10 Replies Latest reply on Sep 18, 2013 9:41 AM by RJ73

    AVCHD / 60p / 1920 x 1080

    RJ73 Level 1

      Greetings,

       

      I am using a Canon R42 Camcorder.

       

      (1) What is the advantage to recording in AVCHD, 60p, 1920 x 1080 for Vimeo, YouTube, etc? Any advantage at all? Under what circumstances would you record at those settings? I am going to assume if the final intent is to burn to Blue Ray but am not sure.

       

      (2) When starting Premier Pro one can select either 'DV' or 'HDV'. I assume that latter is for 1920 x 1080 output?

       

      (3) I am using the Trial Version of Premier Pro and am confused as to what benifits are gained by this being tied into CC?

       

      As always, thank you very much.

       

      Ron

        • 1. Re: AVCHD / 60p / 1920 x 1080
          Steven L. Gotz Level 5

          1. The advantage of shooting 60p is that it is progressive so when you export for the web you don't get the interlacing problems that 30i (sometimes called 60i) will give you. Plus, you can interpret 60p footage and tell Premiere Pro it is 30fps or even 24fps and get really clean slow motion.

           

          2. The DV and HDV settings are only there for people capturing from tape. It does not apply ti file transfers from memory cards.

           

          3. A CC subscription has all of the other programs that I personally find handy. From After Effects and Photoshop, to Acrobat Pro, Illustrator and Dreamweaver (or even Muse). Plus, the subscription allows you to get everything fo around $50 per month instead of spending over $2000 in one big purchase.

           

          A lot of people are angry about the subscription issue because if you stop paying you can't use the software anymore. So going back to edit an old project is going to mean signing up again, for a minimum of one month. I seldom go back to edit old projects and the monthly subscription is great for me. But it is a personal decision that you need to make. You can buy the CS6 software and own it forever. Or you can subscribe and have the latest and greates of virtually every program Adobe makes.

          • 2. Re: AVCHD / 60p / 1920 x 1080
            RJ73 Level 1

            Steve,

             

            Thank you very much for the excellent informaiton, greatly appreciated.

             

            So when using CC is one using Adobe's processing power more than locally?

             

            Again, thanks.

             

            Ron

            • 3. Re: AVCHD / 60p / 1920 x 1080
              Steven L. Gotz Level 5

              So when using CC is one using Adobe's processing power more than locally?

              Sorry, Ron, but I don't understand the question.

               

              Do you mean can you use multiple computers to process your video? No.

              • 4. Re: AVCHD / 60p / 1920 x 1080
                RJ73 Level 1

                Hi Steve,

                 

                What I meant was if one is using Adobe Creative Cloud are you not accessing the programs on their servers and as such using their processing power?

                 

                Ton

                • 5. Re: AVCHD / 60p / 1920 x 1080
                  Rallymax-forum Level 3

                  "Cloud" is a misanomer.

                  Adobe products download and install to your computer just like any other program. They do not run on a Server Farm on the internet (aka "Cloud Computing").

                  The only thing that is "Cloud" based is the ability to choose individual programs from their servers to download and install vs downloading all 6GB as one big glob and then choosing the apps to install.

                  • 6. Re: AVCHD / 60p / 1920 x 1080
                    SAFEHARBOR11 Most Valuable Participant

                    Hi Ron,

                     

                    I think perhaps you share the common misconception that when using Adobe CC, that the software lives in the cloud. Don't let the name fool you - all of the Adobe apps are installed on your edit machine, just as before. There are some online collaboration tools, notably with the TEAM versions, but all processing is done locally on your computer, there is no "cloud engine" working on things for you.

                     

                    Back to the original question. I don't have a camera that shoots 60p, but wish I did have the option at times. I do say option, since just because you have it doesn't necessarily mean it should be used for every shoot. As Steven mentioned, a good reason to shoot progressive is when the footage is destined for the web and/or computer viewing, as computer screens are all progressive. But there are different progressive frame rates available such as 24p, 30p, and 60p (depending on camera model).

                     

                    24p is often used for wedding footage or indie-film type of work where the videographer wants to mimic the look or cadence of film. But 24p can look very jerky when panned and requires a change of shooting style.

                     

                    30p will be smoother, but still have a different look than interlaced. And then if you go to 60p, maybe that is good for shooting football and other action scenes where a high frame rate will provide sharper motion, but most notably, allows for better slow-motion since there are more frames to work with = less movement frame to frame. And if you put a 60p clip in a 30p sequence, you have silky-smooth 50% slow-mo, and in a 24p project I think it's more like 40% speed, but again silky smooth.

                     

                    A large part of the decision is about aesthetics - what the shooter thinks looks good for the given project and/or subject matter. Not necessarily a right or wrong, though I wouldn't shoot sports at 24p for instance.

