35 Replies Latest reply on Sep 28, 2013 11:12 AM by av8ercfi

    Video stutters in preview

    av8ercfi

      I am using PPRO CS6.5. All is working well except the previews. When I watch the edit on the preview window it stutters, like it backs up a frame then skips a frame and continues. It is random and seems to stutter more on faster moving subjects mostly. It is noticeable on the preview window but I also have a larger external preview monitor (HDTV) connected throught a Black Magic Intensity Shuttle USB3 box. It is VERY bad on the external monitor.

       

      My system is Intel based, Intel Z77 MOBO, Intel i7 3770 chip, 16 Gigs RAM, AMD Radion HD7850 card with 2Gigs video memory, Renesas based USB3 card, and three monitors. I tried turning off two monitors but no help. My video is stored on a seperate 2TB SATA 3 hard drive.

       

      Any help would be appreciated.

       

      TIA,

      Joe

        • 1. Re: Video stutters in preview
          Andrew_S Level 3

          What's the media you are using? DV, HDV, AVCHD, DSLR etc. Is everything rendered? I.E. No red bars at the top of the sequence? Are you using any complex filters on the video?

          • 2. Re: Video stutters in preview
            av8ercfi Level 1

            Hi, Andrew,

             

            The video is HDV. It is imported from the camera as AVI 720 x 480. It is either in the time line or on the source window. There are no effects or filters, just the original footage. All is rendered. Even titles that are rendered stutter. I see the stuttering while viewing in the source window and in the preview window. It is random and unpredictable but it is in any clip. Seems to show up in faster moving subjects more often.

            • 3. Re: Video stutters in preview
              Jim_Simon Level 8

              That's not HDV, it's just DV.

               

              I wonder if you may be looking at a field order issue here.  Check that.

              • 4. Re: Video stutters in preview
                av8ercfi Level 1

                Thanks for the clarification. I will look into the field order issue.

                 

                Joe

                • 5. Re: Video stutters in preview
                  av8ercfi Level 1

                  BTW where do I look to set the field order? I used to know this but can't find it now.

                  • 6. Re: Video stutters in preview
                    av8ercfi Level 1

                    I found one place to set the field order. On each clip I went to INTERPRET FOOTAGE and tried setting the field order to conform to upper field, then lower field then no fields. None of these helped. Conform to upper field caused the entire project to need rendering. I now am back to USE FIELD ORDER FROM FILE and it is set to Lower Field First.

                     

                    Joe

                    • 7. Re: Video stutters in preview
                      Andrew_S Level 3

                      For clarification HDV is 1440 x 1080 Upper field first and on windows systems is stored as a MPEG file.

                      DV is 720 x 480 (NTSC) Lower field first and is stored as AVI on windows systems.

                       

                      Was the video captured from a tape played off a camcorder or was the AVI file imported from somewhere else?

                       

                      If the stuttering is caused by dropping frames, then this should be indicated by the green light turning yellow. This is located just under the Program window. It needs to be turned on with the wrench symbol (or spanner as its called in Britain.) Ensure that there is a tick next to "Show Dropped Frame Indicator". If this is cause, then you have a serious computer issue as DV is a very simple video format.

                      • 8. Re: Video stutters in preview
                        av8ercfi Level 1

                        Looks like that is the problem. Thanks for the info. The green light goes yellow when the video stutters. Guess I now have to figure out what is up with the hardware. As I stated above, SATA 3 hard drive, lots of memory, fast processor and such.

                         

                        Joe

                        • 9. Re: Video stutters in preview
                          av8ercfi Level 1

                          Andrew,

                           

                          If I may pick your Brain one more time, what do you think the problem might be? Hard disc gone bad? Memory gone bad? This system is less than six months old. I appreciate your help.

                           

                          Joe

                          • 10. Re: Video stutters in preview
                            Andrew_S Level 3

                            Joe, I was not thinking straight when I typed post 7. (It was time to go home ). I said that the dropped frame indicator shows a serious computer issue. That's not necessarily the case. If you move the mouse pointer to point at the green / yellow indicator it will show you how many frames have been dropped. Move the pointer away, wait a few seconds and point at it again and it will show you the dropped frame again, If it remains at say 1 or 2, then its just a bit of start up latency. But if the number keeps increasing then its a different matter. I get dropped frames from time to time but typically when I use two picture in picture images (HDV) with a still image background. In my case its not a poor HDD (Gbps internal SATA HDD) just the amount of processing that's going on.

                            (HP Z400 computer, 6 core Intel Zeon 6 GB RAM, Quadro 4000 video card.)

                             

                            I assume that you are using a DV sequence and not something else selected by accident? Check the settings from the Sequence menu.

                             

                            If you change the resolution of the monitor windows to say half ( from the pull down menu next to the wrench) does that improve things? If so then a Nvidia graphic card could improve things. One if CUDA processing and more than 1GB of video RAM. Changing the resolution will affect the TV output via the Blackmagic box.

                             

                            If it really is HDD performance - from your description it looks like you have the video on another HDD. In othehr words, you have the boot drive C: , DVD D:, and your video drive as E: (or similar lettering). Try copying a very large file from E: to C: and see what windows tells you what the transfer rate is. Ive just copied 12 GB of data in a folder and that transferred at 60 Mbytes = 480 Mbit per second. (Wait until its about 1/3 to 1/2 the way through the process to allow time for the reading to stabilise.)

                             

                            Something else to try. Edit > Preferences> Media and click clean Media Cache Database.

                             

                             

                            Lastly I'm a TV engineer and not an IT engineer, so I don't know everything about computers.

                            • 11. Re: Video stutters in preview
                              cscooper2013 Level 2

                              Last month I was experiencing very glitchy behavior of the CTI in the timeline.  http://forums.adobe.com/message/5592191#5592191 Jon Spear pointed out the solution (or the source of the problem, anyway—the actual solution would be for Adobe to fix the problem).


                              It sounds like your issue is slightly different so, while it's a long shot, try closing any Reference Monitor window you might have open.  Does that do anything for you?  Like I said, it's a long shot...

                               

                              PS. For what it's worth, I've seen the type of playback you're describing, but it's been a few years... probably back when I was using HDV. 

                              • 12. Re: Video stutters in preview
                                av8ercfi Level 1

                                Thanks to Andrew and cscooper.

                                 

                                I am now suspecting a hardware issue. I tried to capture an audio clip in Audition yesterday. The meters looked good but the playback was awful. I had a seperate audio card because the on board Intel audio didn't work most of the time. I am replacing the MOBO with an Asus MOBO.

                                 

                                cscooper - I don't have any reference monitors open. Just the preview and source.

                                 

                                Andrew - I am going to try your ideas. Since I removed the audio card maybe that was causing the problem. Anyway I'll let you all know what I find. May take a few days as the new MOBO will be here tomorrow.

                                 

                                Best regards,

                                 

                                Joe

                                • 13. Re: Video stutters in preview
                                  av8ercfi Level 1

                                  Andrew,

                                   

                                  Well I tried your suggestions.

                                   

                                  1. I checked the dropped frames. On the first try I got a LOT of dropped frames when I played back from the beginning. After about 20 seconds I stopped it and started it again. This time no dropped frames for the rest of the video, about 14 minutes so far. I tried it again an kept getting dropped frames even when I started, stopped and started again. This time I had 3586 dropped frames after two minutes of playback. But the playback looked good on the monitors.

                                   

                                  2. Yes the footage and the sequence is DV.

                                   

                                  3. Changing the resolution did nothing. I could not even see a difference.

                                   

                                  4. Cleaned the media cache database, no help.

                                   

                                  5. Did the copy test with a 15 GB video folder. Video drive (E) and boot (C) drive are both SATA 3 drives. Got 155 MB/sec transfer rates. That looks pretty good to me.

