22 Replies Latest reply on Sep 19, 2013 4:49 AM by Peter Spier

    Photoshop verses InDesign

    Bauer58

      As a photographer I currently only use Photoshop. I need to design a CD cover for a professional musician and was told I shouldn't use PS for the design. How is the learning curve in InDesign?  I have

      never used the software before..any suggestions for reading, Tutorials..etc??

        • 1. Re: Photoshop verses InDesign
          Steve Werner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          I highly recommend Sandee Cohen's Visual Quickstart Guide for InDesign. It's available from Amazon.com and everywhere at a very reasonable price for every version of InDesign. It should get you into InDesign for your project. (Of course, if I were to ask you "how's the learning curve for Photoshop...it's sort of like that!)

          • 2. Re: Photoshop verses InDesign
            Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            And to add to Steve - InDesign used to come with a lot of templates - but they were removed for whatever reason. However, they have been salvaged and available here

             

            http://indesignsecrets.com/resources/indesign-templates

            • 3. Re: Photoshop verses InDesign
              BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

              Normally I would agree, but in this case, I'd say go ahead and do it in

              Photoshop. Just make sure to keep the text live and save the file as a PDF

              to retain the vector data.

              • 4. Re: Photoshop verses InDesign
                Bauer58 Level 1

                Bob, So you think I should be fine?  I worry about the text.  What do you mean keep the text "live" 

                • 5. Re: Photoshop verses InDesign
                  BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                  I mean don't rasterize the text layers. When you're done save as Photoshop PDF.

                   

                  To be clear, however, InDesign is a far better choice for this type of project but if it's a one-off I don't see much benefit of going through the learning curve to essentially add a few paragraphs of text to an image.

                  • 6. Re: Photoshop verses InDesign
                    Bauer58 Level 1

                    Ok.. great.. this has been helpful.  I hate having to spend the money for one project since as a photographer I only use photoshop. 

                    • 7. Re: Photoshop verses InDesign
                      iam01printer Level 1

                      The reason InDesign and Ai are better for type is they are vector art programs, no dots or pixels are used to create image, this is why you can blow up vector art to any size without distortion. Photoshop is a raster art program ONLY, it uses pixels/dots to create images, and not matter how you save the file, it will still be a raster image and have pixels. This is the reason for the whole Creative Suite, so they all flow together for the specific task. Photoshop for photos, illustrator for logos and artwork design, and finally InDesign to pull it all together to put in a page layout to be exactly how the final product is suppose to be. That being said, as long as you start out your file as atleast a 300 dpi image, it will come out fine usually if it is just minimal type.

                      • 8. Re: Photoshop verses InDesign
                        John Mensinger Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        Not entirely true. As Bob alludes in posts #'s 3 and 5, it is certainly possible to preserve live type and other vector content in a Photoshop file.

                        • 9. Re: Photoshop verses InDesign
                          iam01printer Level 1

                          It still will be a raster image. Try doing that and open the pdf in ai and try to edit it. Try creating a file with spot pms colors and then try to print a seperation of those colors, they will only convert to cmyk as it is a raster image file. I have dealt with this misconception for many years in the print industry, I started before desktop publishing and have learned through its growth.

                          • 10. Re: Photoshop verses InDesign
                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                            Illustyrator is NOT a general purpose PDF editor. Photoshop PDFs can be opened in Photoshop exactly as they were saved, and they are completely editable there, as long as you specify to maintian Photoshop editablily when you save them..

                            • 11. Re: Photoshop verses InDesign
                              BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                              What does Illustrator have to do with this? Illustrator is NOT a general

                              purpose PDF editor.

                               

                              Now, lets keep this in perspective please. I don't think I'm going out

                              on a limb here to say the OP is not sending this to 8 color press and as

                              a one-off there is no reason for someone who's never used InDesign to

                              buy it or learn it.

                              • 12. Re: Photoshop verses InDesign
                                iam01printer Level 1

                                Absolutely she can use photoshop to do that. I was only try to explain the reasons for using indesign instead of photoshop(as she asked) and how they all work, and to explain vector and raster art and that photoshop is a raster art program only.

                                • 13. Re: Photoshop verses InDesign
                                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                  iam01printer wrote:

                                   

                                  photoshop is a raster art program only.

                                  That's really not true any longer, any more than it's true to say that Illustrator is 100% vector. Both programs can create files that contain both raster and vector objects.

                                  • 14. Re: Photoshop verses InDesign
                                    iam01printer Level 1

                                    Nice! I am always up for learning! I tested my own theory and I was wrong! Yikes..it happens! haha..I know that it used to be that way and I have not even thought different until now! That opens up a whole new prospective of these great Adobe products! I started printing in 1988 and it sure has changed, and always up to new tricks. I ran all offset presses up until 4 years ago, I am by no means a designer, I am a Printer,  and it has been quite the learning curve! Thats part of what I love about this industry. Thanks Peter!

                                    • 15. Re: Photoshop verses InDesign
                                      Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

                                      Some additional perspective for this thread ...

                                       

                                      Although it is true that you can get text and vector out of Photoshop, I would not recommend Photoshop for any significant amount of non-image content and even then, there are a number of issues to watch out for.

