18 Replies Latest reply: Sep 21, 2013 10:20 AM by J. Simon RSS

    Question about importing

    Adrtghhjj Community Member

      (This question isn't referring strictly to Premiere Pro, but to any NLE.)

       

      Considering a movie that has the following properties: is high-end (not consumer or broadcast-grade), is digital, doesn't involve animation (2D or 3D), only camera footage:

      -What is the standard format of file that is loaded into the NLE; i.e. the file that is in the bins and the Timeline, for cutting, trimming and adding transitions purposes?

      -Is it video or image sequence? Is so, what type/format?

        • 2. Re: Question about importing
          Adrtghhjj Community Member

          Ann Bens wrote:

           

          Premiere can import many camera footage.

           

          http://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/transferring-importing-files .html

          I know that it can. My question is not whether it can but:

          - Is it standard practice to directly cut, trim and add transitions to camera footage (by which I assume RAW) in PrPro/Media Composer?" and that only in the conditions detailed in my first post.

          I would greatly appreciate opinions from professionals in this forum.

          • 3. Re: Question about importing
            SAFEHARBOR11 MVP

            Ann's link perfectly answered the question in regards to Premiere. .Regarding other NLEs, they will each have their own set of rules as to what formats you can work with. There is no single "standard" for footage to be edited in an NLE. Most of them can accept whatever your particular camera outputs. "RAW" is a specific type of file and I don't think you were referring to that necessarily, so I would say yes that most NLEs can edit the "raw footage" from the camera meaning it does not need to be trancoded (converted) to something else first.

             

            Perhaps you can be more specific as to the origin/purpose of your question? It comes across as if you're looking for the answer to a bar bet ;-)

             

            And also, how can a movie be "high-end", yet NOT "broadcast-grade"? That seems contradictory

             

            Thanks

             

            Jeff

            • 4. Re: Question about importing
              Steven L. Gotz Community Member

              If you are shooting digital, it can be handled one of two ways. Native or transcoded.

               

              Regardless of the "quality" of the footage.

               

              Having said that, the higher the quality, and by that I will assume you mean the closer to 4:4:4, the more likely that your computer will not have the processing power or hard drive speed to get it off of the disk fast enough to edit it.

               

              If native, then you might be forced to use proxies to help you while you edit.

               

              Just for reference, Premiere Pro has presets for the footage from an Arri (ARRIRAW at 2K using 1920X1080) and RED R3D files at 4.5K.

               

              It doesn't get much more high-end than that. Is that the kind of footage you meant? Because as pointed out already, some NLEs can handle it, and some can't.

              • 5. Re: Question about importing
                Ann Bens ACP/MVPs

                Maybe you should refrase the question.

                I have so and so footage and want to make it into so and so.

                 

                high-end (not consumer or broadcast-grade)

                What kind of footage is it exactly?

                • 6. Re: Question about importing
                  the_wine_snob Community Member

                  One additional observation, that might be nit-picking, or perhaps helpful to getting the answer:

                   

                  What is the standard format of file that is loaded into the NLE; i.e. the file that is in the bins and the Timeline, for cutting, trimming and adding transitions purposes?

                  The original camera files are not in the Bins, or on the Timeline. PrPro only links to those original camera files to first extract the data from them, then re-access those files, to extract data, when one Exports. The files, themselves are not in the Project - only links to them.

                   

                  Also, as others (Steven in particular) have alluded, different NLE's do things differently. PrPro, as an example, will Import and edit most file formats/CODEC's natively, when some others do not. Those other NLE's do an internal conversion to proxy files, which are then edited. It can differ, program to program.

                   

                  Good luck,

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 7. Re: Question about importing
                    Adrtghhjj Community Member

                    SAFEHARBOR11 wrote:

                     

                    Perhaps you can be more specific as to the origin/purpose of your question?

                    First, thanks to all for the answers.

                    Second, I just want to know out of theoretical curiosity what file formats are generally used in high-end facilities- like the Hollywood ones, as opposed to online videos like Youtube ones. I couldn't find any info on these on the net.

                     

                    So, about my questions:

                    - I understand there's not a single standard for file formats used in editing, but what would a serious editor (like one cutting Avatar or other blockbusters) have in their NLE's bins or timelines? What kind of files?

                    Would they:

                      -import camera recordings (raw format) into PrPro, cut and trim those?

                      -convert the raw footage into image sequences, import these into PrPro, cut and trim them(if so, what type: PNG, TIFF, TGA, JPEG, BMP) ?

                      -convert the raw footage into video(s), import into PrPro, cut and trim the video(s) (if so, what type: AVI, MOV, DNxHD, ProRes, MPEG, FLV, MXF, MP4) ?

                    If there's more than one good (as in "good for pros"), widely-used format, please give examples. I just want to avoid the low-end options fit for online videos or middle-end for television.

                     

                    Please note I only asked for what formats are use in NLE's. I hear VFX software (like AE) or Color-grading (Resolve, Speedgrade) work in different ways. My questions refer to NLE's only.

                    • 8. Re: Question about importing
                      Steven L. Gotz Community Member

                      I suggest you avoid getting ahead of yourself.

                       

                      Pick a format that is appropriate for your camera and your editing software.

                       

                      That is what the big boys do.

                       

                      Let's take the movie "Gravity". Is that Hollywood enough for you? They shot it on an Arri and edited the 2K DI. As I said before, Premiere Pro can do that natively.