                                   

                                  With these things in mind I am thinking either something in the MOBO or, as you suggested, I may need a better video card. Mine is an AMD Radeon HD7850 with 2G RAM. What video card are you using? If I have to replace the video card I am thinking about a GeForce card with 2-3 gigs of DDR5 memory and a 384 bit bus. If that doesn't work then there is something wrong with Premiere.

                                   

                                  I will see what it looks like when the new MOBO gets installed this weekend.

                                  Thanks for all your help.

                                   

                                  Joe

                                  • 14. Re: Video stutters in preview
                                    cscooper2013 Level 2

                                    One more thought.  Do you see a difference when using software MPE vs. GPU MPE?

                                    • 15. Re: Video stutters in preview
                                      av8ercfi Level 1

                                      MPE? Don't know that one.

                                       

                                      Joe

                                      • 16. Re: Video stutters in preview
                                        cscooper2013 Level 2

                                        Sorry, MPE = Mercury Playback Engine.  It can be set to software or hardware (GPU).  Sometimes things work/don't work under one setting, but start to work under the other setting.

                                        • 17. Re: Video stutters in preview
                                          Andrew_S Level 3

                                          His graphics card does not support GPU acceleration. MPE means that all image processing is done through the CPU. With GPU acceleration, Premiere pushes image processing onto the graphics card, so drastically lightening the CPU loading. Joe, see post 10 for my computer specs. You switch on GPU (CUDA) in the projects settings ( if its available, IE the graphics card needs to be listed in the cuda_supported_cards.txt file.)

                                          • 18. Re: Video stutters in preview
                                            cscooper2013 Level 2

                                            "...a lot of people think that Mercury just refers to CUDA/OpenCL processing. This is wrong. To see that this was not the original intent, you need look no further than the project settings UI strings Mercury Playback Engine GPU Acceleration and Mercury Playback Engine Software Only, which would make no sense if Mercury meant “hardware” (i.e., CUDA/OpenCL)."  — Adobe

                                             

                                            You can come to a better understanding of the MPE better by reading the full text:

                                            http://blogs.adobe.com/premierepro/2011/02/cuda-mercury-playback-engine-and-adobe-premiere -pro.html

                                             

                                            That said, you are correct:  AMD cards are not supported for GPU acceleration in CS6.  Sorry, av8r, I overlooked your specs, when mentioning #14 above.

                                            • 19. Re: Video stutters in preview
                                              av8ercfi Level 1

                                              Okay. Got that MPE thing. It is set to software and not changeable. I am going to read the link cscooper gave. looks like the AMD video card isn't cutting it. I am gonna look at nVidia based cards. Probably a 660 series with 3 gigs of GDDR5 ram and 192 bit bus. The first thing I am gonna do is replace this crappy Intel MOBO. The new Asus board is on the bench so that is my project for tomorrow.

                                               

                                              Any suggestions for which video card to look at? I am running three monitors so I am gonna need at least two mini DVI, and one DVI port.

                                               

                                              Thanks for the replies. I'll let you know my results.

                                               

                                              Joe

                                              • 21. Re: Video stutters in preview
                                                Andrew_S Level 3

                                                Everyone has their favourite graphics cards. If I have read your specs right, you have 3 monitors attached to your present graphics card, displaying premiere's screens and a TV monitor via a BM box to show the video? You might have to hunt around a bit to get that spec at a reasonable price.

                                                • 22. Re: Video stutters in preview
                                                  av8ercfi Level 1

                                                  Yeah. I am looking at a few. There are a bunch to look at and even more if I go down to 2 gigs VRAM. The output to the BM box is USB3 so I don't need an output from the video card for that.

                                                   

                                                  There being so many to look at I was asking to find out what others are using that work properly.

                                                   

                                                  Thanks again,

                                                   

                                                  Joe

                                                  • 23. Re: Video stutters in preview
                                                    av8ercfi Level 1

                                                    Good article. Very helpful. Thanks.

                                                     

                                                    Joe

                                                    • 24. Re: Video stutters in preview
                                                      av8ercfi Level 1

                                                      Quick update. I replaced the MOBO. While it solved many other issues, the PRPRO issue is still there. So now I am looking at a new video card. My current choice is the Asus GTX660 Ti. Anyone have any experience with this one?

                                                       

                                                      TIA

                                                       

                                                      Joe

                                                      • 25. Re: Video stutters in preview
                                                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                        I'm using the 560 Ti without issue.

                                                        • 26. Re: Video stutters in preview
                                                          av8ercfi Level 1

                                                          Thanks, Jim.

                                                           

                                                          Joe

                                                          • 27. Re: Video stutters in preview
                                                            av8ercfi Level 1

                                                            Just want to clrify something, that dropped frames are caused by a video card problem. I know that slow disc drives can cause this too but I am getting about 155 GB/s transfer rates as indicatted by Windows. Good fast SATA 3 drive, lots of RAM and a 3770 processor. Should be fast enough.

                                                             

                                                            I don't want to spend a lot of money if replacing the video card won't cut it. If that is what it takes to fix this stuttering and dropped frames problem then I will pull the trigger and get an nVidia based card to replace my Radeon card.

                                                             

                                                            TIA

                                                             

                                                            Joe

                                                            • 28. Re: Video stutters in preview
                                                              Richard M Knight Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                              I have a 660ti running 4 monitors and a BM card running a Plasma and all (touch wood) is fine.

                                                              • 29. Re: Video stutters in preview
                                                                cscooper2013 Level 2

                                                                av8r, do you have any strange video programs or codecs (i.e. the infamous Windows codec pack) installed on this machine?  Anything strange services or .dll's running?  Check with Task Manager.  Run CCleaner?  Also, I believe the 3770 has integrated graphics.  Make sure that HD 4000 driver is up-to-date and/or can you turn that off completely?

                                                                • 30. Re: Video stutters in preview
                                                                  av8ercfi Level 1

                                                                  Thanks, Richard. That's the one I am looking at. Glad someone else is having good luck with it.

                                                                   

                                                                  cscoper, I will look into your suggestion when I get back to the studio. I can tell you that I have the MOBO graphics turned off. Only using the Radeon card  for now.

                                                                   

                                                                  Joe

                                                                  • 31. Re: Video stutters in preview
                                                                    av8ercfi Level 1

                                                                    Tried all that has been suggested and still stuttering. So I popped the cork and poured out an orderr for a 660Ti Asus video board. I'll fill you all in when it gets installed. If that don't do it the next dtep is a RAID.

                                                                     

                                                                    Joe

                                                                    • 32. Re: Video stutters in preview
                                                                      av8ercfi Level 1

                                                                      Update: I installed the Asus 660Ti graphics card. So far all looks okay. I ran a segment and didn't see any skips.  I only have two monitors right now. I need a display port to DVI adapter to hook up the third one. I ordered an active adapter and it is on the way. The video through the Black Majic box is looking good too, so far.

                                                                       

                                                                      One thing I did notice is I can't set the MPE. It is set to memory and grayed out. Is there something I need to do to get it to use the GPU?

                                                                       

                                                                      Thanks again for all the help. I owe you all a drink.

                                                                       

                                                                      Joe

                                                                      • 33. Re: Video stutters in preview
                                                                        av8ercfi Level 1

                                                                        Richard,

                                                                         

                                                                        What, if anything, did you do to get PPRO to recognize your CUDA card? I installed the 660Yi and while I am getting better playback, I can't set the program to recognize the CUDA cores. I hope I am not gonna have to reinstall CS6.

                                                                         

                                                                        Joe

                                                                        • 35. Re: Video stutters in preview
                                                                          av8ercfi Level 1

                                                                          That did it. I deleted the CUDA supported cards file and ran PPRO. Worked fine. PPRO didn't create a new file and I am able to set PPRO to use CUDA.

                                                                           

                                                                          Thanks.

                                                                           

                                                                          Joe