33 Replies Latest reply on Nov 22, 2014 4:59 AM by BobLevine

    fixed layout epub

    marsalldeelen

      I want to create fixed layout epub publications that will be distributed on clients their own website, so not through iTunes store. i can do this with iBook Author, but would much rather prefer to work within indesign (it is a much user more user friendly program).

       

      Is it possible to create within DPS an epub book in fixed layout without having to publish it in an apple store?

       

      kind regards,

      Marcel Deelen

      TBWA

        • 1. Re: fixed layout epub
          BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

          Fixed layout epub is not DPS. Figure out what you want and we'll be able to

          help you a lot better.

          • 2. Re: fixed layout epub
            Micha_K

            Hi Marcel,

             

            there is no easy way to create a fixed layout epub with an Adobe product. They made a halfhearted attempt to implement fixed layout epub export in InDesign CS6, but they canceled it in InDesign CC. The only Adobe program you could use to create the XHTML and CSS files is Dreamweaver, but you have to know the epub 3.0 structure well to succeed. Of course you also have to get the JavaScripts for the widgets.

             

            Kind regards

             

            Michael

            • 3. Re: fixed layout epub
              marsalldeelen Level 1

              Thank you Micha, it seems to me that this is highly confusing.

               

              Adobe needs to communicate clearer what they mean with digital publishing, to my ears digital publishing are ebooks and not apps. Apps are not published they are released. Digital Release Suite would fit the bill a whole lot better.

               

              It is a great shame that Adobe is not jumping onto the whole iBooks Author program, as long as that program still is so horrible to work with it would be easy for them to keep people into inDesign instead of forcing them to use another program to create close to the same content for an epub.

               

              Anyways, thanks ones again for the clear response!

              • 4. Re: fixed layout epub
                marsalldeelen Level 1

                Adobe needs to communicate clearer what they mean with digital publishing, to my ears digital publishing are ebooks and not apps. Apps are not published they are released. Digital Release Suite would fit the bill a whole lot better.

                 

                It is a great shame that Adobe is not jumping onto the whole iBooks Author program, as long as that program still is so horrible to work with it would be easy for them to keep people into inDesign instead of forcing them to use another program to create close to the same content for an epub.

                 

                To give you a bit more detail about what I wanted: I have a brochure made for print and have remade it to fir portrait and landscape iPad format, I have added a bunch of interactive layers (using the Folio things) like scrollable text frames, zoomable pictures and roulating image slides. I have been previewing the content using Adobe Viewer untill all was perfect, then as I wanted to export it as an epub I realized that what I have been previewing I can not export at all.

                 

                We want to make digital brochures with added interaction that clients can host on their own website as a downloadable epub. We dont want to do this through any of the apple stores since that process is to cumbersome.

                 

                It seems now that Adobe is unable to create these files and I sadly have to work with iBooks Author, really was hoping to beable to avoid that non-professional program.

                 

                Do you know if some third party plugins might be able to accomodate my wishes?

                • 5. Re: fixed layout epub
                  Micha_K Level 1

                  Hi Marcel,

                   

                  I agree with you that iBooks Author is horrible to work with if you know InDesign. There is a plugin for InDesign by Aquafadas which is able to create both apps and fixed layout epub files. Unfortunately there are still some bugs, but it is worth trying.

                   

                  Kind regards

                   

                  Michael

                  • 6. Re: fixed layout epub
                    Douglas.Waterfall Adobe Employee

                    Hi Marcel:

                     

                    I can speak for InDesign, but not for DPS as that is a separate team.

                     

                    So you created your document using the DPS plugins, but you still wanted to export it as a fixed layout EPUB?

                     

                    Did you have an expectation that it would behave the same way in an EPUB viewer (such as iBooks or Kobo) that it did in the Adobe Viewer?

                     

                    What Fixed Layout EPUB viewers were you hoping to target?

                     

                    I would be happy to discuss this off-forum if you have the time and interest.

                     

                    Douglas Waterfall

                    Architect, InDesign Engineering

                    douglas.waterfall@adobe.com

                    • 7. Re: fixed layout epub
                      Douglas.Waterfall Adobe Employee

                      Actually, what was in CS6 (and pulled in CC) was not EPUB 3 Fixed Layout, it was something completely different without any publicly available reader to render it.

