31 Replies Latest reply on Sep 5, 2013 8:45 AM by ForumFool

    Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides

    ForumFool

      How do I prevent this stupid albeit expensive InDesign CS6 from inserting the atrocious Minion Pro font into my imported text? I reformat all my source documents (MS Word 7) into Times New Roman 11. I have all paragraph style in the InDesign Templates formatted in Times New Roman 11. Every other style is also Times New Roman 11 (except specialty situation styles). I do text formatting in the MS Word source document to establish font colors, superscript, etc, but preserve Times New Roman 11. No matter! When I copy from the Word source document and paste into InDesign and then apply the paragraph style at a point in the paragraph, that execrable Minion Pro font inserts itself into the paragraph. Since I have other overrides to consider (superscript, subscript, font color, etc), selecting override is not an option because I lose them.

       

      Is there a way to convice InDesign CS6 to respect my choices of Times New Roman everywhere I have designated it in style, default, normal, basic pagraph, EVERYWHERE?? This is truly annoying after such a significant investment. I cannot delete that hated font because I am told it is a System Font??

       

      Thanks in advance

        • 1. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
          Ellis home Level 4

          Have you tried File/Place instead of copy/paste?

          • 2. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
            ForumFool Level 1

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            My situation does not allow that for text. I must build the InDesign file

            incrementally section by section, sometimes paragraph by paragraph, because of

            extraneous noise and material in the source documents.

             

            Thanks much,

             

            RB

            • 3. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
              Ellis home Level 4

              Did you say you have designated the basic paragraph to Times New Roman in Indesign before copying/pasting? Because when I do that, ID keeps the Times New Roman.

              • 4. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                ForumFool Level 1

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                Yes, when ID is open without a document, the basic paragraph font is Times New

                Roman, 11 pt, leading 12, exactly like the standard templates I built.

                 

                When I open my ID templates (without pasting or placing anything), the basic

                paragraph and normal paragraph styles are exactly the same as above.

                 

                A copy-paste of a Word document formatted in Times New Roman 11 into the open

                template document incurs the wrath of Minion Pro.

                 

                Making me nuts.

                 

                Thanks

                • 5. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                  Joel Cherney Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  Your workflow sounds like it's hobbling you. Also, it sounds like you can't change it. You sound so angry that I am not going to try to ask you about why you are stuck with this workflow. My gut feeling is that you have a character style applying Minion upon pasting into ID, but once again, given your emotional state, I don't want to talk you into trying to actually figure out what is going wrong.

                   

                  Instead, I'll just say that you can change your clipboard preferences to keep all of your Word formatting: Edit -> Preferences -> Clipboard Handling -> All Information. That way, you can choose TNR in Word and expect it to carry over to InDesign when you whack Control+V.

                  • 6. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                    Steve Werner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    Are you choosing Edit > Paste or Edit > Paste without Formatting?

                    • 7. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                      ForumFool Level 1

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                      Yes Joel, frustration is rampant. I have no control over the state of the

                      source documentation (MS Word), it is generated worldwide externally, I am

                      lucky to standardize it within MS Word (that is all that is standard). I must

                      edit them as received (as best I can), and eventually move them into the

                      layout templates piecemeal. That should be straightforward enough, and it was

                      for the most part in ID CS3. Clipboard Handling has always been All

                      Information, and I cannot use Paste Without Formatting because I need the

                      formatting established in the Word source documents.

                       

                      None of the character styles contain Minion Pro, so I have no idea about its

                      source. Which raises another annoyance. How do Character styles get inserted

                      in paragraph styles that specifically do not designate nor indicate any

                      character styles whatsoever? This happens without warning. At least there I

                      eliminate the offending character style with one click, but where does it come

                      from?

                       

                      What is TNR in Word?

                       

                      Thanks for your suggestion,

                      • 8. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                        ForumFool Level 1

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                        Cannot use paste without formatting. That deletes all of the formatting I need

                        from the MS Word source document.

                         

                        Thanks much,

                        • 9. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                          Joel Cherney Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          Clipboard Handling has always been All Information

                           

                          Now, that is odd. If you overtly select Times New Roman font (abbreviated TNR) in Word, and All Information is checked in InDesign's preferences, then there are comparatively few ways that Minion could be applied. InDesign is supposed to honor the Word formatting when All Information is checked.

                           

                          Check the name of the paragraph style of the text you've selected in Word against the name of the paragraph style you're pasting into in InDesign. If they have exactly the same name, then InDesign will apply the styling specified in the paragraph style in InDesign. That could be causing this problem.

                           

                          Are you working with strictly English/Latin script text? Are you using the ME (Middle East) edition of CS6?

                           

                          Can you share a demo file? A pair of demo files, I mean - one source Word doc from which to copy, and one target InDesign doc in which to paste? Because when I copy text from Word marked with Times New Roman and paste into CS6, it works as I'd expect, and Minion doesn't come into it.

