23 Replies Latest reply on Oct 25, 2013 4:53 PM by the_wine_snob

    Poor DVD-quality in PE11

    Miek1971

      Hi,

       

      I've spent hours on a home-movie, editing in PE11.

      The movie is just shy of 1 hour long, filmed in 25p.

      When I export for Apple TV the quality is beautiful, but exporting to a DVD gives lousy quality. Even the dvd-menu is blurry and looks awful, even though I used one of the PE11 pre-defined menusets.

       

      Now, I can understand some loss of quality since a DVD is not HD-quality, but this is really bad. Even the old analogue films my boyfriend used to make years ago look better.

      Since the Apple TV-output is perfectly fine, I'm assuming something goes wrong when exporting for DVD. But I cannot find what goes wrong, please help!

       

      Thanks

      Annemieke

        • 1. Re: Poor DVD-quality in PE11
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          A lot depends on what you started with in the first place.

           

          What model of camcorder is your original video coming from and what format and resolution is it?

           

          What are the project settings, as listed under the Edit menu?

           

          Is your "quality" issue something other than resolution? Is the color shifting? Are you seeing combing?

           

          Are you judging this quality by playing this disc on your TV (as opposed to playing it on your computer)?

           

          You're shooting in 25p? Are you in the PAL TV format?

          • 2. Re: Poor DVD-quality in PE11
            Miek1971 Level 1

            Hi Steve,

             

            My original video was shot with a Sony HDR CX-730, and I shot in 25p, since I didn't know if Premiere Elements could handle 50p.

            I have not changed the settings, so I let PE choose the optimal settings when importing the video, settings are as follows:

            Editing mode: HD1080i

            Time base: 25 fps

            Frame size: 1920-1080

            Pixel Aspect ratio: Square Pixels (1.0)

            Fields: Upper fields first

            Display format: 25 fps timecode

             

            The poor quality is really just the blurry video, no color shifting or combing. However the DVD-menu doesn't work well either, I can see which of the scenes highlighted in de submenu, but not others, and I cannot see the home-button highlighted.

             

            I have tried the disc in my computer, but it's the same bad quality.

            I'm indeed in the PAL TV-region (Netherlands).

             

            Thanks for your help!

            • 3. Re: Poor DVD-quality in PE11
              Miek1971 Level 1

              Oh, and I'm editing on an iMac.

              • 4. Re: Poor DVD-quality in PE11
                Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                Did you use Premiere Elements' Add Media/From Flip and Camera tool to get the video from your camcorder to your computer?

                 

                When you are in Expert view, do you see a yellow line above the video clips on your timeline?

                 

                Your DVD will definitely not be as clear and as sharp as your Apple TV or original video because it has less than 25% the resolution. That's the nature of DVDs. But, if you look at your DVD video at its actual size (NOT full screen on your computer) it should look very good.

                 

                I discuss the nature of DVD resolution in greater detail in this article.

                http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1187937?tstart=0

                • 5. Re: Poor DVD-quality in PE11
                  Miek1971 Level 1

                  Yes, I used the Add Media in Elements to import hte video to my computer.

                  In expert view, I see some yellow lines, some green and some clips without a line. I was under the impression that exporting my movie to DVD would automatically render the entire project. Is that not correct?

                   

                  Looking at your article on DVD resolution makes me think that I spent a lot of money on an expensive HD-camera that will never produce normal output on DVD, is that correct?

                  What I cannot understand however, is that the standard DVD-menus that come with the programm are also very bad on DVD.

                   

                  Is the only alternative to produce a reasonable disc to buy a blu-ray burner?

                  • 6. Re: Poor DVD-quality in PE11
                    A.T. Romano Level 7

                    Miek1971

                     

                    Please define further the properties of your source media, that is, are you shooting 1920 x 1080 @ 25 progressive frames per second?

                     

                    For now I will assume that your setup is for a PAL system and that you have 1080p25 as 1920 x 1080 @ 25 progressive frames per second and that your file is saved to a computer hard drive location.

                     

                    Open a new project.

                    Go to File Menu/New/Project

                    In the New Project dialog, set the project preset for

                    PAL

                    DSLR

                    1080p

                    DSLR 1080p25

                    and, before exiting the New Project dialog, put a check mark next to "Force Selected Project Setting on this Project".

                     

                    Then back in the Premiere Elements workspace, import your 1080p25, using Add Media/Files and Folders/Project Assets from where you drag the video to the Expert workspace Timeline.

