31 Replies Latest reply on Oct 10, 2017 9:43 PM by Dov Isaacs

    Using Typekit fonts in print projects

    Sandee Cohen Adobe Community Professional

      I have just started using a Typekit font for my demonstrations.

       

      However, I am interested in using it for my next book but I have questions.

       

      • Are the Typekit fonts suitable for print production? They are listed as OpenType. Is that ordinary OpenType?
      • The Typekit fonts don't show up in the Documet Fonts folder when the job is packaged? If I have to send native ID files to my publisher, what would they have to have to edit the job?
      • Are the fonts embedded in PDF files?
      • Anyone have any caveats I should know about?
        • 3. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
          Sandee Cohen Adobe Community Professional

          Miguel,

           

          Thanks for pointing me to the help file, but nothing there refers to PRINT PROJECTS.

           

          Typekit started as a web-based tool. I'm wondering if it can be used for print.

           

          I guess you don't know.

          • 4. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
            MiguelSousa Adobe Employee

            I'm not on the Typekit team, so yes I don't know.

            I pointed you to that page because it has information on how to contact the Typekit folks.

            • 5. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
              Ben, Typekit Support Adobe Employee

              Hi Sandee,

               

              This is Ben from Typekit. We have started rolling out the new font sync feature from Typekit in Creative Cloud.  You can learn more and sign up for access from this blog post:

              http://blog.typekit.com/2013/08/08/sign-up-for-early-access-to-desktop-font-sync/

               

              You’ll be able to sync the fonts to your computer and use them in all your applications for web mockups, print design, word processing, and more. This help page lists the foundries and faces that will be initially available for desktop:

              http://help.typekit.com/customer/portal/articles/1189216-coming-soon-syncing-fonts-to-your -desktop

               

              If you have any further questions, feel free to drop us a line at: support@typekit.com.

               

              Cheers,

              Ben

              • 6. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                Mario Badilla Level 1

                What Ben, from Typekit support, has been traying to tell us underhand is that typekit synced fonts are not allowed to export or package from inDesign, they suppose that the printer must have the fonts synced in their computers too, otherwise they are just floating in the cloud and you can use in your computer but not exporting it.

                 

                Thank you adobe, for an useless Typekit feature!!

                4 people found this helpful
                • 7. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                  Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

                  Mario,

                   

                  There is absolutely nothing underhanded about what Ben is telling you.

                   

                  There are two ways you can use the Typekit fonts for print publishing workflows.

                   

                  (1)     The first way is to compose in InDesign with the Typekit fonts as you would with any fonts that you have otherwise licensed and have installed on your desktop system. For the purposes of printing, export PDF (preferably PDF/X-4 settings) and send the resultant PDF file to your print service provider. All the Typekit fonts are properly embedded in the PDF file and your print service provider should have no issues with printing the text formatted with said fonts.

                   

                  (2)     The second method assumes that your print service provider (or some intermediary) is going to be doing further edits to your work before producing the PDF file that you would have created per (1) above. Typically you would “package” such documents into a directory structure that copies linked content and fonts. The only difference with the Typekit fonts is that such fonts are not included in the package. But since whoever is going to do those further edits and/or PDF export also needs the CC version of InDesign, they will also have access to the same Typekit fonts that you do via the Creative Cloud software. There is no need to package the fonts from them. If they have older CS versions of InDesign, they will not be able to open your CC version InDesign document anyway.

                   

                  So what is exactly the problem you are complaining about? You have access to the fonts. Your print service provider has access to the fonts (assuming they have the software necessary to even open up your InDesign document).

                   

                  The only difference is that Typekti fonts are not available as “loose” font files. You can't install them on any system that isn't currently licensed for the Adobe Creative Cloud.

                   

                  (For what it is worth, common practice notwithstanding, the ability to package the fonts - other than Typekit fonts and certain Asian fonts - used in an InDesign document does not free the recipient of the obligation to fully and properly license such fonts. The packaging operation is provided as a convenience, not as a substitute for properly licensing the digital assets in question!)

                   

                            - Dov

                  3 people found this helpful
                  • 8. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                    Cathlene Level 1

                    I have a question...

                     

                    If I'm using Creative Cloud with Typekit, and my printer has CS6 and I down save my file and collect it, how will they be able to get those fonts then?

                     

                    Cathlene

                    • 9. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                      Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

                      Cathlene,

                       

                      See my March 17 response in this thread. It does answer your question and offers you solutions including sending your print service provider a PDF/X-4 file exported from InDesign as opposed to sending the InDesign document and all the assets including fonts, links, etc. in a package. If your print service provider has CS6 only by virtue of a perpetual license, i.e. not a Creative Cloud subscription, he will not have access to the TypeKit fonts unless he licenses them separately from Adobe or whichever font foundry created the font for TypeKit. (Important note, not all the fonts provided by TypeKit are part of the Adobe Type Library and individually licensable from Adobe other than via TypeKit)

                       

                                - Dov.

