16 Replies Latest reply on Sep 8, 2013 1:54 PM by ssprengel

    Major BUG in DNG conversion of Fuji x100s raw files.

    filmpictures

      I use an imac with latest os10.8.4 and I converted RAF =raw files from fuji x100s to dng format with DNG Converter 8.1.0.43.

       

      I have never seen such a horrifically bad problem in 15+ years. PS user of very long time.

       

      I attached 2 image files to the problem given by another member who was trying to use xrite.

       

      I am posting here as it is a problem of interest to anyone who is using the x100s or considering it.

       

      http://forums.adobe.com/message/5634178#5634178

        • 1. Re: Major BUG in DNG conversion of Fuji x100s raw files.
          adriana ohlmeyer Adobe Employee

          May I suggest that you download the DNG converter 8.2 Release Candidate and process the same file again? Thank you!

          http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/cameraraw8-2.html

          • 2. Re: Major BUG in DNG conversion of Fuji x100s raw files.
            filmpictures Level 1

            Hi Adriana

             

            I downloaded the new camera raw and the problem is still there exactly as before.

             

            I am opening the DNG file in PS CS3 if that is of any interest. Is there anything i am doing wrong in the options I am taking in DNG Converter.

             

            Maybe I'm stupid, I have been in the past.

             

            I have used PS since 2.0 so I'm not a newbie.

             

            Here is the new converted file attached fYI.

            dngbeta.jpg

            • 3. Re: Major BUG in DNG conversion of Fuji x100s raw files.
              adriana ohlmeyer Adobe Employee

              Would you mind sending us the raw file. You can send it directly to me. aohlmeye@adobe.com. Thank you!

              • 4. Re: Major BUG in DNG conversion of Fuji x100s raw files.
                ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                I think the problem is that you need to set your DNG Compatibility options to something old enough to support the CS3 ACR version. 

                 

                I’m guessing you’re leaving it set to 7.1 or whatever the newest is instead of dialing it back to “Camera Raw 4.6 and later”.

                 

                The X-Trans demosaicking algorithm changed with 7.1 and if you try to use DNG data from that with older ACR’s it has holes like you’re seeing.

                • 5. Re: Major BUG in DNG conversion of Fuji x100s raw files.
                  adriana ohlmeyer Adobe Employee

                  Yes, that is exactly what I was going to test for him. -adriana

                  • 6. Re: Major BUG in DNG conversion of Fuji x100s raw files.
                    MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee

                    The issue here is that older versions of Camera Raw (such as ACR 6 for CS5) do not have specialized interpolation routines for the Fuji X-Trans sensor (6x6 mosaic pattern). Technically, these older ACR versions can read any mosaic pattern, but the baseline interpolation quality may be poor.

                     

                     

                    The solution here is to change the Camera Raw compatibility (see the Preferences section of DNG Converter) to match the version of Camera Raw that you have. For example, if you're using CS5.5 with Camera Raw 6.7, choose the setting "Camera Raw 6.6 and later". Then convert the RAF files to DNG. The resulting DNG files should open in ACR 6.7 under CS5.5 and look much better. (Technically, the resulting DNG file has already been demosaiced by DNG Converter and is stored as linear RGB data.)

                     

                     

                    Eric

                    • 7. Re: Major BUG in DNG conversion of Fuji x100s raw files.
                      filmpictures Level 1

                      Thank you for ALL for the help.

                       

                      Adriana thank you for the offer to look at the raw file.

                       

                      I looked at SSprengel's suggestion and took the same file and converted it using DNG 8.2.0.73 beta but I ran the conversion using each of the different preference options. The problem is solved.

                       

                      Preference 2.4  conversion is good

                      Preference 4.1  conversion is good

                      Preference 4.6  conversion is good

                      Preference 5.4  conversion is good

                      Preference 6.6  conversion is good

                      Preference 7.1  conversion is BAD as seen above but it did generate a thumbnail preview.

                       

                      I then looked at the GOOD files to see if any particular preference setting gave a better image using PS CS3 (Camera Raw 4.0). So far as I can see they are all identical.

                       

                      I then looked at the DNG files with LR3 ( version of Camera Raw is 6.6) and I could not see any difference between the images - all identical.

                       

                      So my apologies for my over excitement.

                       

                      Why did the change from preference 6.6 to 7.1 cause the problem? If I upgraded to a newer version of PS or LR to get a newer version of camera raw would there be a better image to work with ( in comparison to what i currently can get with DNG using the preference options 2.4 - 6.6 which give me a DNG file converted from the .raf file.

                       

                      My question is does a newer version of DNG give a better file?

                       

                      Thank you if you can help me understand this better.

                      • 8. Re: Major BUG in DNG conversion of Fuji x100s raw files.
                        filmpictures Level 1

                        For the sake of completeness.  The DNG filesize for all the GOOD conversions (2.4-6.6) was 57.8MB the 7.1 conversion was    22.9 MB  (the original .raf file was     33.8MB) and when I set the option to include the original raw file using 6.6 option I got a file of  83.2 MB.

                        • 9. Re: Major BUG in DNG conversion of Fuji x100s raw files.
                          MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee

                          The compatibility options are really to indicate which version of ACR you intend to use to read the raw file.  Then the DNG Converter can decide whether it needs to do any additional processing to the file so that the (older) version of ACR can read it properly. 