                       

                      Capture.PNG

                      • 9. Re: Question about importing
                        the_wine_snob Community Member

                        As Steven points out, above, Hollywood will make a lot of pre-shooting decisons, and if Video is used (as opposed to film), DI (Digital Intermediate) considerations, plus the specific cameras, will be part of that discussion.

                         

                        Some Directors/DP's might decide to go with Arri vs RED, or several others, but those are studied decisions. Also, many will ask for input from their post-house, as some prefer one format/CODEC vs another.

                         

                        For additional reading, and consideration, there are many recent articles in American Cinematographer, on some of those decisions. Those are well-worth reading. I am often amazed at all of the considerations taken into account, when starting a production. Once, we only really worried about lenses and the film stock (plus processing/printing), but those discussions have expanded greatly, with video. That will get more complicated every quarter, as more options become available.

                         

                        Good luck,

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 10. Re: Question about importing
                          Adrtghhjj Community Member

                          Steven L. Gotz wrote:

                           

                          They (...) edited the 2K DI.

                          "Edited" meaning in an NLE? Because I've read that editing can mean VFX and color-grading, too.

                          "DI"- digital intermediate - what exactly is that? I mean, on the editors' HDD's, what form does the DI take, as a file?

                          • 11. Re: Question about importing
                            J. Simon Community Member

                            on the editors' HDD's, what form does the DI take, as a file?

                             

                            That will vary with the editor.  There is no one standard format or method here, there are many.

                            • 12. Re: Question about importing
                              Adrtghhjj Community Member

                              Could you give me some examples that are common? AVI, MPEG, raw footage (and what kind of raw footage: R3D, ari, crw etc.).

                              • 13. Re: Question about importing
                                Community Member

                                sometimes people tend to make things more complicated than they need to be by not explaining the basics...as you are asking.

                                 

                                If I shoot with an alexa camera I have the option of recording to a 'card' on the camera ( usually log c which is a kind of raw and pro res combination ). The manufacturers of cameras make up their own special 'recording' stuff to make the cameras suitable to shoot on locations etc.

                                 

                                the red camera has their red raw formats, my nikon d800 does mov h264.. everything is different according to the manufacturer. There are standards ( based on broadcast and movie specs ) but basically the words 'digital intermediate' can be very misleading. It almost sounds as though you will edit something that is ' in between' the source footage and the final export ... like a 'proxy' sort of file.

                                 

                                It can be that, but more than likely it is not for most people using adobe products.

                                 

                                unfortunately this stuff is so complicated on the pro end of things you will get many answers like the one above.. which doesnt really address the question at the root .  There are some good sites online regarding specific manufacturers of cameras and how the material is best 'edited' and so on.. look up panavision and arri and red... and good luck.. it aint easy figuring this stuff out... but luckily you have a good start here ..

                                 

                                 

                                • 14. Re: Question about importing
                                  J. Simon Community Member

                                  Could you give me some examples that are common

                                   

                                  I kind of get the feeling we may be dancing around the real issue/question here, that you may be trying to glean some info so you can make a decision.

                                   

                                  It would be quicker (and possibly better for you) if we just cut to the real issue.  What is it exactly you're trying to solve here?

                                  • 15. Re: Question about importing
                                    Adrtghhjj Community Member

                                    Jim Simon wrote:

                                     

                                    I kind of get the feeling we may be dancing around the real issue/question here, that you may be trying to glean some info so you can make a decision.

                                    No, I don't have a purchase or career decision to make. I'm not even in the movie-making business and I don't own or plan to own a camera. I just want to know because I was curious. That is all.

                                     

                                    I understand there are many formats and workflows suited to many situations.

                                    What I need is some concrete, definite names of file formats that would not seem *unreasonable* to a

                                    high-end studio to work with.

                                    What I mean by "unreasonable": I've read that no professional editing facility would accept sequences of

                                    compressed JPEG's or GIF's (or compressed AVI/FLV's) to make a feature film. It said they would laugh at those formats- too lossy, etc.

                                    *That* would be *unreasonable*. "Windows Movie Maker"-level.

                                     

                                    That is what I really want to know: not so much "what is the best format for that NLE/camera" , but more "what would not be unacceptable, *unreasonable* formats for the high-end"?

                                    • 16. Re: Question about importing
                                      Steven L. Gotz Community Member

                                      That is what I really want to know: not so much "what is the best format for that NLE/camera" , but more "what would not be unacceptable, *unreasonable* formats for the high-end"?

                                      Way more formats are unacceptable than acceptable.

                                       

                                      In most cases, we could just say that anything lossy is bad, anything not lossy is probably OK.

                                       

                                      So no JPG. No GIF.

                                       

                                      There are image formats that are lossless. DNG is lossless and was designed by Adobe.

                                       

                                      Perhaps you might want to start here:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_cinematography

                                      • 17. Re: Question about importing
                                        Ann Bens ACP/MVPs

                                        No, I don't have a purchase or career decision to make. I'm not even in the movie-making business and I don't own or plan to own a camera. I just want to know because I was curious. That is all.

                                        Why did you not say in the first place.

                                        • 18. Re: Question about importing
                                          J. Simon Community Member

                                          What I need is some concrete, definite names of file formats that would not seem *unreasonable* to a high-end studio to work with.

                                           

                                          It's probably best if one asked the studios one wants to give one's media to what formats they will accept.