1 2 Previous Next 40 Replies Latest reply on Jun 15, 2014 8:34 PM by Jim Hackett

    Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?

    Charleton A Wyman Level 1

      Anyone tell me how to read a RAF file please?

       

       

      I am using PS Elements 8 and a Fuji X20 with *.RAF files.

       

      The PS e8 is fully updated.

        • 1. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
          Noel Carboni Level 7

          Adobe doesn't make a practice of adding new camera support to older versions of Photoshop that are no longer currently selling.

           

          If your camera is newer than your version of Photoshop, you'll want to do one of two things:

           

          1.  Use the latest version of Adobe's free DNG converter to convert your raw files to the .DNG format, which can then be read by your older version of Photoshop.

           

          -or-

           

          2.  Upgrade Photoshop to the latest version, which (assuming support for your camera has already been added) will be able to open the raw files directly.

           

          -Noel

          • 2. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
            Charleton A Wyman Level 1

            Reply. Thanks for the advice.

            If true this is yet another reason why I do not intend to buy anymore Adobe Software.

             

            But thanks all the same.

             

            Which of the multide of versions and updates would I need?

             

            It's obvious enout to me that a simple patch to my version of Photoshop would be easier for everyone, expecially Adobe.

            • 3. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
              Charleton A Wyman Level 1

              Sadly the DNG software  does not do such a good job as the MAC OS (Preview).

               

              The converter program looses light and definition in the convertion.

               

              Pretty poor show Adobe!!!

              • 4. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                What version of Elements and what specific camera model are you trying to adjust RAF files from?  And what version of DNG Converter are you using?  Each version of Elements is compatible with particular versions of the camera raw plug-in and each camera model is only natively supported by versions of the camera raw plug-in newer than when the camera was introduced.  The DNG Converter just creates a version of a raw file that can be adjusted by obsolete versions of the Camera RAW plugin that don’t natively support a particular camera model.  There are also compatibility options in the DNG Converter that need to be set for the image to look right.

                • 5. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                  Noel Carboni Level 7

                  You bought a new camera...  Why not buy the latest new software to deal with its files?

                   

                  -Noel

                  • 6. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                    Charleton A Wyman Level 1

                    Yeah , and why don't you take a flying leap and burn the entire contens of your own paycheck?

                    • 7. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                      Charleton A Wyman Level 1

                      Camera Fuji x20

                      Adobe PS Elements 8

                      • 8. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                        Noel Carboni Level 7

                        Gee, if you're that nasty to people who try to help you for free, I'd hate to see how you act toward adversaries.

                         

                        You're welcome.

                         

                        -Noel

                        • 9. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                          Charleton A Wyman Level 1

                          NAsty? - that's a joke.

                           

                          You call that helping?

                          What you asked was "You bought a new camera...  Why not buy the latest new software to deal with its files?"

                          That is what is know as as stupid question.  I'm smart enough to have thought of that, don't you think.

                          If I wanted to re-buy my software again, I'd not be asking how to AVOID it.

                           

                          Think about it!

                          • 10. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                            JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            To put it straight, and to put it bluntly, if you want the best support for your new camera then you really should update your software. Yes, that means spending some more money. If that isn't acceptable to you then you will have to get by with whatever solution you can find. The DNG converter is one choice. Other third-party raw converters are another choice. It's up to you. Which is the best? Everyone has their own opinion. Try them all and decide for yourself.

                            • 11. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                              Noel Carboni Level 7

                              Clearly you haven't "thought about it" because you apparently can't imagine that the engineering that goes into the software you use costs someone time and effort, and they need to sell their product to put bread on the table.

                               

                              Just how nuch support did you really think your hundred bucks bought you 3+ years ago?  They DID after all provide you a complete solution for free in the form of the DNG converter.

                               

                              Also, have you considered that Adobe might have actually added things to the latest version that nake it worth having?  Hint - they did, and I've been trying to lead you to that knowledge.

                               

                              Why DID you buy a new camera anyway?  I'm betting the answer has something to do with making better pictures.  You don't think the software has something to do with that?

                               

                              -Noel

                              • 12. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                Yammer Level 4

                                Charleton A Wyman wrote:

                                 

                                Sadly the DNG software  does not do such a good job as the MAC OS (Preview).

                                 

                                The converter program looses light and definition in the convertion.

                                 

                                Pretty poor show Adobe!!!