                           

                          In the case of the Fuji X-Trans sensor with its 6x6 mosaic pattern (which requires a specialized interpolation routine for high quality results), the key distinction is whether DNG Converter performs the interpolation routine, or the older version of ACR performs the interpolation routine.  If you choose "Camera Raw 7.1 and later" compatibility, then you're indicating that you plan to process the image using Camera Raw version 7.1 or later (e.g., ACR 7.4, ACR 8.1, etc.).  These newer versions of ACR contain specialized interpolation routines for the X-Trans sensor, so the DNG file that is produced with "Camera Raw 7.1 and later" compatibility will be stored in the original mosaic form.  When you read these files in ACR 7.1 and later, the specialized X-Trans interpolation routines will be used to process the files.

                           

                          If you choose "Camera Raw 6.6 and later" compatibility, then you're indicating that you plan to process the image using CR 6.6 and later (e.g., ACR 6.7, ACR 7.0, ACR 7.1, etc.).  Some of these older versions of ACR (such as ACR 6.7) do not have specialized interpolation routines for the X-Trans sensor.  The DNG Converter understands this, and therefore performs the X-trans specific interpolation itself to produce linear RGB data, which is then stored into the DNG.  So, the DNG file produced in this case does not contain the original mosaic data, but instead contains interpolated linear RGB data.  The older ACR versions (like 6.7) can open this linear RGB data in the DNG directly, without having to perform any specialized X-Trans demosaicing (remember, this is important, because ACR 6.7 doesn't contain that specialized logic).  This is also why the DNG files in this case are significantly larger in size compared to the images in the first case: they contain linear RGB data (3 color channels) instead of mosaic data (1 channel).

                          • 10. Re: Major BUG in DNG conversion of Fuji x100s raw files.
                            filmpictures Level 1

                            Thank you for that very clear and comprehensive answer.

                             

                            Does the  newer versions of ACR which contain specialized interpolation routines for the X-Trans sensor provide a better image than the

                            older versions of ACR (such as ACR 6.7) which do not have specialized interpolation routines for the X-Trans sensor?

                             

                            Best Wishes.

                            • 11. Re: Major BUG in DNG conversion of Fuji x100s raw files.
                              ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              Of course, although perhaps still not as good as what the camera does, itself.  Why would Adobe have gone to the trouble of re-engineering things and releasing it to their customers if the result was no change or even worse image quality?

                              • 12. Re: Major BUG in DNG conversion of Fuji x100s raw files.
                                MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee

                                filmpictures wrote:

                                 

                                Does the  newer versions of ACR which contain specialized interpolation routines for the X-Trans sensor provide a better image than the

                                older versions of ACR (such as ACR 6.7) which do not have specialized interpolation routines for the X-Trans sensor?

                                 

                                 

                                Yes.

                                • 13. Re: Major BUG in DNG conversion of Fuji x100s raw files.
                                  filmpictures Level 1

                                  Thank you.

                                   

                                  It is of course true that Adobe changed ACR in various part. Otherwise why would they release a new version. I was inquiring if the new version included a change which affected the image quality as opposed to tweaks to various processing tools.

                                   

                                  Has anyone taken the same file and ran it through older versions of ACR and also the latest version of ACR to see if there is a noticeable change (in shadows or midtones or highlights)?

                                   

                                  Best wishes.

                                  • 14. Re: Major BUG in DNG conversion of Fuji x100s raw files.
                                    ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    The interpolation changed in all Adobe tools, not just the DNG Converter if that’s what you were asking.   It was the interplay between the new algorithm in the DNG Converter and the old algorithm in the old ACR plug-in, due to the improper setting of the compatibility level, that caused the original problem of the holes.  Both the new ACR plug-in and the new DNG Converters, along with Lightroom, received the new algorithm at the same time.

                                     

                                    If you’re asking whether Adobe changed the toning and/or camera profiles for the X100 at the same time as the X-Trans interpolation algorithm changed, I think the answer is No; however, ACR 7.x+ do have the newer PV2012 toning model so toning changed across the board for all cameras around the same time but not exactly the same version as the X-Trans interpolation improvements. 

                                     

                                    From your perspective as someone still using CS3 and ACR 4.x, upgrading to CS6/ACR 8.x or PS-CC/ACR 8.x, or LR5.x would give you an improved processing of raw files from any camera, not just the X-trans sensor cameras.

                                    • 15. Re: Major BUG in DNG conversion of Fuji x100s raw files.
                                      filmpictures Level 1

                                      Many thanks for the very detailed reply. I have LR3 which uses camera raw 6.6 so I guess I am getting 98% out of my x100s raw file so I reckon I'll stay as I am.

                                       

                                      thank you all for the help.

                                      • 16. Re: Major BUG in DNG conversion of Fuji x100s raw files.
                                        ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        If you use a new DNG Converter in old compatibility mode to convert the X100 raw files into linear DNGs with the missing holes interpolated around, then you’ll have the more detailed demoasicking; however, you’re missing the new toning model from LR 4+, I believe, but as long as your decision is based on knowledge instead of the lack thereof, fine.