12 Replies Latest reply: Oct 22, 2013 2:54 AM by Robert Eckerlin

V12 Panorama: Wrong time - Please make it easy to use the Organizer

Robert Eckerlin Oct 20, 2013 2:17 AM

When performing with V12 my first Panorama Merge, the resulting panorama Merge got the wrong time assigned (in V8, I did not encounter that problem). With V12, the two source jpeg photo files that were merged into the panorama have a timestamp of 4/5/2013 12:59. However the resulting panorama jpeg file has a timestamp of 4/5/2013 10:59. This result in one additional manual operation, that i must perform after completion of the Panorama Merge: I must correct the time.

I am not sure how that time difference of two hours happened. Is it because I am in Switzerland, where we have still the Summer time and are ahead by two hours from Greenwhich Mean Time?

----

I have a kind request for the next Version of PSE: avoid to make it difficult and painfull to use the PSE Organizer in conjunction with Photomerge Panorama. Today, without technical reason/merit, use of the PSE Organizer in conjunction with Photomerge Panorama is extremely painful and inefficient. For each result of a Panorama Merge, I have to do all of the following and that is very inefficient (especially with large catalogs) and painfull:

I must find within the Organizer bin the result of the Photomerge (to do that, I typically need to switch the Photo Bin into Import Batch sequence...and then later on switch back to a more reasonable sequence)
I must verify and then correct manually the time of the resulting photomerge file
I must determine which tags were assigned to the individual component/source files, navigate within my large Tag structure to find the tags, and then assign manually to the photomerge result the Tags of the source photos
I must deternmine in which Album(s) the individual component/source files were included, navigate within my large Album hierarchical structure to find the Albums and then include manually the photomerge result into the same Album(s) as the source photo. Then I have to move the photomderge result to the right location within Album Sequence.
I must make sure, that the resulting jpeg file is stored in the same folder as the source photos.

All that is a real horror. I am sure, that all opf us (both from Adobe and from the PSE fan community) want to make it easy to use the Organizer.

Ideally, I would like to have (one? or multiple distinct/selective?) sticky options (in the Photomerge dialog pannel? in Preferences? at another location?) that would do all the above automatically for me.

Of course, I understand, that other PSE users will sometimes not like (as I also sometimes do not like) to have the same tags/Albums associations for the resulting photofile as for the compoenent/source files. But It is so much easier to remove selectively one or more Tag/Album association from a photo then to search a large Tag/Album Hierarchy for the correct Tags/Albums and then associate these Tags/Albums with the Photomerge Result.

1. Re: V12 Panorama: Wrong time - Please make it easy to use the Organizer

MichelBParis Oct 20, 2013 6:45 AM (in response to Robert Eckerlin)

Robert,
We have here separate problems which add up when doing a panorama photomerge.
1 - the file data change after an edit : I never get this, although I am in the same time zone than you are. It has been brought up many times and I don't know if the reason has been found as well as a cure. I believe it's more often on macs...
2 - The problem of version sets not being included in the catalog, as mentionned in your other thread. I'll assume the workaround to kill the analyzer process in the task manager works for you : it does for me.
3 - The whole 'project' about merging several pictures into one panorama. Since the Organizer provides no way to save a 'project' with source files and optional choices such as the tags and the way the sources and the result should be grouped, you'll have to find your own way.

My suggestion :
You'll have to choose how to keep source and result together. You can use albums, tags, captions or stacks for that purpose. Albums ? no. Tags, yes. Captions ? that may work as well, and I would use them additionnally to tags. Stacks ? Yes, because their purpose is to make visual browsing and selecting quicker.

1 - Select your source files, give them a common tag and a common caption (my tip would be to select the name of one of the souces plus ' panorama' : very easy to select your files via the very powerful text search). Create a stack.
2 - select one of the sources (the one with the filename used above) and edit it without any change in the editor and save as a version set in PSD format with the final filename you want for the resulting panorama. Close it. It will be in the same folder, the same stack and it will inherit all the tags of the source.
3 - Select your sources and do the photomerge. Save the results overwriting the PSD created above.
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
2. Re: V12 Panorama: Wrong time - Please make it easy to use the Organizer

Robert Eckerlin Oct 20, 2013 11:29 AM (in response to MichelBParis)

MichelBParis schrieb:

My suggestion :
...

1 - Select your source files, give them a common tag and a common caption (my tip would be to select the name of one of the souces plus ' panorama' : very easy to select your files via the very powerful text search). Create a stack.
2 - select one of the sources (the one with the filename used above) and edit it without any change in the editor and save as a version set in PSD format with the final filename you want for the resulting panorama. Close it. It will be in the same folder, the same stack and it will inherit all the tags of the source.
3 - Select your sources and do the photomerge. Save the results overwriting the PSD created above.
Michel, I have the impression that your suggestion is great; and I wanted to test it.

But while setting up my test, when going through the above step 2, I detected that the problem of the "wrong time" is not specific to Panorama Merge. Instead, the problem is much more severe: saving the result of the edit which you describe above in Step 2 resulted in a wrong timestamp (= the 2 hour shift).