                          • 10. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                            I don't want to annoy you any further, but are you certain the paragraph styles ALL have TNR set under Basic Character Formats in the style definition dialog, and it isn't just being applied as an override by setting it as the default in the Character Panel? Likewise, Minion isn't set in the Character pnel with no text selected?

                            • 11. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                              rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              Have you tried File/Place instead of copy/paste?

                               

                              My situation does not allow that for text. I must build the InDesign file

                              incrementally section by section, sometimes paragraph by paragraph, because of

                              extraneous noise and material in the source documents.

                               

                              You could place the Word doc into an ID galley then copy and paste from the galley into your template.

                               

                              When you Place you have complete control over the incoming styles via Place Options (check Show Import Options)

                               

                              Screen Shot 2013-09-04 at 8.11.51 PM.png

                              • 12. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                                Ellis home Level 4

                                For the sake of narrowing down the problem: what happens if you copy/paste into a fresh new document (not your template)?

                                • 13. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                                  ForumFool Level 1

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                                  I globally change all fonts in source documents to TNR size 11 pt upon

                                  receipt. There are no other fonts involved from the source documents except in

                                  tables and figures which I change to Franklin Gothic before copy/paste into

                                  the ID document. Minion Pro is found nowhere in any paragraph styles, nor in

                                  the 3 character styles I created (symbols for lists only).

                                   

                                  There is only one Times New Roman in the system. I looked at the MS Word

                                  styles, no Minion Pro. Calibri seems to be default for Normal and I am trying

                                  to figure out how to change that. Perhaps ID is confused by that Normal style

                                  on paste, even though everything has been changed to TNR, etc, and ID

                                  substitutes Minion Pro (?).

                                   

                                  I attempted to delete Minion Pro font in Windows. Not allowed - it is

                                  protected as a system font (?). However, I don't think it existed in this

                                  computer before the install of ID CS6, so it seems to have come from Adobe.

                                   

                                  Today I will attack this from the MS Word side by ensuring that the Word style

                                  is identical to the ID style before the copy/paste drill.

                                   

                                  For sure this is the English/Latin version of ID.

                                   

                                  Thanks for your interest and suggestions.

                                  • 14. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                                    ForumFool Level 1

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                                    Because of the work situation, TNR has been globally applied to everything

                                    except tables, figures, and occasionally in-text insertions, which are done

                                    manually with Franklin Gothic or another san serif. Minion Pro appears nowhere

                                    in either MS Word or ID, except in the font list, and I cannot delete it

                                    (Windows calls it a system font (?)).

                                     

                                    Although all source documents are globally changed to TNR upon receipt, the

                                    Normal style in Windows remains Calibri if I don't manually change that. I

                                    will try to do that for all source before I move text to ID to see what

                                    happens. Perhaps ID is confused by the Windows style designation and throws in

                                    Minion Pro for fun.

                                     

                                    Thank you for your interest and suggestions.

                                    • 15. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                                      ForumFool Level 1

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                                      I gave that a quick try, and ID turned all the font red, and threw out the

                                      formatting placed in the Word text. It did preserve Times New Roman, however.

                                      I suspect this would raise the complexity of this evolution substantially.

                                       

                                      Geeze, nothing like having to use 2 applications from competing companies.

                                       

                                      Thanks for your interest and suggestion.

                                      • 16. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                                        Michael Witherell Adobe Community Professional

                                        Did you make sure that all paragraph styles within your InDesign document are set to *Based On: No Paragraph Style* in order to make them independent of picking up any trickle down settings from the Basic Paragraph Style?

                                         

                                        When you have your Type tool inserted into the troubled text, is the Character Style panel telling you that it is set to *None*?

                                        • 17. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                                          Salah Fadlabi Level 5

                                          On MS option on Advance tab: Cut, copy, and paste there some option you can try it may help

                                          option.jpg

                                          • 18. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                                            ForumFool Level 1

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                                            I opened a new document in ID, created a plain vanilla text box, and copied a

                                            paragraph with a bunch of text formatting (colors, spacing, superscript) from

                                            Word and pasted it into ID. It pasted clean, and was designated as Normal+

                                            paragraph style (+ from colors, superscript, etc), and it applied a leading

                                            value different from that I put in ID's "basic paragraph", but the font

                                            remained Times New Roman. I changed the "basic paragraph" in ID to Times New

                                            Roman, 11 pt, leading 12 pts yesterday.

                                             

                                            I purged the few character styles I had, except for the ones with symbols I

                                            need for list bullets.

                                             

                                            I will attack this from the MS Word style side today, ensuring that each

                                            source document's Normal style is identical to the ID paragraph styles before

                                            the copy/paste evolution.

                                             

                                            Thank you for your interest and suggestion.

                                            • 19. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                                              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                              So it sounds like it is mostly working in a clean new document. Did your template start out in the same version you are using now, or are you converting the files to a new version in ID?