                       

                      Douglas Waterfall

                      Architect, InDesign Engineering

                      • 8. Re: fixed layout epub
                        Felipe - dualpixel Level 3

                        hi,

                         

                        You can produce Apple Fixed Layout ePUB starting with InDesign Files and continuous editing HTML files. This ePUB can be sell in your site but can be read only iBooks reader. I have some exemple

                        https://www.dropbox.com/s/gw1cahftlayz7i9/FixedLayoutExample.epub

                         

                        I have a course about how produce Fixed Layout (in portuguese) - http://www.dualpixel.com.br/epub-layout-fixo.html

                        But you can find great information in site like lynda.com

                         

                        __Regards

                        • 9. Re: fixed layout epub
                          Micha_K Level 1

                          Hi Felipe,

                           

                          thank you for the example, but I don't think that's what we are talking about. Of course you can produce a fixed layout ePub 3.0 with every HTML or text editor, especially if there are no interactive elements. But it would be interesting to use the interactive features of InDesign like slideshows (MSO) or audios and videos without any additional work. And there are other ePub 3.0 readers beside iBooks, though they may not be perfect. Try Readium or Kobo for instance.

                           

                          Kind regards

                           

                          Michael

                          • 10. Re: fixed layout epub
                            AnneMarie Concepcion Adobe Community Professional

                            I have a course on lynda.com about how to create fixed-layout EPUBs from scratch, from PDF, or from InDesign (any version):

                            http://j.mp/lynda-fxle

                             

                            It's a couple years old. Since recording that, if you're starting with an InDesign file, I'd suggest using Rorohiko's ePubCrawler, a free script. He includes video tutorials on how to tweak the script.

                            http://www.rorohiko.com/wordpress/manuals/fixed-layout-epub-assistant-in-indesign-epubcraw ler/

                             

                            Also, in recent issues of InDesign Magazine I've been reviewing plug-ins for InDesign that help you create fixed layout epubs, some of which let you include interactivity (video, sound, links, etc.).

                            http://indesignsecrets.com/issues

                             

                            The likely InDesign plug-ins you should look at are:

                            CircularFLO http://www.circularsoftware.com/

                            Flipick: http://www.flipick.com/  (look under conversion services. They do have an InDesign plugin)

                            Aquafadas: http://www.aquafadas.com/en/digital-publishing/book/

                             

                            Hope this helps ... keep following InDesignSecrets.com and ePubSecrets.com for more info on this as it develops! Very hot area right now.

                             

                            AM

                            • 11. Re: fixed layout epub
                              Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              Hi, Anne-Marie!

                               

                              Let me add something to that discussion which is very refreshing…

                               

                              For publishing in eBook format for the iPad (or Apple's iBook Reader on OSX 9 Mavericks) and only for that, I think Apple's iBooks Author is in the pole position (so to say). The "only" problem is transporting or converting layouts from InDesign to iBooks Author.

                               

                              I mean, iBooks Author is far from perfect, lacking some features I'd like to see like good hyphenation for the German language etc.pp.

                               

                              Having InDesign files to start with,  fortunately you don't have to start from scratch!

                               

                              Let me explain this in more detail:

                               

                              In February I gave a course in working with iBooks Author for students at a university here in Germany. The course took around five days. Goal: transforming several InDesign documents (a 200 pages book) to iBooks Author, adding some interactive widgets.

                               

                              It was quite an endeavour, an experiment, what could be accomplished in that time frame starting at point zero (no knowledge of iBooks Author and some experience with InDesign by the students). To put it mildly: all in all it was a  very interesting week. The project was finished for good with two or three days on top where the students were working unattended.

                               

                              We were lucky, that:


                              1. iBooks Author could place simple PDFs exported out of InDesign. We used these as visual guide lines for the basic layout. We removed these before publishing to the iBook format.

                               

                              Explanation:

                              Though placed PDFs stay as PDFs in iBooks Author's own iba-files, the published iBook files will contain rendered JPEGs of that kind of assets.

                               

                              2. you can copy/paste formatted text from InDesign to iBooks Author (yepp!)