                                That's all down to the way you use the software. If you prefer the preview (made by the camera, not MacOS) then there's no point shooting Raw. There's a common misconception that Raw files are supposed to impress, straight out of the camera. They are "Raw" and need cooking. Camera JPEGs (and Raw previews) are already cooked. Shooting Raw enables you to be a better chef than the camera. Metaphors over.

                                • 13. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                  Charleton A Wyman Level 1

                                  Dear Noel "objective and in no way bias in favour of Adobe" Carboni,

                                   

                                  Your argument is self defeating and based on ignorance.

                                  Adobe choose not to offer a patch to encourage people to buy and buy again.

                                  Responisble software houses provide support for thier products by providing patches that keep thier software up-to-date.

                                  If they canb provide a DNG converter to do the job them they can just as easily provide this facility "in-program'.

                                  If you knew the first thing about software design then you would know this.

                                   

                                  I have good reasons for buying another camera that has nothing to do with better pictures. Clearly you are not only ignorant of basic software design but lack an imagination too.

                                   

                                  And has to your commment;" I have been awarded several gift certificates and software subscriptions by Adobe. These awards and gifts in no way affect my being truthful or open in my postings here"

                                   

                                  Methinks he doth protest too much!

                                  • 14. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                    Charleton A Wyman Level 1

                                    You are missing the point.

                                    I want my Adobe software that I already paid good money for to do the job.

                                    • 15. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                      Yammer Level 4

                                      Charleton A Wyman wrote:

                                       

                                      You are missing the point.

                                      I want my Adobe software that I already paid good money for to do the job.

                                      You're missing the point: it doesn't do any less than it did when you bought it, and Adobe provides a free download to fix backwards compatibility.

                                       

                                      You should be complaining to the camera manufacturers who unnecessarily invent a new raw file format every time they release a new camera. They support JPEG and some support TIFF, why not DNG?

                                      • 16. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                        Charleton A Wyman Level 1

                                        I don't have to buy a new car when I have a new child, or change my wife.

                                        • 17. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                          Yammer Level 4

                                          Charleton A Wyman wrote:

                                           

                                          I don't have to buy a new car when I have a new child, or change my wife.

                                          Some might disagree!

                                          • 18. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                            Noel Carboni Level 7

                                            I once argued as you are, Charlie.

                                             

                                            Yet I met with the same answers that you are now getting, and I saw the light.

                                             

                                            Yammer is right on - your software does everything it did when you bought it.  In fact one of the features it has (and had when you bought it) was the ability to open DNG files.  Now, it may be that your version of Photoshop Camera Raw doesn't do as good conversions as today's newest versions, owing to engineering advancements in the past few years.  Your car maker doen't retrofit every new feature they deaign either into your old car, especially not for free!

                                             

                                            That Adobe provides you the DNG converter for free is proof they have stopped short of being predatory.  But if you want the ultimate in convenience and the best image quality, of course you have to pay.  Personally I think the balance they've struck is genius.

                                             

                                            You seem convinced you're not able to get good images via the RAF->DNG->Raw conversion process.  That's very likely YOUR fault, not the fault of the software.  You should concentrate on improving your skills there.

                                             

                                            Oh  and I can assure you I've forgotten more about software engineering this morning than you'll ever know.

                                             

                                            -Noel

                                            • 19. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                              Charleton A Wyman Level 1

                                              Noel,

                                                          ignorance upon ignorance. You do like to make yourself look stupid.

                                               

                                              1) My name is not Charlie, not any derivative thereof.

                                              2) You have not a clue as to the depths of my understanding of sofware design and have already shown your self deficient in this respect.

                                              3) Nothing you are saying here is anything that I don't already know.

                                              4) Your suggesting to spend more cash is still ridiculous.

                                              Anything else?

                                              • 20. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                                areohbee Level 6

                                                Charleton A Wyman wrote:

                                                 

                                                You call that helping?

                                                 

                                                Noels first response:

                                                 

                                                Noel Carboni wrote:

                                                 

                                                Adobe doesn't make a practice of adding new camera support to older versions of Photoshop that are no longer currently selling.

                                                 

                                                If your camera is newer than your version of Photoshop, you'll want to do one of two things:

                                                 

                                                1.  Use the latest version of Adobe's free DNG converter to convert your raw files to the .DNG format, which can then be read by your older version of Photoshop.

                                                 

                                                -or-

                                                 

                                                2.  Upgrade Photoshop to the latest version, which (assuming support for your camera has already been added) will be able to open the raw files directly.