I do not understand yet in which circumstances, the edit results in a wrong timestamp and in which other circumstances the Timestamp is set correctly. I will need to investigate. And then, I will follow your suggestion and report.

Thanks again for your very interesting suggestion.
Robert
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
3. Re: V12 Panorama: Wrong time - Please make it easy to use the Organizer

Robert Eckerlin Oct 20, 2013 11:56 AM (in response to MichelBParis)

Michel

Your "suggestion" is really great!!!

I followed it (with a minor adaptation, in order to fullfill my specific needs) and it worked!

The minor adaptation: after going through step 2, I removed the result of the edit from its Versionset (perhaps, this might not even be necessary if in step 2 I do not save the result of the edit into a versionset - I will need to test again).

When following your suggestion, the result of the Panorama Merge inherits (as I wished and as you described) all tags of one of the sources.... and even gets included (as i wished) into the same Albums as one of its source....and within the Album sequence is located (as I wished) adjacently to one of its source.

A really great suggestion! A suggestion that will save me a lot work and time. Thank you very much for it.

---
Now, what will be important for me is
- first to understand in which circumstances I get hit after an Edit by the two hour shift.
- and then to get a fix from PS deveropment
I can not live with that problem.

Michel, do you know, whether for important problems, Adobe delivers fixes without awaiting the next version of PSE?
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
4. Re: V12 Panorama: Wrong time - Please make it easy to use the Organizer

Robert Eckerlin Oct 20, 2013 12:33 PM (in response to Robert Eckerlin)

Robert Eckerlin schrieb:
......

Now, what will be important for me is
- first to understand in which circumstances I get hit after an Edit by the two hour shift.
- and then to get a fix from PS deveropment
I can not live with that problem.
What I know about the Photo that results after an Edit in the the two hour shift in the edited versions of that photo:
It was a photo shot in California and I had not changed in the camera the time from Central European Time to "California Time". Instead it is later on, in the PSE Organizer that I corrected the time of my California Photos.

For these Photos, I have encountered the two hour time shift, only with PSE V12. With PSE V8, I had no such problems.

I will need to check, if I encounter this kind of problems for all my California Photos.... and will verify that I do not encouter it for my photos shot in Switzerland (which have not be subjected to an eventual time-correction within the Orgsnizer).
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
5. Re: V12 Panorama: Wrong time - Please make it easy to use the Organizer

MichelBParis Oct 20, 2013 1:22 PM (in response to Robert Eckerlin)

Robert Eckerlin wrote:
Michel, do you know, whether for important problems, Adobe delivers fixes without awaiting the next version of PSE?
From my experience, that depends on what is needed to update : for instance, fixes for bugs in the downloader modules have been fixed. But otherwise, generally, you have to wait for the next release . For instance, the lack of alphanumerical sort in PSE11 had to wait for PSE12.
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
6. Re: V12 Panorama: Wrong time - Please make it easy to use the Organizer

Robert Eckerlin Oct 21, 2013 1:10 AM (in response to MichelBParis)

Michel, Thank You for your answer.

Hopefully, Asobe development will make a distinction between:
- "missing functionality" (the alphanumeric sort which wes mising in V11), that requires new/additional code
- and "bugs" that are important (because in this case, the bug results in a Timestamp related dis-organization within the PSE Catalog) and can hopefully be fixed relatively easely.

Since the "date problem" that I had encountered orginally while performing a Panorama Merge is a general problem that is not related to Panorama Merge: for the date problem, I will open another Thread.

---
To come back to your excellent "suggestion" related to Photomerge Panorama: it is my impression that based on your idea/suggestion, the problem could be relatively easely fixed in V13.

To simplify a little bit: when performing a Panorama Merge, the Editor could record somewhere internally, the Identification (e.g. Filename and Foldername) of the Photos that are used as input for the Merge. And when later on, the PSE user performs a "Save As" or a "Close" of the resulting panorama, the Editor could offer to the user the option to save the Panorama File within a Versionset.
- in the simplest implementation: the Editor would choose without asking any question with which one of the Input Files the result should be saved into a Versionset
- in a little bit more more luxurious implementation: The Editor could ask the PSE user with wich ones of the Input Files the result should be saved into a Versionset

The PSE user, could (if he wish) later on remove the Panorama Merge from the Versionset. That Is easy and fast to do.
-------

Of course, thanks to Michel, I have now an excellent Workaround. Myself do therefore not need an "official" solution in V13. But I nevertheless believe that a lot of other PSE users will not be aware of the suggestion of Michel and will therefore waste a lot of time for a proper "organizazion" of their Photomerge Panorama. It would be great, if PSE would complement the outstanding Photomerge Panorama support of the Editor with a good and simple-to-use/simple-to-understand support of the Panorams within the Organizer
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
7. Re: V12 Panorama: Wrong time - Please make it easy to use the Organizer

MichelBParis Oct 21, 2013 2:03 AM (in response to Robert Eckerlin)

Robert Eckerlin wrote:

---
To come back to your excellent "suggestion" related to Photomerge Panorama: it is my impression that based on your idea/suggestion, the problem could be relatively easely fixed in V13.