                     

                    Export Publish+Share/Disc/DVD disc with the PAL_Widescreen Dolby DVD preset.

                     

                    What does that look like and sound like?

                     

                    If you allow Premiere Elements to set the project preset for you automatically, always verify what it is selecting. Sometimes it is OK, sometimes not.

                     

                    We will be watching for your results.

                     

                    Thanks.

                     

                    ATR

                    • 7. Re: Poor DVD-quality in PE11
                      Miek1971 Level 1

                      Does this mean I have to start editing my film all over? I've spent weeks editing this project, so starting over is not really an option....

                      • 8. Re: Poor DVD-quality in PE11
                        VDOSurfer Level 3

                        Do you see this problem with Premiere Elements 12? Download a trial version and check burning the same project. Create a copy of this project file and open it in PrE12 trial and then test it out. Saying this because there are a lot of posts saying the DVD quality is poor in PrE11 (only it seems, not in PrE10, not in PrE9). Hoping there was a problem and PrE12 fixes it. I personally do not see it in E12 or in E11, but some folks do.

                         

                        So good luck.

                        • 9. Re: Poor DVD-quality in PE11
                          Miek1971 Level 1

                          I will try with PE12, I'll let you know.

                          • 10. Re: Poor DVD-quality in PE11
                            A.T. Romano Level 7

                            Miek1971

                             

                            I have found that Premiere Elements 11 and 12 give the same results, and the results that I am observing with the best choice of project preset are very good for DVD-VIDEO, AVCHD, and Blu-ray.

                             

                            You do not have to test out my suggestions by recreating the whole project to which you have devoted so much time.

                             

                            Do a mini test run using a small sampling of what you have and take it to DVD-VIDEO with the settings suggested.

                             

                            Looking forward to your results from all the suggestions.

                             

                            Thanks.

                             

                            ATR

                            • 11. Re: Poor DVD-quality in PE11
                              Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                              I don't think the versions will make any difference at all. You should get exactly the same results from version 12 as you do version 11.

                               

                              However, the fact that you are seeing yellow lines above your clips in Expert view indicate that your project settings do not match your video specs, as ATR has discussed above, and that is contributing to your "quality" issues.

                               

                              AVCHD video makes an excellent source for video, including DVDs. But DVDs are a mere 720x576 pixels in size while AVCHD is 1920x1080 pixels in size -- so no DVD can ever be as high a resolution as your original high-definition video file.

                              • 12. Re: Poor DVD-quality in PE11
                                Miek1971 Level 1

                                I tried AVCHD but my Bluray payer doesn't recognise the format unfortunately. I'll try a small sampling with the settings you suggest and let you know what the outcome is.

                                • 13. Re: Poor DVD-quality in PE11
                                  whsprague Level 4

                                  With due respect to the experience of others, my experience is that PrE somehow does not do so well going from AVCHD H.264 footage to DVD.  It may very well make great DVDs from other forms of footage,  but I don't know because I've never had a camera that was not AVCHD.  As I understand it, PrE didn't pretend to support AVCHD until version 11 and 12 seems to use the same "internal engine".

                                   

                                  My experience IS that it makes great Blu-Rays, AVCHD disks and other HD products for computers, tablets, etc.

                                   

                                  Could it be that PrE handling of the highly compressed AVCHD format does not go well when "down rezed" to highly uncompressed DVD?

                                   

                                  I have some commercially produced DVDs with old series on them, including Mash.  It plays beautifully on my HD TV with my Blu-Ray player.  It's old footage on plain DVDs.

                                   

                                  I have AVCHD footage from my own cameras that play beautifully in a variety of ways, but not when burned to a DVD with Premier Elements.

                                   

                                  I know that PrE can output AVCHD to very pleasing, high quality "computer files".  I've done many!  Even after being "munched up" by YouTube or Vimeo, they look great.  Has it been tried to output an AVCHD project from PrE 11 or 12 to a high quality computer file and then use other software to create the DVD? 

                                   

                                  I'm considering testing something like DVD Architect Studio from Sony.  My question is if, as a dedicated DVD creation product, would it make DVDs with better picture quality?  If it has been tried, I don't want to waste time trying it again!  Free trials are available at http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/dvdastudio  Purchase is $40.

                                   

                                  (Note that DVD Architect is not editing software like PrE and would not replace it.)

                                   

                                  Thoughts? 