                                                 

                                                -Noel

                                                I call that helping. - and if I may add: could hardly have been a more perfect response - exactly correct, unbiased, polite...

                                                 

                                                (The "less helpful" replies came later )

                                                 

                                                R

                                                • 21. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                                  areohbee Level 6

                                                  Charleton A Wyman wrote:

                                                   

                                                  Noel "objective and in no way bias in favour of Adobe" Carboni,

                                                  You obviously haven't read very many of Noel's posts in this forum. His other nick-name is:

                                                   

                                                  Noel "you complain too much about Adobe & Camera Raw" Carboni .

                                                   

                                                  Cheers,

                                                  Rob

                                                  • 23. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                                    Yammer Level 4

                                                    Charleton A Wyman wrote:

                                                     

                                                    4) Your suggesting to spend more cash is still ridiculous.

                                                    How? You bought a program without support for your camera, because it didn't exist at the time. You've been given a free solution, but you don't like it. The only other alternative is to upgrade or use other software.

                                                     

                                                    I understand where you're coming from. I have previously suggested that it's not rocket science to build something very similar to DNG Converter into the Camera Raw workflow, but Adobe is in it to make money, and they still provide a free alternative. It's the camera manufacturers who are at fault here but no one complains about them. Is it because they make hardware, which is perceived to be more valuable than software?

                                                     

                                                    Anyway. This is a user-to-user forum, so your beef is not being directed at Adobe. We're just a community of end-users, and the occasional Adobe techie, who don't make company policy.

                                                     

                                                    We could go back to your statement: "Sadly the DNG software  does not do such a good job as the MAC OS (Preview)." You never fully explained what you meant. As we are here to help each other out, we could tackle this aspect of the discussion, and get it back on track. Even old versions of Camera Raw should give you better results than the embedded previews. Maybe you have it set up wrong? Would you like some help with that?

                                                    • 24. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                                      ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                      Ø  Anything else?

                                                       

                                                      Yeah, stop posting here unless you have a technical question that the user-community can help with.

                                                      • 25. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                                        JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                        I agree with ssprengel.  If you want a solution to your problem, and you want to do it right, then upgrade your software.  If you have questions about the new software, we are here to help.  We enjoy exchanging ideas and learning from each other.  But complaining becomes obnoxious after a while.  And you passed that point a long time ago.

                                                        • 26. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                                          areohbee Level 6

                                                          Yammer wrote:

                                                           

                                                          We could go back to your statement: "Sadly the DNG software  does not do such a good job..."

                                                          Yeah, that concerns me - I mean: it should preserve the raw data exactly, so if there is some problem rendering a converted file, there must be some critical exif data that is amiss or something. Maybe OP could post a sample... Even if he/she has decided not to go that route, if there is a problem there I'm sure Adobe would want to know about it.

                                                          • 27. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                                            Noel Carboni Level 7

                                                            Charleton A Wyman wrote:

                                                             


                                                            2) You have not a clue.

                                                             

                                                            Apparently not.  I am used to dealing with rational people.

                                                             

                                                            I'm curious...  Did you read something in the Adobe literature 4 years ago when you bought Elements that led you to believe Adobe would continue to add new camera support to your version of the software from then on - i.e., to make you think you deserve free upgrades?

                                                             

                                                            -Noel

                                                            • 28. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                                              Charleton A Wyman Level 1

                                                              It does ntpt seem to be a Forum where people are interested.

                                                              They would rather give cash to Adobe than suggest where their corporate responibility might better be.

                                                              • 29. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                                                Yammer Level 4

                                                                Have you complained to Fujifilm about creating a raw format that is not supported by your software?

                                                                • 30. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                                                  Charleton A Wyman Level 1

                                                                  I don't have any programs that I bought in that year that have not been fully patched to keep up with new file formats.

                                                                   

                                                                  It's what is called compatibility.

                                                                   

                                                                  Even some cheap games have offered free patches to keep up with changes in OS, why not Adobe?

                                                                   

                                                                  If they are willing to offer a converter then why not simply patch the software? It does claim to update from time to time- why leave out the obvious?

                                                                   

                                                                  It's a no-brainer.

                                                                   

                                                                  That's all I am saying.

                                                                  • 31. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                                                    Yammer Level 4

                                                                    I guess that's a "no" then.