                     

                    So do some reading and experimenting and see what you like for your workflow. Some things to consider - if you shoot 1080p60, and wish to deliver on Blu-ray, 1080p60 is not supported, you'd need to change to 1080p30 perhaps in the edit or export stage. Or you could go with 720p59.94 delivery. As I said, I don't have a 60p camera, so don't claim to be an expert in that area, but 60p may complicate the workflow a bit if you don't understand the pitfalls.

                     

                    PS - the YouTube and Vimeo export presets in AME top out at 29.97 frames (30p), so even if you shoot at 60p, delivery is still 30p. So if not needing slow-motion you may find shooting at 30p ideal for web video, same format from camera to delivery.

                     

                    Thanks

                     

                    Jeff Pulera

                    Safe Harbor Computers

                    • 7. Re: AVCHD / 60p / 1920 x 1080
                      RJ73 Level 1

                      You're absolutely correct, 'Cloud' is indeed a serious misnomer.

                       

                      Many thanks!

                       

                      Ton

                      • 8. Re: AVCHD / 60p / 1920 x 1080
                        Rallymax-forum Level 3

                        SAFEHARBOR11 wrote:

                         

                         

                        So do some reading and experimenting and see what you like for your workflow. Some things to consider - if you shoot 1080p60, and wish to deliver on Blu-ray, 1080p60 is not supported, you'd need to change to 1080p30 perhaps in the edit or export stage.

                        Jeff Pulera

                        Safe Harbor Computers

                         

                        While 1080p60 is not a supported Bluray format you can encode to 1080p60 and set the interlaced flag in the h.264 header (x264pro does this). The result is a progressive encode which is far better quality compared to 1080i60 (it compresses better).

                        Some bluray players will output 1080p60 by de-interlacing the progressive frame (yes that's typed correctly). Others will send it out as 1080p30 (ie de-interlaced) or 1080i60 depending on how you have it configured for the TV. Ultimately all non-CRT displays are progressive so you set a progressive image even though it was sent to the TV as interlaced. So, for my 2c I say edit in 60p if you want that "look" and export as "fake interlaced" 1080p60.

                        • 9. Re: AVCHD / 60p / 1920 x 1080
                          Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                          To add just a little bit to Jeff's well worded response...

                           

                          There are a few "cloud" features in the Creative Cloud. If you consider the 20GB storage, and the web based Behance and Prosite features. But no, they really should not have used "Cloud" because it has caused them more trouble than it is worth, I think.

                           

                          But as you have heard, the processing is on your computer. In fact, I really wish I could set up two or more computers locally to process video, but Premiere Pro does not support render farms. Not yet.

                           

                          On the subject of video...

                           

                          I like shooting 60p but there are disadvantages. Let's take my camera for example. I shoot with the Panasonic DMC-GH3.

                           

                          When I shoot at 60p I can't use the Extended Teleconverter. That is a feature that causes the camera to just use the 1920X1080 pixels in the center of the sensor when shooting video. What that means is that instead of using the entire sensor and then scaling it down to fit the 1080p standard, the camera just shoots with the pixels it needs. So everything looks 2.6 times closer. I was shooting boats on the water today and I used it for the first time. I was shooting things almost full frame that I could barely see with my naked eye. Pretty cool. But I had to shoot 30p or 24p to do that.

                           

                          Let's talk about quality of the video, based in part on compression. If I shoot 60 frames per second and store it at 50Mb/s then the compression is twice what it is when I shoot 30p and store it at 50Mb/s. I get even higher quality by compressing it less when I shoot 24p at 50Mb/s. Make sense, right?  When I bought the camera I thought I would be shooting 24p all-intra, which while it is easy on the PC, has to store a lot more information because every frame has all of the information instead of some of them just storing the changes from the key frame. So storing it at 72Mb/s is still compressing it more than standard 24p at 50Mb/s.

                           

                          Now, I have to say I don't really see the difference, but I haven't stressed the quality of the image in my editing workflow either. Not yet anyway. If I was going to use a Digital Intermediate, I would stick to the method that compresses my video the least.

                           

                          Keep in mind that there are a lot of people who swear that 24p is more "film like" due to the motion blur and movement. I find it hard to disagree with them. I want to, but it appears that 24p is less "real" and makes it easier to suspend disbelief. People can get lost in the story. When people see 30fps or 60fps they complain that it is too real. They are used to seeing their TV news that way, not their movies. They can't see fantasy at the same quality and motion attributes as they see their news. Not yet anyway. Gamers who play at even higher frame rates may eventually take over the world, but apparently "The Hobbit" at 48fps annoyed a LOT of purists.

                          • 10. Re: AVCHD / 60p / 1920 x 1080
                            RJ73 Level 1

                            Steven,

                             

                            Again, thank you very much for the highly detailed explanation. It does help considerably!

                             

                            Ron