29 Replies Latest reply on Aug 21, 2016 8:40 AM by softananda

    Problems re-linking DPX sequences

    Filmmaker78 Level 1

      I have a project that I am trying to open up. The DPX sequences in them became disconnected because they were transferred to a different hard drive. Now when I relink them, in the timeline every pace there was a cut/edit, the DPX sequence starts at the beginning of the clip again. I noticed this issue on CS6 as well. How do you relink DPX sequences in a project and have them work in a timeline where they've already had edits made?

        • 1. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
          Sausagehead5 Level 1

          I've been fighting this issue daily through CS5 & CS6, apparently it has been resolved in CC.

           

          I have litterally been replacing clips by manually, one at a time in the timeline.

           

          at the bottom of this thread is the CC solution.

           

          http://forums.adobe.com/message/5516797#5516797

          • 2. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
            Filmmaker78 Level 1

            Thanks, but I'm in CC and it isn't working. The issue sounds like exactly what you were dealing with in CS5 and CS6. When you re-link or replace a DPX sequence, in the timeline where you've been editing that DPX sequence, every where there's a cut, it starts the sequence over at the beginning.

            • 3. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
              Sausagehead5 Level 1

              It appears that the Link and Locate feature in Premiere Pro CC has fixed the issue. I just did a test and was successful in moving and relinking DPX files. Relinking any files, much less DPX files, was rather painful prior to CC.

               

              So, this solution dosen't really work in CC?  Crap, thanks Adobe.

               

              This was presented as a solution by an Adobe staff member.

              • 4. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                Filmmaker78 Level 1

                It relinks the DPX sequence just fine over in the bin. But if you've already been editing it, in the timeline everywhere that there's a cut, it starts back at the beginning of the DPX sequence. Very strange.

                • 5. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                  Sausagehead5 Level 1

                  Yup, I'm guessing it's been like this for a long, long time. I've posted several times about.

                   

                  As you can see no one from Adobe is responding to the thread......silence speaks louder than words..They know it's broken....

                  • 6. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                    Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                    Sausagehead5 wrote:

                     

                    As you can see no one from Adobe is responding to the thread......silence speaks louder than words..They know it's broken....

                     

                    Hi Sausagehead5,

                    Just a reminder that this is a user to user forum, so don't expect Adobe staff to answer posts. Though we do participate when we can, it's users that provide the bulk of the answers here.

                     

                    If you want to open a support case, where you do work with Adobe staff to solve your problem, go here: http://helpx.adobe.com/contact.html

                     

                    Image sequences should relink as clips do in Premiere Pro CC. Sorry that isn't working for you. I tried it myself and had no issues in Premiere Pro CC (7.0.1).

                     

                    Please file a bug report so we can take a closer look at your specific issue: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

                     

                    Thanks!

                    Kevin

                    • 7. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                      Sausagehead5 Level 1

                      You are relinking them in the Bin......and everything has the proper In/out points on the clips in the timeline???

                       

                       

                       

                      It relinks the DPX sequence just fine over in the bin. But if you've already been editing it, in the timeline everywhere that there's a cut, it starts back at the beginning of the DPX sequence. Very strange.

                      • 8. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                        Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                        Sausagehead5 wrote:

                         

                        You are relinking them in the Bin......and everything has the proper In/out points on the clips in the timeline???

                         

                        It relinks the DPX sequence just fine over in the bin. But if you've already been editing it, in the timeline everywhere that there's a cut, it starts back at the beginning of the DPX sequence. Very strange.

                         

                        Hi Sausagehead5,

                        Yes, in/outs are correct in the Timeline. Verified by BITC. More info on importing image sequences here: http://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/importing-still-images.html#import_numbered_stil l_image_sequences_as_video_clips

                         

                        Cheers,

                        Kevin

                        • 9. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                          Sausagehead5 Level 1

                          My issue is not importing...it's relinking to DPX.

                           

                          They cut the offline with quicktimes....then I get DPX sequences and an EDL to do the online.

                          • 10. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                            Sausagehead5 Level 1

                            I would love to see Premiere get conform capabilities like Smoke or Hiero.

                            • 11. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                              Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                              Sausagehead5 wrote:

                               

                              My issue is not importing...it's relinking to DPX.