                               

                              To my knowledge unfortunately iBooks Author is not scriptable. Would be great, but isn't. That could have helped building paragraph styles and character styles that would match the ones in InDesign. But sometimes you cannot have it all.

                               

                              3. I could write an ExtendScript script for InDesign to read out position and size of placed graphics in InDesign to present the numbers adapted to the coordinate system of iBooks Author in a way that the students could copy/paste the values to the appropriate panels in iBooks Author. So placing and cropping assets in iBooks Author was not such a big deal.

                               

                               

                              I know that fixed-layout ePub has to go a long way. Or better: the implementation of the "standards" that are already set. And I know that Apple is playing "foul" with its own implementation by adding things no other reader but the one from Apple can decipher.

                               

                              We need more players in the field, and Adobe could be one, that see the broader application of fixed-layout ePub, not only centered to one platform. InDesign will evolve in that area. No doubt. But 3rd-party companies like Ajar Productions with products like in5 are the pioneers in transforming features not much attended by Adobe ( e.g. the basic animation features of InDesign or some of the DPS Overlay features ) to workable HTML5 code.

                               

                              Uwe

                              • 12. Re: fixed layout epub
                                Micha_K Level 1

                                Hi Uwe,

                                 

                                on the Frankfurter Buchmesse I've visited Bookry. They are producing custom widgets for iBooks Author and they presented a new InDesign plug-in, which is able to convert InDesign files into iBook files (actually the plug-in is creating script labels and the conversion takes place on the Bookry server).

                                 

                                Meanwhile the plug-in can be downloaded on bookry.com. There is also a webinar: http://youtu.be/-z3goyov0SY

                                 

                                I think this seems to be quite interesting.

                                 

                                Regards

                                 

                                Michael

                                • 13. Re: fixed layout epub
                                  Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  Hi, Michael!


                                  Quite interesting. Thank you for sharing this.


                                  I already had an eye on Bookry. At the time I was doing the iBooks Author workshop "From InDesign to iBooks Author" this plug-in wasn't ready or not advertised very well.

                                   

                                  However, after seeing this demo on YouTube one must admit that this is a tool in its infancy. But very promising.

                                   

                                  What I am missing is something like a control center, where all the settings already made are listed and the user is getting an overview of what is already done and what has to be done to finish the project.

                                   

                                  Maybe this is the wrong place to discuss things like that.

                                   

                                  That said, is there a dedicated sub forum for questions revolving around ePub or eBooks with InDesign? If not, there should be one. Apart from this DPS forum and the "normal" InDesign forum.

                                   

                                  I think there are a lot of people who cannot tell apart the two technological principles or routes we can take publishing on  tablet or mobile devices: app creation and eBook creation.

                                   

                                  So to say: The people who are focused more on eBooks need a home …

                                   

                                  Uwe

                                   

                                  PS. You mentioned script labels. Relying on this method has its pros and cons.

                                  I will not go into details here. Though worthwhile noting this.

                                  • 14. Re: fixed layout epub
                                    AnneMarie Concepcion Adobe Community Professional

                                    Having an EPUB or eBook-specific forum here is a GREAT idea. There is none now. I'm not a forum admin, maybe Bob can see if it's possible to set up?

                                     

                                    Right now, everyone is using the InDesign forum for epub-related posts. Just do a search on epub there and you'll see a few posts a day are being written.

                                     

                                    I would also suggest the ePub and eBook forum on InDesignSecrets.com (I'm co-host), which gets a fair amount of traffic:

                                    http://indesignsecrets.com/forum/epub-and-ebook

                                     

                                    Anyone can read the messages, but you have to register (free) to post, just like here.

                                     

                                    AM

                                    • 15. Re: fixed layout epub
                                      AnneMarie Concepcion Adobe Community Professional

                                      Also, for anyone interested in creating Fixed Layout EPUBs from InDesign, may I call your attention to this tweet last week from Douglas Waterfall, senior InDesign engineer (he's posted a couple times in this thread already):

                                       

                                      Interested in EPUB3 FXL export from @InDesign? Join pre-release and help the InDesign EPUB team make it better. dwaterfa@adobe.com

                                       

                                       

                                      the original:

                                      https://twitter.com/AdobeDWaterfall/status/449603828237619200

                                       

                                      I've never seen an Adobe manager invite people to be in their prerelease (beta) program on Twitter before, so this is a biggie.

