7 Replies Latest reply on Sep 10, 2013 2:38 PM by strypesinpost

    Is the Adobe Workflow for Video Lossy?

    PhotogCda Level 1

      I'm coming from Sony Vegas which was an all-in-one solution.  No round-tripping from application to application.

       

      The Adobe workflow is, obviously, very different.  The question is, is it a workflow that retains optimal quality.  If you are having to render out the video file multiple times, you're losing quality along the way, are you not? 

       

      What do you do to retain quality from start to finish? 

       

      Thanks.

        • 1. Re: Is the Adobe Workflow for Video Lossy?
          joe bloe premiere Level 5
          The question is, is it a workflow that retains optimal quality.

          Yes.

          If you are having to render out the video file multiple times, you're losing quality along the way, are you not?

          Not sure what you mean by "render out the video file multiple times".

          If you are referring to Timeline Preview rendering,

          that does not affect your exported file... unless you choose

          to 'Use Previews' in your encoding settings.

           

          You can choose a 'lossy' or 'lossless' format for export (depending

          on your delivery requirements), but your original media is not

          transcoded during editing, and no generational loss is incurred.

          • 2. Re: Is the Adobe Workflow for Video Lossy?
            PhotogCda Level 1

            When I say render out, what I'm talking about is the need to render a file to go from, for example, PPro to Speedgrade.  You can't work on a project in PPro and then open that same project in Speedgrade.  You have to render the file in some format to do that.  If I have to render out to another format that is, typically, a lossy process unless you can use an intermediate form that is lossless.  I'm asking based on some of the tutorials I've been watching and there is no mention in any of them of lossy or lossless formats.  If the intermediate formats to move from, again, PPro to Speedgrade are lossless, that's fine.  If the DPX format is lossless, great.  You can also export an EDL to use in Speedgrade.  Then you have to find the original media clips and bring those into Speedgrade to link up with the EDL file.  But when you're finished in Speedgrade, you export as a video file then bring that video file back into PPro.  If that video file can be created using a lossless codec, great.  If not, then it's a lossy process.

             

            This is one of the tutorials, http://tv.adobe.com/watch/learn-premiere-pro-cc/color-grading-premiere-pro-sequences-in-sp eedgrade/

            • 3. Re: Is the Adobe Workflow for Video Lossy?
              joe bloe premiere Level 5

              I don't use Speedgrade.

               

              These are recommended codecs for DI use in Premiere:

               

              Lagarith Lossless Video Codec (pc only)

              http://lags.leetcode.net/codec.html

               

              Ut Video Codec Suite (pc or mac / lossless)

              http://www.videohelp.com/tools/Ut-Video-Codec-Suite

               

              Avid Codecs 2.3.7 - DNxHD (pc or mac) / 'virtually lossless'

              http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/download/en423319

               

              All you need to know about encoding DNxHD by Fuzzy Barsik:

              http://forums.adobe.com/message/5331048#5331048

               

              Alternatively, you can use uncompressed image sequences

              as a lossless Digital Intermediate file.

              • 4. Re: Is the Adobe Workflow for Video Lossy?
                Jim_Simon Level 8

                You can't work on a project in PPro and then open that same project in Speedgrade.

                 

                You can starting October 15th.

                 

                http://tv.adobe.com/watch/adobe-at-ibc-2013/adobe-premiere-pro-cc-speedgrade-cc-direct-lin k

                 

                Until then, the typical SG workflow is to use an EDL, which works with the original media in SG, but is limited as to which formats that method works with.  Or you can export out a DPX sequence and send that to SG, which is a worldwide standard for Intermediates in film production.

                 

                Personally, I'd delay until October if you can get away with it.

                • 5. Re: Is the Adobe Workflow for Video Lossy?
                  strypesinpost Level 2

                  Hi PhotogCda, there are many ways of working in the Adobe ecosystem, some workflows such as dynamic linking to After Effects do not require you to render to an intermediate format, while some such as the Speedgrade workflow, currently requires you render to DPX. You generally do not have to worry because Adobe natively supports some excellent formats.

                   

                  DPX is actually used in many of your favorite Hollywood films as a "digital intermediate". What this means is that when they shoot on film, they will scan the film onto DPX and grade off that DPX and send the graded renders (DPX) to the visual effects department. This workflow goes through a few generations, but it preserves very high visual quality as DPX is a lossless 10 bit RGB format. And to a large degree in our digital age, DPX is still very commonly used as an intermediate format for high end film workflows. The only thing is that you need a large and fast drive to keep up with DPX.

                   

                  DNxHD is a perceptually lossless format, which means that it is lossy, but in most cases, you cannot tell even if you placed both pictures side by side.

                   

                  On the Mac end, there is ProRes which is kind of similar to DNxHD and is also very commonly used in the TV industry. DNxHD originated from Avid, while ProRes originated from Apple and was very commonly used in the Final Cut Studio applications.

                  • 6. Re: Is the Adobe Workflow for Video Lossy?
                    PhotogCda Level 1

                    I'm familiar with DNxHD and ProRes.  Not so much with DPX.  I do know that it takes a whack of hard drive space due to the way it works. 

                    • 7. Re: Is the Adobe Workflow for Video Lossy?
                      strypesinpost Level 2

                      Yes it does unfortunately, and it requires fast drives for playback. That's the trade off for the uncompressed workflow. And that's one of the things that I have often mentioned. That folks who shoot 5D don't necessarily want to transcode to DPX due to the storage requirements. Because of this, I feel that Direct Link with SpeedGrade will finally open up SG for many users. Admittedly, so far, I've mainly been using SG as a LUT generator for Premiere.