                      • 10. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                        Red Mullet Level 1

                        Does this mean the end of paying for fonts and licensing?

                        • 11. Re: Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                          Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

                          Red Mullet wrote:

                           

                          Does this mean the end of paying for fonts and licensing?

                           

                          No it doesn't. Part of your subscription for Creative Cloud pays for the licensing.

                           

                          Plus, if you want to assure that you will always have access to the exact fonts that you use in a project, TypeKit might not be the right solution for you. Also understand that TypeKit's collection is only a small subset of the Adobe Type Library and a minuscule subset of fonts available from all foundries.

                           

                                    - Dov

                          • 12. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                            David Cardillo Level 1

                            Dov, I believe that is exactly the issue. What happens when you have to package something for someone who hasn't (or won't, for this reason among others) upgraded to the latest version of Creative Cloud?

                             

                            I work in an enterprise environment. We haven't switched, largely because Adobe still, more than a year later, has not released enterprise tools. We're receiving a growing number of media created in different versions of Creative Cloud. We insist that anyone submitting work send it in CS6-compatible formats.

                             

                            Now, what happens when our hapless freelancer, who used a font library they regarded as "free," tries to package their IDML file, and they can't collect the fonts?

                             

                            We have some print vendors who insist on flattened PDF/X-1a files, while our standard is X-4. Not everyone has jumped on the bandwagon of the latest and (perhaps not) greatest.

                             

                            Also, we're already having enough issues with differing versions of fonts, without adding an additional library to the mix. We've licensed several libraries, Adobe's among them. Now what happens when we create our files with our (otherwise current) OT versions, and hand those files off to a vendor, who opens them in their new CC version, and activates the TK versions, because that's the prompt that comes up first?

                            • 13. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                              Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

                              David,

                               

                              If you package an InDesign document including the fonts and the document is subsequently opened within that package, InDesign will use the fonts in the package if available, then fonts installed on the system, and only then would prompt with the “missing fonts” dialog including TypeKit support. In other words, TypeKit is the last resort.

                               

                                        - Dov

                              • 14. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                                Layne Huber Level 1

                                What happens if at some point you cease paying for TypeKit? In the case of a website, the font will cease taking effect. In the case of a finished print design however, you can't really recall the work.  Does the work therefore cease to be legal? Say if in ten years, I stop paying for TypeKit, and I had used a font for the TypeKit in a business' business cards. Are those business cards now illegally using the font?

                                 

                                Any clarification on this point would be helpful.

                                 

                                - Layne

                                • 15. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                                  Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

                                  No, existing content in “final form format” such as PDF with fonts embedded are not “illegal” in any way. Continue to use as you would any such content. You can even place such content into other new content. What you no longer have is the font for creation of new content or editing of older content in layout or design applications (or for that matter, any office software).

                                   

                                            - Dov

                                  • 16. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                                    Believers Bookshelf Level 1

                                    Hi Dov,

                                    You make this sound so easy. I have a designer who has different fonts than I. He packaged the file for me and created a PDF. The PDF goes to the printer. No problems yet. now my designer is away for 2 months o a missions trip and I need to make a change to the file for an update (found a mistake that needs to be fixed before reprinting). I open the package and get a missing font error.

                                    Shouldn't the font be in the package for this document? I do not want to use it on any other, just to fix this one. I now have to wait till my designer returns.

                                    I'm going to require all who work for me have and use the fonts I own. the minion font will be replace by actual objects and not font items so I can have access to them.

                                    There must be a better way!

                                    I'm using CS6 an PC 8.5 while my designers use macs. 

                                    • 17. Re: Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                                      Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

                                      Hi Mr/Ms Bookshelf,

                                       

                                      My best guess is that your “designer” is using Macintosh-format Type 1 and/or TrueType fonts which are unfortunately, not cross-platform compatible. Looking in the Document Fonts sub-directory of the packaged document, you will probably see some zero-length files. Those would be those Macintosh-only format fonts. (Technically, the issue is that these fonts put all their data in the Macintosh file system's “resource fork” which is invisible to Windows file systems which only has the equivalent of the MacOS “data fork.”)

                                       

                                      The full workaround for this issue is to standardize of OpenType fonts which are fully cross-platform compatible and on MacOS reside totally in the font file's “data fork.” In that way, you can fully work on documents prepared by your designer and when returned to the designer will still be compatible with the designer's system.

                                       

                                      Note in the interest of full disclosure: The document package feature of InDesign as well as Illustrator still requires that the receiver of the package being fully licensed for the fonts in the package! The package is a convenience and absolutely not a legal license extension for the fonts in the package!

                                       

                                      Hopefully this helps you understand what is going on in your particular situation. If not, please provide a few more details.

                                       

                                                - Dov

                                      • 18. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                                        Believers Bookshelf Level 1

                                        Thank Dov,

                                        This has been a most annoying issue, but you have made it clear as to

                                        why. So I know it's not just my system or me doing some thing wrong.

                                        I will try to get my designers to use Open Type that we all have the

                                        licenses for.

                                        Thanks for your help and patience.

                                        Larry Rosen

                                        Manager for Believers Bookshelf USA.

                                        • 19. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                                          luis_escorial Level 1

                                          Without trying to digress much from the original question, I would love to point out two issues everybody seems to keep avoiding:

                                          1. Typekit and Adobe option to use fonts for your projects with the price included in your CC subscription, is one of the best things that happened to the designer's world. I've been working in design for almost 20 years, and for many of them I had to limit my design to three or four classic fonts that I had purchased.

                                           

                                          2. The complains here seem to come from the fact that people don't understand that you should purchase (license) the fonts you use for your design. Type designers expend months and months creating these fonts, and should not give them for free. True to be told, on the other side, fonts are so expensive that it makes it almost impossible for a freelancer, and even a mid company to justify the purchase of more than 5 fonts (plus the whole single license per computer). Maybe Typography Houses should understand why there are so many piracy regarding fonts, and should come up with a system that benefits everybody.

                                           

                                          3. In any case, sending your files to the printer with the fonts, is giving them away for free (pirate). The printer should have a pretty large collection as part of their service. That's their profession. If not, sending PDF is the right way to go.

                                          • 20. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                                            Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

                                            Luis Sanz wrote:

                                             

                                            …3. In any case, sending your files to the printer with the fonts, is giving them away for free (pirate). The printer should have a pretty large collection as part of their service. That's their profession. If not, sending PDF is the right way to go.

                                             

                                            Agreed! What is important to point out is that a “printer” really should not be mucking around with your source documents and assets (InDesign, Illustrator, Photoshop documents plus font, image, color profile, etc. assets). The designer should be creating print-ready PDF files, preferably complying with the PDF/X-4 standard (full color management and live transparency, embedded fonts) and sending those PDF files to the printer. Some “printers” like the ability to “fix things” and thus ask for all those assets. In my experience, more often, what they think are fixes actually break or ruin things. If the printer really thinks, based on preflighting the PDF file that there is a likely problem, it should be fixed in the source documents by the designer and a new PDF file created and submitted.

                                             

                                                        - Dov

                                            2 people found this helpful
                                            • 21. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                                              pattyfabian Level 1

                                              Well I beg to differ with you. I will never use Typekit fonts again. I have just spent the last hour and a half trying to figure out why I can not package the fonts in my Indesign file. I very busy at work and dont have the time to be dicking around because of constant upgrades that change everything. I thought I would try Typekit, but forget it. I have always used Suitcase and I advise everyone to can Typekit and use Suitcase. I work for a very large international company, with hundreds of different suppliers and internal users who do not all have the latest version of Indesign. Not everyone is on the blood sucking CC. Yes don't deny it. I have been using Indesign for 30 years. I used to be able to own my product and upgrade every 3 years. All worked fine and I wasn't spending $50 a month on my software. So not everyone has Typekit. Duh.

                                              1 person found this helpful
                                              • 22. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                                                scottperezfox Level 1

                                                InDesign only came out in 2003. But I understand what you're trying to say.

                                                • 23. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                                                  jaldrichrlba Level 1


                                                  There's always converting fonts to outlines, if it's not body text and you're reasonably sure you won't change it again...

                                                  • 24. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                                                    saintmatthew Level 1

                                                    Actually, it was released in '99. I was using it in 2000. It was actually the perfect mix of Pagemaker and Quark.

                                                    • 25. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                                                      grda05301 Level 1

                                                      Is it acceptable to install desktop version of the font on a web server under the TypeKit license? We use TypeKit on the site, and we render pdfs on the site. The PDF renderer needs desktop versions for embed purposes to make the files look correct.

                                                      • 26. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                                                        mollybd Adobe Employee

                                                        Unfortunately Typekit is not able to provide font files for download. Embedding is not permitted in Typekit's terms of service.

                                                        • 27. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                                                          Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

                                                          Au contraire!!!!

                                                           

                                                          Typekit's license certainly does permit embedding of Typekit fonts in PDF files. It is packaging such fonts by InDesign or Illustrator that is not permitted!

                                                           

                                                          For example, if I have an InDesign or Illustrator document that uses a Typekit font, exporting (InDesign) or saving (Illustrator) to PDF will indeed embed those fonts (usually subsetted to the glyphs actually used) into the resultant PDF file. Such embedded fonts are not “full” fonts that can be extracted and otherwise used, but what is embedded is all that is necessary for PDF renderers (screen and print) to properly render the text with the desired typeface!!!