                                       

                                      AM

                                      • 16. Re: fixed layout epub
                                        BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                        That is an excellent idea, AM.

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        Would you see this as a stand alone forum or a sub forum of the InDesign forum?

                                        • 17. Re: fixed layout epub
                                          AnneMarie Concepcion Adobe Community Professional

                                          Whatever DPS is, I'd guess, since it's the same idea. Create it in InDesign, but then publishing is another matter.

                                           

                                          Is this a stand-alone forum?

                                           

                                           

                                           

                                          AM

                                          • 18. Re: fixed layout epub
                                            BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                            Stand alone. Let me see what I can do.

                                            • 19. Re: fixed layout epub
                                              Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                              Bob wrote:

                                              Would you see this as a stand alone forum or a sub forum of the InDesign forum?

                                               

                                              @Bob – when I suggested a "sub forum" I meant a forum in the category "InDesign" like the forums listed under the "Related Forums" section in (DPS is amongst that):

                                               

                                              http://forums.adobe.com/community/indesign

                                               

                                              So in fact, what you mean with "stand alone" is  the same kind of forum I was intending when I said "sub forum" :-)

                                               

                                              Would be great having one.

                                               

                                              Uwe

                                              • 20. Re: fixed layout epub
                                                Gusgsm Level 2

                                                Having an EPUB or eBook-specific forum here is a GREAT idea.

                                                 

                                                +1

                                                 

                                                Gustavo Sánchez

                                                • 21. Re: fixed layout epub
                                                  BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                  Have at it, kids.

                                                   

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  It’s a sub forum of the InDesign forum since we’d like to keep it specific to Adobe products.

                                                   

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  http://forums.adobe.com/community/indesign/indesign_epub

                                                  • 22. Re: fixed layout epub
                                                    AnneMarie Concepcion Adobe Community Professional

                                                    Great, thank you Bob!

                                                     

                                                    Can you add an announcement ("sticky") post to the InDesign forum, like the one announcing the DPS forum?  That will help people find their way over .... or down, as it were. ;-D  I'll spread the word too, and on epubsecrets.com.

                                                     

                                                    I don't suppose you can move threads with "epub" in their subject over to the new subforum can you ...

                                                     

                                                    AM

                                                    • 23. Re: fixed layout epub
                                                      BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                      Sure thing, AM.

                                                       

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      If I see posts pertaining to EPUB going forward I’ll move them there.

                                                      • 24. Re: fixed layout epub
                                                        BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                        Moved to EPUB forum.

                                                        • 25. Re: fixed layout epub
                                                          Steve Werner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                          Good work, Bob!

                                                          • 26. Re: fixed layout epub
                                                            BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                            We aim to please!

                                                            • 27. Re: fixed layout epub
                                                              Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                              Well done, Bob!

                                                              Uwe

                                                              • 28. Re: fixed layout epub
                                                                AnneMarie Concepcion Adobe Community Professional

                                                                Bob thanks so much!

                                                                 

                                                                If I had known it was this easy I would've asked months ago. ;-D

                                                                 

                                                                AM

                                                                • 29. Re: fixed layout epub
                                                                  BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                                  Who said was it easy?

                                                                  • 30. Re: fixed layout epub
                                                                    Douglas.Waterfall Adobe Employee

                                                                    Our first support for EPUB3 Fixed Layout is now available with the 2014 (June 18th) update to Creative Cloud.

                                                                     

                                                                    Download the trial and let us know how we can improve it.

                                                                     

                                                                    Douglas Waterfall

                                                                    Architect, InDesign Engineering

                                                                    • 31. Re: fixed layout epub
                                                                      marsalldeelen Level 1

                                                                      I realised the update, it was a  nice little big surprise!

                                                                       

                                                                      Thanks for always improving.

                                                                      • 32. Re: fixed layout epub
                                                                        Dine88

                                                                        Is there any batch Process to export EPUB 3 Fixed Layout for multiple documents?

                                                                        • 33. Re: fixed layout epub
                                                                          BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                                          No, but like anything else I’m sure it can be scripted.