5 Replies Latest reply on Oct 3, 2013 5:22 AM by Viewfinder98

    Premiere Elements 11 - overall bitrate not as target / maximum

    Viewfinder98

      I'm new to Premiere Elements and have been trying to produce a video with adverts edited out.  The media info of the imported video file is as follows.  I have only provided the video info as I'm not having any issues with the audio.

       

      The original file is a AVCHD .ts file from a DVB HD recording.

       

      As it is a 1080p file, I have made sure I have set my Project settings to PAL - DSLR - 1080p - DSLR 1080p25 as that is the only project that matches closely.

       

      Format                               : MPEG-TS
      File size                            : 25.9 MiB
      Duration                             : 41s 522ms
      Overall bit rate mode                : Variable
      Overall bit rate                     : 5 211 Kbps

       

      Video

      ID                                   : 201 (0xC9)
      Menu ID                              : 17608 (0x44C8)
      Format                               : AVC
      Format/Info                          : Advanced Video Codec
      Format profile                       : High@L4.0
      Format settings, CABAC               : Yes
      Format settings, ReFrames            : 4 frames
      Codec ID                             : 27
      Duration                             : 40s 880ms
      Width                                : 1 920 pixels
      Height                               : 1 080 pixels
      Display aspect ratio                 : 16:9
      Frame rate                           : 25.000 fps
      Color space                          : YUV
      Chroma subsampling                   : 4:2:0
      Bit depth                            : 8 bits
      Scan type                            : MBAFF
      Scan order                           : Top Field First
      Color primaries                      : BT.709
      Transfer characteristics             : BT.709
      Matrix coefficients                  : BT.709

       

      I then make the necessary cuts and then Publish and Share using the Computer preset and have tried two different MPEG profiles.  I first use the HDTV 1080p 25 High Quality with all default settings and end up with original clear and sharp quality video output but output file is 2.5x times the size of the original without the edits.

       

      Format                               : MPEG-PS
      File size                            : 62.6 MiB
      Duration                             : 40s 944ms
      Overall bit rate mode                : Variable
      Overall bit rate                     : 12.8 Mbps

       

      Video

      ID                                   : 224 (0xE0)
      Format                               : MPEG Video
      Format version                       : Version 2
      Format profile                       : Main@High
      Format settings, BVOP                : Yes
      Format settings, Matrix              : Default
      Format settings, GOP                 : M=3, N=12
      Duration                             : 40s 800ms
      Bit rate mode                        : Variable
      Bit rate                             : 12.2 Mbps
      Maximum bit rate                     : 18.5 Mbps
      Width                                : 1 920 pixels
      Height                               : 1 080 pixels
      Display aspect ratio                 : 16:9
      Frame rate                           : 25.000 fps
      Standard                             : PAL
      Color space                          : YUV
      Chroma subsampling                   : 4:2:0
      Bit depth                            : 8 bits
      Scan type                            : Progressive
      Compression mode                     : Lossy
      Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                   : 0.235
      Time code of first frame             : 00:00:00:00
      Time code source                     : Group of pictures header
      Stream size                          : 59.3 MiB (95%)
      Color primaries                      : BT.709
      Transfer characteristics             : BT.709
      Matrix coefficients                  : BT.709

       

      OK. I know the bitrates have also doubled, so I can see why filesize has too.  I then create a copy of the default HDTV 1080p 25 High Quality profile but with Minimum, Target and Maximum bitrate settings of 5Mbps to match the original source file.  That output file is smaller than the original, the video quality is poor and has artefacts - the strange thing is when looking at the info using MediaInfo, it shows an overall bitrate of 3MBps (3236Kbps) even though I had manually set all bitrate values to 5Mbps!

       

      Format                               : MPEG-PS
      File size                            : 15.8 MiB
      Duration                             : 40s 944ms
      Overall bit rate mode                : Variable
      Overall bit rate                     : 3 236 Kbps

       

