1 2 3 2 Previous Next 73 Replies Latest reply on Feb 15, 2018 1:36 PM by 19KStudio Go to original post
      • 44. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
        jbm007 Adobe Community Professional

        Here is a dirty little secret.

         

        Windows 8, Win 8.1, and Windows 10 do not and all MAC OSes do not; I repeat do not support 30 bit output.

         

        Windows 7 is the only OS that did and Aero needed to be disabled to do so. I believe Linux also supports 30 bit color output.

         

        All the marketing hype from the Video card mfg and TV mfg is great; the problem is there is no way to get 30 bit output with the current OS es.

         

        Sorry to burst everybody's bubble.

         

        Sad but true.  You still using windows 7 you are still in luck.

         

        Jim

        • 45. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
          Todd Shaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          how did you confirm Windows 8 and 10 do not support 30 bit color? Try using the below NEC 10 bit demo app or download the free Zoner Photo Studio trial.

           

          30 bit color mode works on my Windows 7 64 bit system with PS CS6, but only at 64%-100% view. It doesn't work at all with PS CC2015 so even with Windows 7 there are still issues! It works with no issues using Zoner Photo Studio and the NEC 10 bit color demo app, which confirms my system configuration fully supports 30 bit color. 

           

          Zoner Photo Studio 17 free trial

           

          http://www.necdisplay.com/documents/Software/NEC_10_bit_video_Windows_demo.zip

           

          Adobe still has this posted:

           

          Photoshop GPU troubleshooting FAQ

          Photoshop CC, Photoshop CC 2014, and Photoshop CC 2015

          Note: 30-bit display is not functioning correctly with current drivers. We are working to address this issue as soon as possible

          • 46. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
            jbm007 Adobe Community Professional

            Don't care what they indicate; Windows 8, 8.1, 10 OS only support 8 bit output.

             

            There is no OpenGL path to 30 bits on windows 8 or 8.1 or 10.  And currently PS uses OpenGL on both windows, and mac.

             

            The only way to get deep color past the compositing is with a full screen directX surface which is not used by professional applications.

            • 47. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
              Todd Shaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              So MS Windows 8 & 10 is following in the footsteps of Apple OS X? It doesn't surprise me! What's funny (or sad) is that this is very analogous to what happened to audio technology (aka music). We went from analog LP records, 16 bit CDs, 24 bit SA-DVD, and now lossy MP3 is the most used format. It wouldn't surprise me if photography follows the same path with camera manufacturers dropping raw file format support in the next 10-20 years.

              • 48. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                Marco Ristuccia Level 1

                Don't know what happens with Windows 8.X, but I don't like this OS so will never install it in any case.

                I'll stick with my Win7 64bit XP1 and PS CC 2015 set with the "Microsoft ICM" color engine. This way I can work with 30 bit color, especially for B&W photography. Grayscale images have far less color shades than the color ones.

                 

                Moreover, I also run a Mac OS X 10.10 Yosemite on the same PC and there is no way to get 30 bit per color.

                • 49. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                  Marco Ristuccia Level 1

                  Hi all,

                   

                  I just discovered another method that lets me work with 30 bits and the Adobe ACE engine on PS CC 2015.

                  By enabling "proof colors" (menu "View") and choosing a printer proofing profile the gradient step becomes smooth. This seems to happen only with printer profiles, I tried other profiles like "Adobe RGB" and "Wide Gamut" but it doesn't work. Moreover, the limit of 63% zoom factor (in my PC is 63.8% to be precise) is present with this setup, under this value the steps turn visible.

                   

                  Anyway this seems a good compromise approach to me, and avoids the color accuracy drawbacks of using the "Microsoft ICM" engine. We could either work with "proof colors" always activated or proof our prints on 30 bits just before printing or bringing the image files to a LAB.

                   

                  Win7 XP x64 SP1, nVidia Quadro K2000, PS CC 2015, Epson R2880 printer profiles.

                   

                  Regards.

                  • 50. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                    Todd Shaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    Marco Ristuccia wrote:

                    Anyway this seems a good compromise approach to me, and avoids the color accuracy drawbacks of using the "Microsoft ICM" engine. We could either work with "proof colors" always activated or proof our prints on 30 bits just before printing or bringing the image files to a LAB.

                    That brings up a good point. Unless the target printer supports 16 bit/color and the printer driver is properly setup to use 16 bit/color data then 30 bit mode should NOT be used to proof the image.

                     

                    What's interesting is that Mac OS X has supported 16 bit/color printer path for years, but still no 30 bit/color display support. So you need to proof the image on a Windows system with 30 bit mode support. From what I can tell Epson does not offer Windows printer drivers with 16 data support (XPS), only Canon does. If using a Windows system you can proof in 30 bit mode on the display, but can't print 16 bit data to an Epson printer.

                     

                    It all seems like an exercise in futility to me....at least at this point. I also have been unable to find any 16 bit color print examples where the user states it's "significantly" better than the 8 bit print.