                                              • 20. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                                                BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                Are you really using Word 7? Wasn't that a DOS version?

                                                • 21. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                                                  ForumFool Level 1

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                                                  I looked at those. I found out from an MS Word geek that they are only

                                                  applicable/useful when pasting within Word documents, and some other MS Office

                                                  applications. Don't seem to have much effect when dropping into an Adobe

                                                  document, since that depends on how Adobe decided to accept the formatting.

                                                   

                                                  Thanks for your interest and suggestion.

                                                  • 22. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                                                    ForumFool Level 1

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                                                    2007. My bad.

                                                    • 23. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                                                      ForumFool Level 1

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                                                      The 2 templates were created and used in CS3 for years, moved into CS6 as part

                                                      of a computer replacement goat rope, and have been modified slightly from time

                                                      to time. Everything involving fonts in the templates has been reworked in CS6

                                                      to verify global standardization, and I have produced several publications in

                                                      CS6, using manual modifications to correct the goofy font substitutions.

                                                       

                                                      Every document I create in ID is new and clean, built using one of those

                                                      standard templates.

                                                       

                                                      Thanks for your interest.

                                                      • 24. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                                                        BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                        Anne-Marie Concepcion has a new Lynda.com course specifically about

                                                        Word/InDesign workflows. Check it out:

                                                        http://www.lynda.com/InDesign-tutorials/Using-Word-InDesign-Together/122930-2.html

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        This link will get you a one week trial: http://bit.ly/RS0GXs

                                                        • 25. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                                                          Michael Witherell Adobe Community Professional

                                                          I was just thinking that your Word paragraph styles should be defined to NOT be based on Normal; but rather on None.

                                                          • 26. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                                                            ForumFool Level 1

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                                                            Thanks Bob. I'll take advantage of that when I get this thing to the printers.

                                                             

                                                            I'm sure there's lots of "I didn't know that" in there.

                                                             

                                                            Thanks again for your interest and assistance.

                                                            • 27. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                                                              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                              ForumFool wrote:

                                                               

                                                              The 2 templates were created and used in CS3 for years, moved into CS6 as part

                                                              of a computer replacement goat rope, and have been modified slightly from time

                                                              to time.

                                                              My guess is this is the source of the problem. It doesn't happen with every file, but I've seen enough reports of errors, minor or even fatal, that crop up when directly converting legacy files in versions of ID newer than CS4. It's been especailly bad with CS3 files. Exporting from CS3 as .inx and opening that instead of the .indd or .indt file has been a reliable workaround.

                                                               

                                                              Frankly, if you have templates that you use all the time, I'd rebuild them from scratch in CS6, but you can try exporting the original as .inx and converting that, then save with a new name and give it a try.

                                                              • 28. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                                                                ForumFool Level 1

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                                                                I just looked at my MS Word (2007), None is not a style option. I have decided

                                                                to take each Word source document when received and modify the Normal style to

                                                                mirror the ID paragraph style (as closely as possible), and apply it globally

                                                                throughout the source document. I get these things from people who run the

                                                                gamut of word processing knowledge, interest, and sophistication, so I must

                                                                standardize them as much as possible upon receipt anyway. Applying a standard

                                                                Normal paragraph style will be just another simple step in the preparation

                                                                phase. If that helps the copy/paste into ID CS6, so much the better, if not,

                                                                I'm no worse off.

                                                                 

                                                                Thanks for your interest and suggestion.

                                                                • 29. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                                                                  ForumFool Level 1

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                                                                  Wow, never would have suspected that. Nothing like ensuring version

                                                                  compatibility across the product series, I guess. Microsoft and Apple seem to

                                                                  have been pretty good about it over the years, but perhaps Adobe didn't have

                                                                  time, or was worried about the price point of the next version (yeah, right!).

                                                                   

                                                                  I will try that when I finish draining this particular swamp, before I plunge

                                                                  into the next one.

                                                                   

                                                                  Sure can't hurt.

                                                                   

                                                                  Thanks much for your interest and recommendation.

                                                                  • 30. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                                                                    Michael Witherell Adobe Community Professional

                                                                    I should have said that when editing your paragraph styles in MS Word (by right-clicking and choosing Modify) you will see that your paragraph style will often be based on Normal. You can change that to No Style. In my previous post I asserted that you choose None. Rather, the correct choice is No Style. This makes styles move into InDesign more independently, without risking attribute change.

                                                                    • 31. Re: Prevent Paragraph Style Overrides
                                                                      ForumFool Level 1

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                                                                      Since the source documents are straightforward and uncomplicated, I have now

                                                                      decided to modify the Normal style itself and apply it globally throughout

                                                                      thosee Word documents. So far, every Normal style I select to modify has been

                                                                      based on No Style, so I guess I have slain that dragon, as long as I modify

                                                                      Normal correctly.

                                                                       

                                                                      Thank you for the information.