To simplify a little bit: when performing a Panorama Merge, the Editor could record somewhere internally, the Identification (e.g. Filename and Foldername) of the Photos that are used as input for the Merge. And when later on, the PSE user performs a "Save As" or a "Close" of the resulting panorama, the Editor could offer to the user the option to save the Panorama File within a Versionset.
- in the simplest implementation: the Editor would choose without asking any question with which one of the Input Files the result should be saved into a Versionset
- in a little bit more more luxurious implementation: The Editor could ask the PSE user with wich ones of the Input Files the result should be saved into a Versionset

The PSE user, could (if he wish) later on remove the Panorama Merge from the Versionset. That Is easy and fast to do.
In my opinion, the best solution with the photomerge panorama tool would be to consider it as another type of 'creation', just like photobook or a slideshow. You create a 'project', possibly with more help and guidance for beginners, recording all the source files, destination and your different options. Those data should be saved in a 'project' format. I think it's only possible to save the output panorama file as a version set of an existing source, not the reverse, but that would be ok for me. More changes required, but anyway, panoramas are an important feature for the typical Elements users, and they require enhancements as well as a 64 bits version.
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
8. Re: V12 Panorama: Wrong time - Please make it easy to use the Organizer

nealeh Oct 21, 2013 10:31 AM (in response to Robert Eckerlin)

Note that this is principally a user-to-user forum. The official site for bug reports and feature requests is at http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family, so you might want to post your comments and suggestions there as well.

Cheers,
--
Neale
Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
9. Re: V12 Panorama: Wrong time - Please make it easy to use the Organizer

Robert Eckerlin Oct 21, 2013 11:58 AM (in response to nealeh)
Hello Neal

Thank You very much for Your Feedback. I am not sure, how to interpret your Feedback:
is it, as you write, a suggestion to post "as well" on the Website that You indicated?
or is it a kindly formulated reproach, that I should not have posted this matter on this user-to-user forum?

Thank You very much in advance for your answer.

If its the second case:
I should describe that for me it is a difficult trade-off.
If I would not have posted on this Website, I would probably not have gotten the outstanding Feedback/Suggestion of Michel which helped me tremendously.
Also: I asked by email PSE developers for directions on that matter (or at least, on a similar matter). But until now, I have not gotten any feedback.
I would like to avoid, to trepass some guidelines (that I am not yet aware of) ...and as a result get locked-out from use of this user-to-user forum, which is useful for me for my use of PSE V12 .
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
10. Re: V12 Panorama: Wrong time - Please make it easy to use the Organizer

nealeh Oct 21, 2013 4:07 PM (in response to Robert Eckerlin)

No reproach. You raised a point that concerns you but it is unlikely that anyone from Adobe will read or act on it as a result of you posting here - you are sharing it with other users.

If you go to Adobe - Feature Request / Bug Report and select 'Photoshop Elements' it gives you the following narrative and you'll see it takes you to the link I posted:
We're interested in what changes you would like see in our products. Do you have an idea for a feature that would help your workflow? Is there a small change that could be made to make your life a little easier? Let us know!
Share an Idea, Ask a Question or Report a Problem and get feedback from the Photoshop Elements Development Team and other passionate users on the Photoshop Family product Feedback Site on Photoshop.com

Especially note the reference to 'feedback from the Photoshop Elements Development Team' - which you will not see in any reference to this community forum.

So yes - I meant 'as well'.

Cheers,
--
Neale
Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
11. Re: V12 Panorama: Wrong time - Please make it easy to use the Organizer

MichelBParis Oct 21, 2013 11:50 PM (in response to nealeh)

Each forum has its own value.
One example:

There seems to be a bug in the 'save to version set' feature for pictures in converted catalogs.
The user to user forum enabled methodical testing and discussion from several members.
Even if there has been no official answer from Adobe employees (as is usual when a bug is not yet acknowledged), I suspect that discussion has been read and caught by Adobe.
To be sure it will be read, I just issued a bug report in the feedback forum:
http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/save_in_version_set_not_working_in_p se12?rfm=1

Adobe states that all those feedbacks are read, but they don't necessary post an answer. However, if several users add their votes, that makes an answer more likely in that forum.

The present bug seems easy to reproduce and it makes using the organizer very dangerous if you are not aware of the problem. I am quite sure Adobe will check that to find the root of the problem and hopefully provide a solution.
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
12. Re: V12 Panorama: Wrong time - Please make it easy to use the Organizer

Robert Eckerlin Oct 22, 2013 2:54 AM (in response to MichelBParis)

A sincere "Thank You", both to Neale and to Michel, for helping me to better understand.

In the next couple of days, I will create Posts on these 2 subjects (= " make it simpler to handle Panorama Merge in the Organizer" and "Wrong Time") in the the "Feedback" Website
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions