1 2 3 2 Previous Next 65 Replies Latest reply on Oct 9, 2016 2:24 PM by jbm007 Go to original post
      • 44. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
        jbm007 Adobe Community Professional

        Here is a dirty little secret.

         

        Windows 8, Win 8.1, and Windows 10 do not and all MAC OSes do not; I repeat do not support 30 bit output.

         

        Windows 7 is the only OS that did and Aero needed to be disabled to do so. I believe Linux also supports 30 bit color output.

         

        All the marketing hype from the Video card mfg and TV mfg is great; the problem is there is no way to get 30 bit output with the current OS es.

         

        Sorry to burst everybody's bubble.

         

        Sad but true.  You still using windows 7 you are still in luck.

         

        Jim

        • 45. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
          trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          how did you confirm Windows 8 and 10 do not support 30 bit color? Try using the below NEC 10 bit demo app or download the free Zoner Photo Studio trial.

           

          30 bit color mode works on my Windows 7 64 bit system with PS CS6, but only at 64%-100% view. It doesn't work at all with PS CC2015 so even with Windows 7 there are still issues! It works with no issues using Zoner Photo Studio and the NEC 10 bit color demo app, which confirms my system configuration fully supports 30 bit color. 

           

          Zoner Photo Studio 17 free trial

           

          http://www.necdisplay.com/documents/Software/NEC_10_bit_video_Windows_demo.zip

           

          Adobe still has this posted:

           

          Photoshop GPU troubleshooting FAQ

          Photoshop CC, Photoshop CC 2014, and Photoshop CC 2015

          Note: 30-bit display is not functioning correctly with current drivers. We are working to address this issue as soon as possible

          • 46. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
            jbm007 Adobe Community Professional

            Don't care what they indicate; Windows 8, 8.1, 10 OS only support 8 bit output.

             

            There is no OpenGL path to 30 bits on windows 8 or 8.1 or 10.  And currently PS uses OpenGL on both windows, and mac.

             

            The only way to get deep color past the compositing is with a full screen directX surface which is not used by professional applications.

            • 47. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
              trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              So MS Windows 8 & 10 is following in the footsteps of Apple OS X? It doesn't surprise me! What's funny (or sad) is that this is very analogous to what happened to audio technology (aka music). We went from analog LP records, 16 bit CDs, 24 bit SA-DVD, and now lossy MP3 is the most used format. It wouldn't surprise me if photography follows the same path with camera manufacturers dropping raw file format support in the next 10-20 years.

              • 48. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                Marco Ristuccia

                Don't know what happens with Windows 8.X, but I don't like this OS so will never install it in any case.

                I'll stick with my Win7 64bit XP1 and PS CC 2015 set with the "Microsoft ICM" color engine. This way I can work with 30 bit color, especially for B&W photography. Grayscale images have far less color shades than the color ones.

                 

                Moreover, I also run a Mac OS X 10.10 Yosemite on the same PC and there is no way to get 30 bit per color.

                • 49. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                  Marco Ristuccia Level 1

                  Hi all,

                   

                  I just discovered another method that lets me work with 30 bits and the Adobe ACE engine on PS CC 2015.

                  By enabling "proof colors" (menu "View") and choosing a printer proofing profile the gradient step becomes smooth. This seems to happen only with printer profiles, I tried other profiles like "Adobe RGB" and "Wide Gamut" but it doesn't work. Moreover, the limit of 63% zoom factor (in my PC is 63.8% to be precise) is present with this setup, under this value the steps turn visible.

                   

                  Anyway this seems a good compromise approach to me, and avoids the color accuracy drawbacks of using the "Microsoft ICM" engine. We could either work with "proof colors" always activated or proof our prints on 30 bits just before printing or bringing the image files to a LAB.

                   

                  Win7 XP x64 SP1, nVidia Quadro K2000, PS CC 2015, Epson R2880 printer profiles.

                   

                  Regards.

                  • 50. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                    trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    Marco Ristuccia wrote:

                    Anyway this seems a good compromise approach to me, and avoids the color accuracy drawbacks of using the "Microsoft ICM" engine. We could either work with "proof colors" always activated or proof our prints on 30 bits just before printing or bringing the image files to a LAB.

                    That brings up a good point. Unless the target printer supports 16 bit/color and the printer driver is properly setup to use 16 bit/color data then 30 bit mode should NOT be used to proof the image.

                     

                    What's interesting is that Mac OS X has supported 16 bit/color printer path for years, but still no 30 bit/color display support. So you need to proof the image on a Windows system with 30 bit mode support. From what I can tell Epson does not offer Windows printer drivers with 16 data support (XPS), only Canon does. If using a Windows system you can proof in 30 bit mode on the display, but can't print 16 bit data to an Epson printer.

                     

                    It all seems like an exercise in futility to me....at least at this point. I also have been unable to find any 16 bit color print examples where the user states it's "significantly" better than the 8 bit print.

                     

                    Oleg Novikov Photography » Epson Stylus Pro 4880 printer user experience report

                     

                    Hype or Hero Take 2: 16 Bit Printers - Steve's Digicams

                     

                    16 bit print output may help to preventing banding in B&W prints, but not color prints:

                     

                    16bit vs 8bit printing on 9900

                     

                    If you do a lot of fine-art B&W printing it may be worth the effort to use a system that supports 16 bit printer data.....and 30 bit color.

                    • 51. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                      Marco Ristuccia Level 1

                      You are right trshaner.

                      I run a Mac OS X Yosemite on the same system (dual boot) so I can proof in Windows and print on Mac. I don't print so frequently so switching OS from time to time is not that problem for me. But I agree with you on the weirdness of the whole thing, and on the fact that probably it doesn't worth the effort.

                      Moreover, if we print through a LAB service we should have their printing profile and know whether their driver will print with 8 or 16 bits data output.

                      • 52. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                        StefanKlein Level 1

                        Is there any documentation about OpenGL and Windows 8 etc. and the lack of 10bit support? I couldn`t find anything in the web.

                        • 53. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                          Stephen van Vuuren Level 1

                          The ICE does not work for me on latest 2015, Win 7, K5000 cards. But does on last release of 2014

                          • 54. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                            malantheon

                            Microsoft ICE trick works for me on Photoshop CC 2015 under Windows 10 with NVIDIA Quadro K620 card.

                            However, I am 100 % sure that the CS 6 version of Photoshop worked better and I did not have to use ICE color setting.

                             

                            Also, Knife_Master is not right about Lightroom supporting 10-bit. Despite the fact it does dither grayscale pictures quite nicely, there is nothing 10-bit in its workflow. It's a niche thing and they can't get it right even for Photoshop. Unless 10-bit moves to consumer cards and medium priced displays, I don't think they'd bother for Lightroom. Also, you need a well-trained eye to see the difference between true 10-bit output and a well-performed dither, especially on today's high DPI screens.

                            • 55. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                              trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              malantheon wrote:

                              Also, you need a well-trained eye to see the difference between true 10-bit output and a well-performed dither, especially on today's high DPI screens.

                              As mentioned in reply #43 I haven't found a single camera or scanner image file with normal adjustments that exhibits banding with an 8bit/color display path. This probably due to the fact that every camera and scanner image has some residual sensor noise in the image even after normal Sharpening & NR processing. As mentioned this is producing dithering that helps to hide banding.

                               

                              Does anyone have some example camera raw image files they are willing to share that actually exhibit banding with normal adjustments? I'm not talking about banding due to highlight clipping, just banding in normal unclipped image areas. I'd love to see some examples since I haven't found a single one to date. Thanks!

                              • 56. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                Yahor Shumski Level 1

                                It seems Adobe finally solved 10-bit related problems with the latest release of Photoshop (2015.1). Both for Mac and PC

                                • 57. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                  malantheon Level 1

                                  Yes, I can confirm that on my system (Win10, Quadro 620, NEC PA272W) 10-bit works in Photoshop, also with Adobe ACE conversion option selected. However, the support does not seem to be extended from the CS6 version - you still get banding when selecting or cropping the image and also in filter previews - but the latest seems quite forgivable for me.

                                   

                                  As for trshaner's challenge, I think it would be quite interesting to try, so for the next few days I guess I should be shooting for the skies;-)

                                  • 58. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                    jbm007 Adobe Community Professional

                                    Check image at 66% or less

                                    • 59. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                      trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      The threshold where banding reappears for me is <64% view size. Please try 50% view size and confirm there is no banding with the Ramp test image file. Can you share a raw file that displays banding with 24 bit display....if you find one?

                                      • 60. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                        malantheon Level 1

                                        At 63% the image gets the strange banding as well as this interesting one-pixel border around it (only at 63%, below the border is not visible at all). Goes for Adobe ACM as well as Microsoft ICE.

                                        Unfortunately, graphics card on my Lenovo laptop with 24bit display just died last week - but that screen put the banding on almost anything :-)

                                         

                                        So, back to square one, Adobe did do a thing about 10bit support in its latest release...

                                        2015-12-09_16h35_04.png

                                        • 61. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                          Semaphoric Adobe Community Professional

                                          Unfortunately for me, AMD's 10-bit drivers still don't work with Windows 10 screen grabs, which I need a lot more than viewing artificial ramps, so I will stay with 8-bit.

                                           

                                          Nice to see there is some progress, though.

                                          • 62. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                            Jack191 Level 1

                                            I'm running El Capitan 10.11.2, and a trial version of PS CC for Mac (CC 20151114.r.301x64). When I open the test ramp in CC with "Use Graphics Processor" (and "30-Bit Display") selected, the ramp is smooth at 100%, and zoom levels down to 64%.  At 63%, banding appears, as does the one-pixel border around the image. If I close the ramp, and deselect "Use Graphics Processor", and then open the ramp in CC it shows banding at 100%, and at any of the zoom levels I tried (25% -200%) Further, I no longer saw a one pixel border at 63% and below, or any zoom level I looked at.

                                            • 63. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                              Jack191 Level 1

                                              Here are three screen captures from the tests described in my previous post showing the ramp at 100%, 64%, and 63% zoom levels. -

                                               

                                              For Apple Forum 100 per Screenshot 2015-12-16 14.05.39.png

                                              For Apple Forum 64 per Screenshot 2015-12-16 14.06.11.png

                                              For Apple Forum 63 per Screenshot 2015-12-16 14.06.26.png

                                              • 64. Re: PS cc and 30 bit
                                                helmutk41814071

                                                Hi there,

                                                 

                                                i purchased a EIZO CS 270 and WIN 10 64 bit, PS and LR CC.

                                                 

                                                I would like to work in a 10bit Workflow. What Graphiccard shoul i use? I could not find any new reviews about 10 bit/Channel.
                                                Does a Quadro K420 supprt 10bit/Channel?

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