                                                                    • 32. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                                                      ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                      Adobe’s responsibility is to the shareholders and their employees.  To that end, they sell software and try to keep their customers happy. 

                                                                       

                                                                      Giving things away for free is a valid marketing strategy as long as this leads to more revenue for them in the future, but giving away software forever to a specific group of customers, might make those customers happy, but would be irresponsible in all other aspects.

                                                                      • 33. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                                                        Charleton A Wyman Level 1

                                                                        ssprengel.

                                                                         

                                                                        I'm not asking for more and better features. I want nothing for free they are not already providing in another way.

                                                                        All I'm asking for is that my program can read photofiles.

                                                                        It's a serice they offer in the convertor, why not in-program?

                                                                         

                                                                        And I'm not asking for dumb advice that tells me to go out and shed more cash.

                                                                        If I wanted to do that, I'd have done it already.

                                                                        • 34. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                                                          Yammer Level 4

                                                                          I just googled Photoshop Elements 8, and it's not been current for 3 years. Are there many software companies which give support for 3 year old software?

                                                                          • 35. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                                                            ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                            Providing patches for obsolete versions of software would require Adobe to spend more money keeping several different product version branches updated including the additional testing and deployment resources and not getting any revenue from this activity.

                                                                            • 36. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                                                              Yammer Level 4

                                                                              Yammer wrote:

                                                                               

                                                                              I just googled Photoshop Elements 8, and it's not been current for 3 years. Are there many software companies which give support for 3 year old software?

                                                                              Actually, it looks like they stopped support as soon as Elements 9 came out, which seems a bit harsh to me. They only run versions for 12 months too. I'd be annoyed too. Never used Elements though, its version of Camera Raw is too crippled.

                                                                              On the other hand, CS has traditionally run for 18-24 months with ACR updates sometimes even after the new CS version. They're still supporting CS6, but it's actually not that old still (18 months?). I wonder how long ACR8 updates will work on CS6.

                                                                              • 37. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                                                                areohbee Level 6

                                                                                Charleton A Wyman wrote:

                                                                                 

                                                                                why not in-program

                                                                                Somebody has to pay for their efforts to support new cameras. Who do you think should foot the bill? Yes, I'm fully aware they could retrofit new camera support into their older software, without an inordinate amount of effort - I imagine they don't really want to / not really motivated to...

                                                                                 

                                                                                Charleton A Wyman wrote:

                                                                                 

                                                                                And I'm not asking for dumb advice that tells me to go out and shed more cash.

                                                                                You only have 2 options, and you claim one option is a non-starter due to problematic DNG conversion, which you haven't wanted to talk about yet.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Rob

                                                                                • 38. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                                                                  JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                                  My suspicion is that he is probably complaining about the "change" that occurs when images are displayed in Camera Raw.  You know, the "change" that every new user complains about because they don't understand.

                                                                                  • 39. Re: Fuji RAW "RAF" How to read with photoshop?
                                                                                    Noel Carboni Level 7

                                                                                    Charleton A Wyman wrote:

                                                                                     


                                                                                    I want nothing for free they are not already providing in another way.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    And we've been trying to inform you, even in light of your childish insults, that the world is not like that, no matter how much you stamp your feet and cry.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Try to understand that a number of very smart people here, who have thought about this a lot longer than you have and quite likely understand things better than you do, are advising you that you're off base.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    You've been given the facts, including that the camera makers are purposefully creating unique file formats for each new camera they make, a practice which costs companies like Adobe significant engineering effort and time to decode.  Adobe has even developed a fully featured, open raw file specification (the DNG standard) that the camera makers could use to solve this problem directly, but nooo, most of them won't use it.  So you blame Adobe for not keeping your ancient software current, free of charge, and for some reason you seem to feel a software company shouldn't be allowed to profit from their work in improving their product. 

                                                                                     

                                                                                    You paid Fuji, the devious one in this situation, but you refuse to pay Adobe because they didn't reach into your computer and connect all the dots for you?  You seem to think that someone - anyone - other than you needs to be your system integrator.  As stated, the world is not like that.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Beyond that, you apparently don't have an interest in discussing how to get good results through the DNG conversion process, which despite your ranting folks here are still willing to discuss.  But it seems you're too smart to suspect that your own inability to operate the raw converter effectively could be the problem there.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Your choices are clear.  Pay to play, use the free product that invokes a bit of extra work, or go elsewhere.  I'm sorry I did not list 3.  Go away in my first response; my mistake.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    -Noel

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