                                                           

                                                                    - Dov

                                                          • 28. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                                                            mollybd Adobe Employee

                                                            Hi Dov,

                                                             

                                                            I apologize, I should've clarified. The user posted: "We use TypeKit on the site, and we render pdfs on the site."

                                                             

                                                            In my mind this describes a web application that is creating new PDFs that do not come from desktop programs like InDesign or Illustrator. While embedding fonts in PDFs from these applications is allowed, we cannot provide fonts that allow unlicensed parties to create documents.

                                                             

                                                            Best,

                                                            Molly

                                                            • 29. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                                                              rossm36368480 Level 1

                                                              I see I'm not the only one hating adobe right now, have just done a handover as I'm going away and the designer doesn't have the same setup so I'm screwed, your crap is too expensive for this kind of hassle

                                                              thanks for nothing

                                                              • 30. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                                                                quoz Level 1

                                                                https://forums.adobe.com/people/Dov+Isaacs  wrote

                                                                 

                                                                Plus, if you want to assure that you will always have access to the exact fonts that you use in a project, TypeKit might not be the right solution for you. Also understand that TypeKit's collection is only a small subset of the Adobe Type Library and a minuscule subset of fonts available from all foundries.

                                                                 

                                                                          - Dov

                                                                Dov, are you still available to answer a question regarding this comment?

                                                                 

                                                                It caught my eye because we are a Mac house being forced at gunpoint to just beginning to research a switch to PCs due to corporate big brother mentality support requirements. Right now we use Suitcase Fusion's fantastic Font Sense technology to ensure we always use the correct version of Helvetica, etc. for our customer's files, and we have customers who would be upset over the slightest changes. Projects maybe in our system, and edited, for many years, and many use older Mac-based fonts.

                                                                 

                                                                Would you please explain your reference to not choosing TypeKit if using the exact fonts is crucial? Is it version management, or will the available library change over time, or is there another concern? We do understand that the open-type version of a font may differ from the original, and we will have issues when switching. (Whether corporate understands this is another question.) But once we've switched, we don't want to constantly be on the lookout for changes in the font library we use.

                                                                Thanks!

                                                                • 31. Re: Using Typekit fonts in print projects
                                                                  Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

                                                                  You actually bring up a few issues here.

                                                                   

                                                                  The first is Mac versus PC. You clearly have a preference / bias for Mac. It is very similar to one's preference for a Honda versus a Toyota. If that is what you like, fine. In terms of Adobe's Creative Suite/Cloud applications including Acrobat, Illustrator, InDesign, Photoshop, etc. in fact there is effectively no significant difference between those applications based on platform. I have used all of these on both MacOS and Windows and can attest to that.

                                                                   

                                                                  The only real issue (the other big issue) is that of cross-platform font compatibility (remember that “font” is a four letter word beginning with an ‘f’…

                                                                   

                                                                  If you have old MacOS format Type 1 or TrueType fonts, you cannot use those under Windows since those formats on MacOS put the font data in the file's resource fork, something not available under Windows. Some vendors, such as Adobe, issued Type 1 fonts in both MacOS and Windows formats and if you switched to the Windows version of the same font when running under Windows, at least with Adobe applications, there were no problems. In terms of MacOS TrueType fonts, you would need to consult with the original vendor from which you licensed the fonts.

                                                                   

                                                                  (It should be noted that Apple no longer supplies the vast majority of its system and bundled TrueType fonts in MacOS format but rather in the Windows format which MacOS can readily deal with!)

                                                                   

                                                                  If you are using any of the MacOS .dfont fonts, there is no equivalent to them under Windows.

                                                                   

                                                                  In terms of fonts currently being licensed by reputable font vendors, virtually all such fonts are in either Windows TrueType, OpenType TrueType (OpenType with quadratic outlines), and/or OpenType CFF (Type 1 Bezier outlines) formats. Cross platform with these newer fonts is not really an issue.

                                                                   

                                                                  My comment with regards to TypeKit is based on the fact that their versions of particular fonts might not match exactly the versions of such fonts that might be licensed directly from the font vendors or that TypeKit may incorporate new, updated versions of fonts over time. Depending upon your operations and for that matter, how comfortable you feel with assets such as fonts not residing on your systems and available without a TypeKit subscription, you may not find TypeKit to be the best solution for you. Also note that TypeKit limits the number of typefaces that can by synced at one time with the standard license that comes with most versions of Adobe Creative Cloud. 100 typefaces may sound like a lot, but not really if you are a designer. (With the Adobe Myriad Pro, Minion Pro, Adobe Garamond Pro, and Adobe Caslon Pro families, you already hit the limit!) I am simply saying that TypeKit is not for everyone and even as an Adobe employee, I feel it is appropriate to point that out.

                                                                   

                                                                            - Dov