want
                              > to print. Now if it actually had any print options like other modern pieces of
                              > software. I'm really surprised actually - how hard would it be to bring the
                              > Photoshop print options to another program? You're figure the code was modular
                              > enough to transport that over without too much trouble?
                              >