      Video

      ID                                   : 224 (0xE0)
      Format                               : MPEG Video
      Format version                       : Version 2
      Format profile                       : High@High
      Format settings, BVOP                : Yes
      Format settings, Matrix              : Default
      Format settings, GOP                 : M=3, N=12
      Duration                             : 40s 800ms
      Bit rate mode                        : Variable
      Bit rate                             : 2 787 Kbps
      Maximum bit rate                     : 5 000 Kbps
      Width                                : 1 920 pixels
      Height                               : 1 080 pixels
      Display aspect ratio                 : 16:9
      Frame rate                           : 25.000 fps
      Standard                             : PAL
      Color space                          : YUV
      Chroma subsampling                   : 4:2:0
      Bit depth                            : 8 bits
      Scan type                            : Progressive
      Compression mode                     : Lossy
      Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                   : 0.054
      Time code of first frame             : 00:00:00:00
      Time code source                     : Group of pictures header
      Stream size                          : 13.6 MiB (86%)
      Color primaries                      : BT.709
      Transfer characteristics             : BT.709
      Matrix coefficients                  : BT.709

       

      I have found similar threads in the forum but some vary in symptoms and some stop suddenly.

       

      Can't seem to find where PE11 is getting its Overall Bitrate value from even though I specified the same bitrate as the source.  Only other difference is the scan type in the original being MBAFF?

       

      Thanks all.

       

      Also sometimes struggle with adding media / moving timeline without Premiere Elements freezing, even though PC is a decent spec - i5 Quad Core, 16GB RAM, SSD, but that's a different topic for another day.

        • 1. Re: Premiere Elements 11 - overall bitrate not as target / maximum
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          What do you plan to do with the file you're outputting?

           

          You can hype all the bitrate you want, but is doesn't really pay to output a hyped up video if it's not optimized for the medium you're displaying it on.

           

          BTW, this isn't broadcast or otherwise copyrighted video, is it? There are certain legal ramifications -- and YouTube might end up censoring it completely.

           

          Also, if your video is 1920x1080 50p, why aren't you using the project settings for PAL/AVCHD/AVCHD 1080p50?

          • 2. Re: Premiere Elements 11 - overall bitrate not as target / maximum
            A.T. Romano Level 7

            Viewfinder98

             

            You wrote

            Also sometimes struggle with adding media / moving timeline without Premiere Elements freezing, even though PC is a decent spec - i5 Quad Core, 16GB RAM, SSD, but that's a different topic for another day.

            Just what media are you dealing with when this happens, that .ts file with the scan type of MBAFF and scan order Top Field First. Apparently the footage has been interlaced, but from what I have read some of it may be progressive?

            http://www.afterdawn.com/glossary/term.cfm/macroblock-adaptive_frame-field_coding

            The program's problems in interpreting progressive and interlated components may be a the core of this?

             

            Back to the Bitrate...

            How much have you experimented with the Target and Maximum bitrate?

             

            More later.

             

            ATR

            • 3. Re: Premiere Elements 11 - overall bitrate not as target / maximum
              A.T. Romano Level 7

              SG

               

              Where are you seeing that any of this video is @ 50 progressive frames per second?

               

              ATR

              • 4. Re: Premiere Elements 11 - overall bitrate not as target / maximum
                A.T. Romano Level 7

                Viewfinder98

                 

                Please check out the following thread here from a few months ago, regarding a user's search for the wanted bitrate for the export.

                http://forums.adobe.com/message/5353408#5353408

                 

                More later.

                 

                ATR

                • 5. Re: Premiere Elements 11 - overall bitrate not as target / maximum
                  Viewfinder98 Level 1

                  Thanks Steve / ATR

                   

                  @Steve - Thanks, I won't be uploading or sharing them, merely just archiving old DVB recordings, but wanting to reduce filesize by cutting out adverts and overruns etc, plus I find more compatibility having them as an Mpg file rather than a ts file.

                  @ATR - As mentioned, I did spot that thread you posted but it seemed to stop without further updates and I have even tried to message that member to see if problem had been resolved or not.  It did mention that he tried higher bitrate settings, which I had tried to do, namely using higher target and maximum bitrates of 8Mbps instead of the original 5Mbps but even at a higher than source bitrate, it was still strangely blocky.

                   

                  The only time I could match the quality of the source was to use the default Premiere Elements HDTV 1080p 25 profile which uses 18Mbps - resulting in a baffling much larger file for the same quality as the original but much smaller ts file.

                   

                  After reading the MBAFF spec, I have even tried experimenting by recoding using 1080i and 1080p but both still either blocky at similar bitrates or if I use default profile - much larger files.

                   

                  Only last resort is to just archive the ts files along with the adverts and overruns but seems to defeat the whole purpose of buying Premiere Elements.