                     

                    Oleg Novikov Photography » Epson Stylus Pro 4880 printer user experience report

                     

                    Hype or Hero Take 2: 16 Bit Printers - Steve's Digicams

                     

                    16 bit print output may help to preventing banding in B&W prints, but not color prints:

                     

                    16bit vs 8bit printing on 9900

                     

                    If you do a lot of fine-art B&W printing it may be worth the effort to use a system that supports 16 bit printer data.....and 30 bit color.

                    • 51. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                      Marco Ristuccia Level 1

                      You are right trshaner.

                      I run a Mac OS X Yosemite on the same system (dual boot) so I can proof in Windows and print on Mac. I don't print so frequently so switching OS from time to time is not that problem for me. But I agree with you on the weirdness of the whole thing, and on the fact that probably it doesn't worth the effort.

                      Moreover, if we print through a LAB service we should have their printing profile and know whether their driver will print with 8 or 16 bits data output.

                      • 52. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                        StefanKlein Level 1

                        Is there any documentation about OpenGL and Windows 8 etc. and the lack of 10bit support? I couldn`t find anything in the web.

                        • 53. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                          Stephen van Vuuren Level 1

                          The ICE does not work for me on latest 2015, Win 7, K5000 cards. But does on last release of 2014

                          • 54. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                            malantheon

                            Microsoft ICE trick works for me on Photoshop CC 2015 under Windows 10 with NVIDIA Quadro K620 card.

                            However, I am 100 % sure that the CS 6 version of Photoshop worked better and I did not have to use ICE color setting.

                             

                            Also, Knife_Master is not right about Lightroom supporting 10-bit. Despite the fact it does dither grayscale pictures quite nicely, there is nothing 10-bit in its workflow. It's a niche thing and they can't get it right even for Photoshop. Unless 10-bit moves to consumer cards and medium priced displays, I don't think they'd bother for Lightroom. Also, you need a well-trained eye to see the difference between true 10-bit output and a well-performed dither, especially on today's high DPI screens.

                            • 55. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                              Todd Shaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              malantheon wrote:

                              Also, you need a well-trained eye to see the difference between true 10-bit output and a well-performed dither, especially on today's high DPI screens.

                              As mentioned in reply #43 I haven't found a single camera or scanner image file with normal adjustments that exhibits banding with an 8bit/color display path. This probably due to the fact that every camera and scanner image has some residual sensor noise in the image even after normal Sharpening & NR processing. As mentioned this is producing dithering that helps to hide banding.

                               

                              Does anyone have some example camera raw image files they are willing to share that actually exhibit banding with normal adjustments? I'm not talking about banding due to highlight clipping, just banding in normal unclipped image areas. I'd love to see some examples since I haven't found a single one to date. Thanks!

                              • 56. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                Yahor Shumski Level 1

                                It seems Adobe finally solved 10-bit related problems with the latest release of Photoshop (2015.1). Both for Mac and PC

                                • 57. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                  malantheon Level 1

                                  Yes, I can confirm that on my system (Win10, Quadro 620, NEC PA272W) 10-bit works in Photoshop, also with Adobe ACE conversion option selected. However, the support does not seem to be extended from the CS6 version - you still get banding when selecting or cropping the image and also in filter previews - but the latest seems quite forgivable for me.

                                   

                                  As for trshaner's challenge, I think it would be quite interesting to try, so for the next few days I guess I should be shooting for the skies;-)

                                  • 58. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                    jbm007 Adobe Community Professional

                                    Check image at 66% or less

                                    • 59. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                      Todd Shaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      The threshold where banding reappears for me is <64% view size. Please try 50% view size and confirm there is no banding with the Ramp test image file. Can you share a raw file that displays banding with 24 bit display....if you find one?

                                      • 60. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                        malantheon Level 1

                                        At 63% the image gets the strange banding as well as this interesting one-pixel border around it (only at 63%, below the border is not visible at all). Goes for Adobe ACM as well as Microsoft ICE.

                                        Unfortunately, graphics card on my Lenovo laptop with 24bit display just died last week - but that screen put the banding on almost anything :-)

                                         

                                        So, back to square one, Adobe did do a thing about 10bit support in its latest release...

                                        2015-12-09_16h35_04.png

                                        • 61. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                          Semaphoric Adobe Community Professional

                                          Unfortunately for me, AMD's 10-bit drivers still don't work with Windows 10 screen grabs, which I need a lot more than viewing artificial ramps, so I will stay with 8-bit.

                                           

                                          Nice to see there is some progress, though.

                                          • 62. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                            Jack191 Level 1

                                            I'm running El Capitan 10.11.2, and a trial version of PS CC for Mac (CC 20151114.r.301x64). When I open the test ramp in CC with "Use Graphics Processor" (and "30-Bit Display") selected, the ramp is smooth at 100%, and zoom levels down to 64%.  At 63%, banding appears, as does the one-pixel border around the image. If I close the ramp, and deselect "Use Graphics Processor", and then open the ramp in CC it shows banding at 100%, and at any of the zoom levels I tried (25% -200%) Further, I no longer saw a one pixel border at 63% and below, or any zoom level I looked at.

