8 Replies Latest reply: Sep 20, 2013 1:53 PM by rob day RSS

    Spot color CMYK values are now LAB in indesign 6

    MickMaher1066 Community Member

      When I choose a spot color using InDesign 5, I get the CMYK values and have the option to use LAB values if I select "Use Standard Lab Values for Spots" from the ink manager.

       

      In Indesign 6 I no longer have that option. The spot colors come in as LAB whether or not the "Use Standard Lab Values for Spots" is selected in the ink manager.

       

      This is causing all kinds of problems. Why was the functionality changed. What can I do to have the program work as it did before?

        • 1. Re: Spot color CMYK values are now LAB in indesign 6
          Tom Usrey Community Member

          The reason is because CS6 uses the newer Pantone Plus libraries which do use LAB values.

           

          I think you should be able to load the previous Pantone libraries into InDesign CS6 and use both the older and newer at the same time if you wanted (or switch to the old).

           

          Illustrator does not work the same way. You can only have one Pantone library at a time loaded, but can switch to the older library if you wanted.

           

          Google should turn up instructions.

          • 2. Re: Spot color CMYK values are now LAB in indesign 6
            MickMaher1066 Community Member

            Tried the the color library from 5 in 6 already; no luck.

             

            It still will only recognize the LAB values.

             

            And the Pantone Plus values are much different from the previous CMYK values. Which is a problem.

             

            Thanks for your input.

            • 3. Re: Spot color CMYK values are now LAB in indesign 6
              Peter Spier ACP/MVPs

              In color managed workflows it's generally accepted that Lab conversions give better results, but I can understand how for an older workflow where you are trying to match previous output you need the old numbers. You could try making a copy of the swatch, then redefine it to be Process and give it the numbers you want. If you name it something like Process Pantone XXX you should be able to delete the original spot swatches from the file and replace with the process versions (though this won't help with placed content that uses your spots).

              • 4. Re: Spot color CMYK values are now LAB in indesign 6
                MickMaher1066 Community Member

                Yeah. Thanks Peter.

                 

                I do use the LAB values most of the time.

                But sometimes the customer wants the exact CMYK values from before.

                 

                It was just easier to select LAB from the Ink Manager.

                 

                Later—

                • 5. Re: Spot color CMYK values are now LAB in indesign 6
                  rob day MVP

                  Here are the legacy Pantone solid libraries

                   

                  http://www.zenodesign.com/forum/LegacyPantone.zip

                   

                  Unzip and copy to Applications:Adobe InDesign CS6:Presets:Swatch Libraries:

                   

                  These libraries don't replace Pantone + Solid, they will appear at the bottom of the selection list:

                   

                  ScreenSnapz001.png

                   

                  You still need to uncheck Use Lab to get CMYK:

                   

                  Screen Shot 2013-09-20 at 11.51.52 AM.png

                   

                  Coated, Matte, and Uncoated have the same definitions, so you only need one, in any case the definition, Lab or CMYK has no effect on the output of a spot color.

                  • 6. Re: Spot color CMYK values are now LAB in indesign 6
                    MickMaher1066 Community Member

                    Thank you very much Rob.

                     

                    But in my case when I export with color conversion set to " Convert to Destionation (preserve Numbers).

                    The spot numbers will remain as stated in CMYK as long as I don't select "Use Standard Lab Values for Spots" using the Ink Manager. But if I am color managing the spot colors I will use the LAB values and convert to my printing profile to better match the spot LAB values.

                     

                    So you see in my case choosing LAB or CMYK does have an effect on the output of a spot color.

                     

                    I use preserve numbers when I am printing legacy CMYK files that I don't want to change but have RGB files that I want to convert.

                     

                    Thanks for you help. Appreciated

                    • 7. Re: Spot color CMYK values are now LAB in indesign 6
                      rob day MVP

                      So you see in my case choosing LAB or CMYK does have an effect on the output of a spot color.

                       

                      The definition affects the screen display or a composite proof simulation of the spot color, but not the extra spot color separation—if you spec a 100% tint of Pantone Orange it will output as 100% on the orange spot plate no matter what the color definition is.

                       

                      The definition would also affect the conversion to process color, but then it wouldn't be a spot color anymore. If your legacy jobs are really process color then the libraries I posted will work for preserving the original CMYK mixes. However those mixes are device dependent and would change in appearance depending on the press conditions

                      • 8. Re: Spot color CMYK values are now LAB in indesign 6
                        rob day MVP

                        Why was the functionality changed.

                        You might not notice the problems caused by solid ink CMYK definitions if you tend to leave Color Settings at the defaults.

                         

                        The obvious problem is with some colors that are out of the CMYK gamut and can't be displayed or printed with a CMYK mix. Pantone Purple is a good example. If you take the legacy mix for Pantone Purple—38|88|0|0—and assign it different CMYK profiles, you'll get different previews for the same mix, which simulates what would happen to the same values under different press conditions.

                         

                        If you were printing Purple as a spot color, the CMYK press conditions would have no effect on the color—with Lab definitons the CMYK profile also has no effect on the spot color's display.

                         

                        Here's Pantone Purple as Lab at the top, which is displaying the more accurate out-of-gamut color. Below is 38|88|0|0 with three different profile assignments, which one is right?:

                         

                        Screen Shot 2013-09-20 at 4.24.47 PM.png