                               

                              They cut the offline with quicktimes....then I get DPX sequences and an EDL to do the online.

                               

                              Hi Sausagehead5,

                              Again, I had no trouble relinking. I would make sure you're updated to Premiere Pro CC (7.0.1). I provided the link just for reference. You must import via the File menu, not the Media Browser to get things running smoothly.

                               

                              Thanks,

                              Kevin

                              • 12. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                                Sausagehead5 Level 1

                                Import the EDL through the file menu??

                                • 13. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                                  Sausagehead5 Level 1

                                  When I Import the EDL it creates media offline clips in the bin....I then right click to relink them to the DPX instead of the lo rez quicktimes.

                                  • 14. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                                    Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                    Sausagehead5 wrote:

                                     

                                    My issue is not importing...it's relinking to DPX.

                                     

                                    They cut the offline with quicktimes....then I get DPX sequences and an EDL to do the online.

                                     

                                    Hi Sausagehead5,

                                    The only difference between your workflow and mine is that you derived your sequences from an EDL. I just unlinked clips in an existing sequence, then relinked. I think that's where the workflow breaks,

                                     

                                    Thanks,
                                    Kevin

                                    • 15. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                                      Sausagehead5 Level 1

                                      If thats what your doing it's definatly not the same as the offline>online workflow.

                                       

                                      Yes, I can go into a seq with media and make clips offline, then bring them online again, no issue.

                                       

                                      It's the tradional Offline with low rez QT > color correction in Resolve(or whatever) > then an EDL or XML along with DPX sequences are loaded into Premiere > clips with media offline are created in the bin upon EDL/XML import > then I need to properly relink the media offline clips to the new DPX seq......and that is where Premiere fails.

                                      • 16. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                                        Sausagehead5 Level 1

                                        So it still dosen't work in CC???

                                        • 17. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                                          Sausagehead5 Level 1

                                          This is a rudimentary function that other edit sysytems have been able to do for many years.

                                          • 18. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                                            Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                            Sausagehead5 wrote:

                                             

                                            If thats what your doing it's definatly not the same as the offline>online workflow.

                                             

                                            Yes, I can go into a seq with media and make clips offline, then bring them online again, no issue.

                                             

                                            It's the tradional Offline with low rez QT > color correction in Resolve(or whatever) > then an EDL or XML along with DPX sequences are loaded into Premiere > clips with media offline are created in the bin upon EDL/XML import > then I need to properly relink the media offline clips to the new DPX seq......and that is where Premiere fails.

                                             

                                            Sausagehead5,

                                            Thanks for bringing this issue to my attention. My tests show the same as your findings, I can't get the EDL to relink properly in Premiere Pro CC. I'm working with the team to see if there is some flaw in my testing, or that this is indeed still a bug.

                                             

                                            If you have not filed a bug yet, please do: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

                                             

                                            Thanks,
                                            Kevin

                                            • 19. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                                              Sausagehead5 Level 1

                                              Thank you for getting this issue to the right pepole!!!!

                                              • 20. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                                                apelike_22 Level 1

                                                Hi there,

                                                 

                                                I've been dealing with Premiere and DPX sequences for a couple years now.  It appears one of the main problems is that Premiere does not correctly read DPX header information, meaning that the reel name and possibly other important data in each frame is not being correctly read in by the application.  I'm not sure but I think it's a lack of correspondence between the names of fields in the DPX header and the metadata fields in Premiere. 

                                                 

                                                You can view DPX header information directly with the DPX Header Editor at Pomfort.com (they have a free trial), edit it, and see if the changes ripple across to Premiere.  I have found that they don't.  The reel name is especially problematic. 

                                                 

                                                I've also posted a few times about DPX conform issues in Premiere.  Hopefully there might be something in there of some interest.  This goes back to previous versions, so not all the info in here is up to date, but the DPX linking issue is still current:

                                                 

                                                http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/3/932651

                                                 

                                                Sausagehead5, what I'm doing at the moment, since most of the files I work with start out as Alexa ProRes 4444 out of the camera, is have my grading facility render out ProRes4444 quicktimes (scoped against DPX of the same files and found no dissimilarities), and relink using the reLink reTooled app over at reTooled.net ($40).