                                       

                                      (1)     Text and vector content in smart objects gets rasterized upon PDF or any other output, unfortunately.

                                       

                                      (2)     Text layers are often rasterized for PDF output if such text is subject to various effects even if within Photoshop, the text is still “live.”

                                       

                                      (3)     Text output to PDF often comes out as masks as opposed to traditionally-rendered text.

                                       

                                      (4)     Photoshop only allows for a single color space. Thus is one is producing a object with black text and an RGB  photographic image, you must prematurely convert the image to a CMYK color space if you want true CMYK=(0,0,0,1) black. Otherwise, you will most likely end up with a muddy rich CMYK black as a result of conversion from RGB at print time.

                                       

                                      I am not trying to discourage use of Photoshop and I recognize that there is indeed a very steep learning curve for both Illustrator and InDesign, but I have seen quite a few disasters for print when either full works or advertisements were done completely in Photoshop because the designer was so comfortable only with Photoshop.

                                       

                                                - Dov

                                      • 16. Re: Photoshop verses InDesign
                                        iam01printer Level 1

                                        That is why I think it is a good idea to have and learn to use them all, as I believe Adobe intended. Photoshop for creating and dealing with pics, illustrator for custom designed artwork such as logos and InDesign to pull it all together in a page layout  and the type.to have the final product and then Acrobat PDF's for the universal output and sharing.

                                        • 17. Re: Photoshop verses InDesign
                                          Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

                                          In 100% violent agreement with you! 

                                           

                                                    - Dov

                                          • 18. Re: Photoshop verses InDesign
                                            iam01printer Level 1

                                            A PDF workflow maybe? They should coin that!

                                            • 19. Re: Photoshop verses InDesign
                                              Bauer58 Level 1

                                              So Dov, is it possible to creat a Cd and send it to print using PS only?  Also.. one of the things I see is I started the project in RGB and once I got to the diskmakers web site they suggest using CMYK.. I switched over and ugh!  the colors looked so muddy.. there is a rainbow of colors on the CD cover and when switched over.. they lost all of their impact.  What am I doing wrong.. Purple was muddy brown purple.. this wan't the effect I was looking for.

                                              I am no PS expert by any means.. I only use it to enhance photos for print and have designed simple flyers and books with templates.  I obviously have a lot to learn.  Help!!!!

                                              • 20. Re: Photoshop verses InDesign
                                                Bauer58 Level 1

                                                I am most worried about the text.  The front cover is no problem. I don't think that is going to be an issue, but on the back and insides will be song lists, credits etc which will be on top of a collage of photos.  What I am going to need to do in inDesign is pretty basic.. just drop photos in, white some text over it.. The front is where I have done an actual design with colors..and that's where I am worried about the RGB/CMYK issue.

                                                I am doing this project for a good friend who asked if I could do it for him.. at first I thought sure!  No problem.. then I started reading the info on the Disk makers website.. and thought maybe I'm in way over my head.. or maybe I am reading too much in to things.  I just don't want to get the proof back and I have to start from square one.. I want it done the right way up front.  If I have to use InDesign, I'll do it..

                                                • 21. Re: Photoshop verses InDesign
                                                  Michael Gianino Level 4

                                                  Bauer58 wrote:

                                                   

                                                  I started the project in RGB…there is a rainbow of colors on the CD cover and when switched over.. they lost all of their impact.

                                                  Look at these two screenshots from Photoshop:

                                                  Screen shot 2013-09-19 at 6.11.26 AM.png

                                                  Screen shot 2013-09-19 at 6.11.36 AM.png

                                                  Do you see the little red oval I placed in the second screenshot? That shows that the color I've chosen in my CMYK file using the RGB values of 0-255-0 has a warning icon (the triangle with ! inside). The warning is that the color is outside of the gamut of colors that CMYK can reproduce. You can do it in RGB because RGB color is made with direct light (the light that the monitor makes), while CMYK is made with indirect light (the light that bounces off of the combination of CMYK inks that you lay down on paper). There is no way to display that color with CMYK, so there's nothing you can do. The only thing you can do is pick colors that CMYK can produce, or accept the nearest CMYK equivalent. That CMYK equivalent is chosen by a process that I'll let someone else explain.

                                                  • 22. Re: Photoshop verses InDesign
                                                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                    Bauer58 wrote:

                                                     

                                                    So Dov, is it possible to creat a Cd and send it to print using PS only? 

                                                    I'm not Dov, but I think the answer to that is basically yes. That said, if the out put needs to be CMYK and you have small black text, you probably want to convert to CMYK yourself BEFORE you add the text to keep it crisp. There's nothing inherently wrong with text in 4-color black, it's darker than black ink only, but it may not print sharply and the samller the size the worse that will look.

                                                     

                                                    If you do decide to do the conversion, it's very important to know the correct profile to get the very best color rendition possible, and I would do it to a COPY of the file using Edit > Convert to Profile...

                                                     

                                                    Michael has already told you that there are many bright RGB colors that are "out of gamut" and can't be produced with CMYK ink on paper, but the gamuts for various CMYK spaces can be quite different and there is no point in losing colors by choosing the wrong profile.