                                            • 63. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                              Jack191 Level 1

                                              Here are three screen captures from the tests described in my previous post showing the ramp at 100%, 64%, and 63% zoom levels. -

                                               

                                              For Apple Forum 100 per Screenshot 2015-12-16 14.05.39.png

                                              For Apple Forum 64 per Screenshot 2015-12-16 14.06.11.png

                                              For Apple Forum 63 per Screenshot 2015-12-16 14.06.26.png

                                              • 64. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                                helmutk41814071

                                                Hi there,

                                                 

                                                i purchased a EIZO CS 270 and WIN 10 64 bit, PS and LR CC.

                                                 

                                                I would like to work in a 10bit Workflow. What Graphiccard shoul i use? I could not find any new reviews about 10 bit/Channel.
                                                Does a Quadro K420 supprt 10bit/Channel?

                                                • 66. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                                  19KStudio Level 1

                                                  It's now February of 2018 and the 10bit issue with PS is still not resolved... when will Adobe wake up and fix the issue.. Capture One displays fine on my system..

                                                  • 67. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                                    D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                    19KStudio  wrote

                                                     

                                                    when will Adobe wake up and fix the issue

                                                     

                                                    It does work, I have 30 bit display with Photoshop CC 2018, Windows 10, NVidia Quadro K420 and Eizo CG/CX.

                                                     

                                                    However, you need to be at 66.67% zoom and up.

                                                    • 68. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                                      19KStudio Level 1

                                                      Not for me... I have 30 bit display with Photoshop CC 2018, Windows 10, Nvidia Quadro K4000 and BenQ 271W.  Does not work with PS, however displays correctly with Lightroom Classic and Capture One.  Magnification makes no difference on my setup.  PS chat support went as far as to say that PS did not support it. We all know that's incorrect.  Perhaps you need to do more than tick the 30bit box to make PS work?

                                                      • 69. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                                        jbm007 Adobe Community Professional

                                                        Try clearing your PS preferences.

                                                        • 70. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                                          D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                          Worked right out of the box here.

                                                           

                                                          As for Lightroom, I know for a fact that there is no 30 bit support in the application. However, I was told a while ago that Lightroom uses dithering on the 8-bit output data so you won't see any banding there. I haven't seen any documentation of how this works, though.

                                                           

                                                          A while ago there was a discussion on the Lightroom forum, after MacOS got 30 bit support. A lot of Mac users were convinced they had 30 bit display in Lightroom because they didn't see any banding. That's when the output dithering explanation came up.

                                                           

                                                          But the thing is - these applications are used to view photos. You never see any banding in photos anyway, for the simple reason that there's always enough residual noise to conceal it. That's effectively "dithering". If that's what's behind it, the same explanation goes for Capture One.

                                                           

                                                          Either way, Lightroom does not have 30 bit support at all.

                                                          • 71. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                                            Todd Shaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                            19KStudio  wrote

                                                            Does not work with PS, however displays correctly with Lightroom Classic and Capture One.  Magnification makes no difference on my setup.

                                                            Lightroom Library module uses 24 bit (8bit/color) previews in the Library module so 30 bit color display is of no benefit. The LR Develop module preview is "dithered" so no benefit with 30 bit display there either. LR will look the same on a 24 bit OR 30 bit display capable system.

                                                             

                                                            Lightroom: Add 10-bit/channel color display support | Photoshop Family Customer Community

                                                            • 72. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                                              19KStudio Level 1

                                                              I've tried clearing my preferences a few times in the past and did so again just now. (after the latest update I installed today)  No Help, still banding in the ramp.  I have spent hours with Nvidia who says the Quadro K4000 is working as designed.  I'm running a DisplayPort cable to the BenQ.  What's weird is that at one point after I installed the K4000, added the BenQ to my system and checked 30bit in PS, It WORKED.. then there was a windows update and a PS update.. now I have no 30 bit display in Photoshop. Completely baffled.....

                                                              • 73. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                                                19KStudio Level 1

                                                                I have my Problem FIXED.. after 3 weeks of going back and forth with BenQ, Adobe support, and Nvidia I have the answer and the solution.  Once again I have a Nvidia Quadro k4000, running on a Windows 10 machine using Photoshop CC 2018.  As I mentioned earlier I had 10 bit color at one point but lost it.  Apparently when I did driver update on the Nvidia card setting were changed that no one, except the guy I talked with today new about. 

                                                                 

                                                                In the Nvidia Control Panel > Display > Change Resolution > Use Nvidia color settings > Output color depth: >

                                                                Change the setting to 10 bpc.... defaults to 8

                                                                 

                                                                Other recommended setting in "manage 3D settings" are:

                                                                Global > Power management mode = Prefer Maximum Preformance

                                                                Program settings > add Photoshop if not already there

                                                                Power management mode = Prefer maximum preformance

                                                                Threaded optimization = Off

                                                                Triple buffering = Off

                                                                Vertical sync = Off

                                                                Virtual Reality pre-rendered frames = 3

                                                                 

                                                                I'm in business...

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