                                                 

                                                However, to be fair, relinking to DPX sequences is not a feature that any other NLE has outside of Smoke, Flame and Hiero, none of which would be considered an NLE as their primary function.  The mere fact that Premiere can read in and play back DPX sequences - frame accurate relinking or not - without a render is unique when compared to FCP and Avid. 

                                                 

                                                Interestingly, the AE script "Immigration" (available with free trail at aescripts.com), which was used in post on Social Network for relinking DPX sequences to offline quicktime files for finishing, has this same issue.  It will correctly bring in and relink DPX sequences when its used correctly, however it always matches the first frame of the DPX sequence to the first frame of the clip in the timeline, no matter what. 

                                                 

                                                It would really be great to see this resolved.  XML is probably not going to help, btw, because it does not work well with image sequences.  If you try to output an XML from a sequence consisting of DPX clips, if you brought that XML back in, it would only read the first frame of the edit and simply hold on it for the correct duration of the original clip.  This pertains to XML being developed by Apple for FCP, which could not read image sequences, as discussed here:

                                                 

                                                http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/365/202

                                                 

                                                Cheers!

                                                 

                                                Jon

                                                • 21. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                                                  Sausagehead5 Level 1

                                                  I've started using NUKE and we'll probably end up with Hiero as well around NAB. more suited for the kind of conform and cleanup I need to do.

                                                  • 22. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                                                    apelike_22 Level 1

                                                    That's great!

                                                     

                                                    I use Nuke for all my cleanup and VFX work and really love it.  Hiero is excellent and progressing very quickly, but I wish the price would come down.  At $5k it's pretty crazy for what it does.  It would be less expensive to use Smoke for conforming and just export shots you need worked on in Nuke.  There are a few facilities I've worked at that have done this on some big national commercials.  Also, you'll find, if you haven't already, that Hiero is not yet able to provide realtime playback to client monitors in a reliable way.  It has to cache everything as it plays back (it won't save the cache from a previous playback), and I've found it starts dropping frames and giving less than 24 fps playback after a few seconds.  You could outfit your rig with an IOFX card and a Quadro K6000 to help things out, and maybe that would help, but that coupled with Hiero is a nearly $10k expenditure, which is $2k more than the cost of NukeX, and worth 3 Smoke for Mac seats.  It would be really difficult to justify going this route over a $3k Smoke for Mac seat (which itself would require a $2-3k AJA IO system to get video out for clients).

                                                     

                                                    All that said, I feel like we're tantalizingly close to a solution in Premiere which would enable you to do your DPX conforming, playback, editorial and layback in Premiere and your compositing in whatever package you want.  I think the answer is in SpeedGrade.

                                                     

                                                    SpeedGrade has a really nice conform system.  It works about as well as Smoke, and for any shots it can't figure out you can easily locate them manually on SpeedGrade's incredibly fast and nice Desktop and simply drag and drop them into your timeline. 

                                                     

                                                    The problem is there's currently no way of getting that timeline into Premiere quickly.  The best you can do is export an EDL out of Speedgrade.  The EDL will replace your image sequence frame numbers with a "#", which makes the file-name based relinking in Premiere useless.  So you have to locate the DPX sequence clips manually.  However, once that's done, your conform is in Premiere and I've found it to be accurate. 

                                                     

                                                    Ideally, and I've submitted a couple feature requests about this (the latest one was this AM), you could direct link a sequence from Premiere to SpeedGrade and instead of using the Direct Link for color, you could relink your media in there using SpeedGrade's lovely conform tools.  Parallel to this, it would also solve the conform issue if you could simply import a SpeedGrade IRCP timeline into Premiere.  Since Adobe has already completed 50% of the journey, it seems like - and this is not coming from a programmer - it should be a hop skip and a jump to go the remaining 50%.

                                                     

                                                    I know I've probably overstayed my welcome here, but SpeedGrade wouldn't be necessary at all in the conform pipeline if the relinking in Premiere could work based on timecode and partial clip names only.  What happens now is that it needs a clip name and a reel name.  I've found most of the third party vendors I work with - specifically either The Mill, Company 3 or MPC - will not render their DPXs out with reel names.  Timecode will be there, and the original clip name will be there along with some crazy suffix and the frame number.  But if the relink workflow in Premiere have selectable features to look ONLY for a user specified combination of partial clip name, timecode and partial reel name, everything would be hunky dory.  Feature request!

                                                     

                                                    In the meantime, give at least some consideration to working with ProRes 4444 for your conforms and using reLink reTooled.  I conformed all of the T-Mobile spots featuring Bill Hader that have been airing recently using this method.  I did all the cleanup work and screen comps in Nuke by dynamic linking elements into AE, rendering DPXs out of there, then reading those clips into Nuke before rendering out and stacking render versions into Premiere.  It was lickity split.

                                                     

                                                    Check out retooled.net for info on reLink.  It worked flawlessly and is an excellent option while we wait for these conform features.

                                                     

                                                    Have a great one!

                                                     

                                                    Jon

                                                    • 23. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                                                      Sausagehead5 Level 1

                                                      Some days I do work with ProRez4444, if it was shot on Alexa,   If shot on Red I usually get 10bit DPX.

                                                       

                                                      I have a demo of Hiero, and I get rock solid playback through my Kona 3G to the broadcast monitors.

                                                       

                                                      Look for Hiero and NUKE to possibly merge into one product in the coming year.

                                                       

                                                      10 years ago the company I work for was spending 100K to put a finish system together...so a system at 30K dosen't scare them off.

                                                       

                                                      The Mill, Company 3 or MPC are companies we use on a regular basis for graphics and effects.

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      eLink reTooled is something I will certaily take a look at.

                                                      • 24. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                                                        apelike_22 Level 1

                                                        Very good to know about your good fortunes with Hiero playback.  I've not had that experience and found a lot of users experiencing the same on the Foundry forums.  I've seen that demo of Nuke working within Hiero (and modo working within Nuke within Hiero, which is bananas).  Can't wait for it.  If it's stable in the room with clients it'll change the game.

                                                         

                                                        Amazing how fast all of this stuff is progressing.  Hard to keep up sometimes.

                                                        • 25. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                                                          Sausagehead5 Level 1

                                                          It does help to that I have Kona3G, Quadro4000, and 48 gig ram for playback.

                                                          • 26. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                                                            apelike_22 Level 1

                                                            Indeed!  The only difference between our systems is the Kona.  Our owner loves Blackmagic.  I'm hoping for a Kona 3 as an end of year upgrade.  That said, I've read of people with Kona 3 cards, plenty of RAM and caching to a Fusion IO FX card still having issues.  Can't verify from experience but just search "Hiero Playback Issues" on the foundry forums and you'll see a lot of discussion about it.  It's just super young software I think.  It'll be incredible with time.

                                                             

                                                            One other aspect of it relative to Smoke and Premiere is that it doesn't give you deck control.   Not a huge issue since you'd only need to export a DPX of your locked picture out to an app that can do tape layback to handle that stuff.  It'll be interesting to see if they add that functionality, along with surround sound output and mapping when Nuke is formally integrated into it.

                                                            • 27. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                                                              Sausagehead5 Level 1

                                                              I worked on Avid DS for 9 years, it combined timeline editing and node based compositing, too bad Avid let it rot on the vine just a few years after they bought it. I'm hoping to see Foundry replace that style of workflow, and make it much more than the Avid product could have ever been.

                                                              • 28. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                                                                softananda Level 1

                                                                Almost three years have elapsed since this thread was created and the problem is still there in the new Premiere CC 2015.3 version:

                                                                 

                                                                - either the DPX file opens a single frame (not as a sequence), or

                                                                - if one replaces the DPX file, the DPX sequence does not respect the timeline cuts, but starts from the first frame with every clip or cut.

                                                                 

                                                                It is a MAJOR problem. Has anyone found a workaround?

                                                                • 29. Re: Problems re-linking DPX sequences
                                                                  softananda Level 1

                                                                  I must modify my previous comment. In my original project, the DPX is working fine. I had a copy of this project in another location, and for some reason in this second project the DPX was being interpreted as a single frame, not as a sequence. Fortunately, as I said, the original project is fine. My apologies if I caused any confusion.