                                  • 14. Re: Poor DVD-quality in PE11
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    Hello Bill,

                                     

                                    For many years, a lot of users have been less than impressed by first, Premiere's (both Pro and Elements) handling of the MPEG-2 DVD CODEC, and then, the down-rezzing capabilities from HD to DVD.

                                     

                                    With research by Dan Issacs, Jeff Bellune developed this HD to DVD workflow: http://bellunevideo.com/tutdetail.php?tutid=12

                                     

                                    It involves using open-source programs to get the ultimate quality, when down-rezzing.

                                     

                                    As an update to that tutorial, Jeff created this one: http://bellunevideo.com/tutdetail.php?tutid=10

                                     

                                    Note: as Jeff uses PrPro, his tutorials directly reflect that program, but his steps should translate pretty closely to PrE, but one might need to interpolate a bit.

                                     

                                    For doing the MPEG-2 DVD Encoding, outside of Premiere, this article might offer some alternatives: http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/336399-What-is-the-BEST-Mpeg-2-Encoder-Today

                                     

                                    Just some thoughts, and good luck,

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: Poor DVD-quality in PE11
                                      whsprague Level 4

                                      Hello again Mr. Hunt,

                                       

                                      We've not traded thoughts and opinions for awhile!

                                       

                                      I watched the two Jeff Bellune tutorials.  It is certainly challenging to understand his lessons.  Yet it is clear, that A LOT is involved getting from HD to DVD SD!

                                       

                                      Of particular interest is the flow of  (1) down converting the HD to SD, (2) having it in a format that serves a DVD and (3) having that format facilitate the current crop of players and TVs we use to "upscale" again to a facsimile of HD!

                                       

                                      It is also clear (to me atleast) that my hunch of allowing PrE to do it automatically may have some compromises in it. 

                                       

                                      If it were not for a couple of "family history" videos where it I don't know what the dozen or so marginally interested relatives have for players, I would never make a DVD.  I certainly don't shoot SD on purpose.  My gear doesn't let me if I wanted to!

                                       

                                      IMO the solution for users of current Sony and Pansonic AVCHD cameras, a Blu-Ray burner might be the only easy solution if hight quality optical disk output is needed.  I don't know about Canon cameras.  My relatives will be getting fuzzy playing discs with a note offering upgrades to Blu-Ray, watching on Vimeo or a thumb drive if they want better quality!

                                       

                                      On the other hand it might be entertaining to figure out a work around for AVCHD projects!

                                       

                                      Bill S

                                      • 16. Re: Poor DVD-quality in PE11
                                        Miek1971 Level 1

                                        Dear Bill Hunt,

                                         

                                        I started watching the tutorials you mentioned, but the open source software is for windows, I'm on a Mac...

                                        Also, from the beginning of the tutorial I get the impression that PE is not the only software that has issues downscaling from Hd to SD, is that correct?

                                        Does anyone know of a program that is affordable and produces good dvd's? (again, for mac...)

                                         

                                        Thanks!

                                        Annemieke

                                        • 17. Re: Poor DVD-quality in PE11
                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                          Miek1971,

                                           

                                          Unfortunately, I do not know of a source of such programs, for a Mac.

                                          Maybe others can offer some suggestions.

                                           

                                          Sorry, but I am a PC-only person.

                                           

                                          Good luck,

                                           

                                          Hunt

                                          • 18. Re: Poor DVD-quality in PE11
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                            Bill,

                                             

                                            If one is starting with HD material, the obvious "best scenario" would be to author to and produce BD's (Blu-ray Discs), but then, there is the problem of viewers, who do not yet have a BD player.

                                             

                                            The AVCHD Disc is another good choice, but not all BD players can handle those.

                                             

                                            For DVD-Video, I see two possible workflows:

                                             

                                            1. Use PrPro, or PrE, and let those programs down-rez, prior to Transcoding and authoring/burning
                                            2. Use a workflow, similar to what Jeff Bellune demonstrates to get perhaps a bit more quality

                                             

                                            Of course, there are variations to both of those.

                                             

                                            Good luck,

                                             

                                            Hunt

                                            • 19. Re: Poor DVD-quality in PE11
                                              Miek1971 Level 1

                                              I'll go shopping for a Blu-ray burner then.

                                              Thanks to everybody for your help and suggestions!

                                               

                                              Annemieke

                                              • 20. Re: Poor DVD-quality in PE11
                                                whsprague Level 4

                                                .. from the beginning of the tutorial I get the impression that PE is not the only software that has issues downscaling from Hd to SD...

                                                My impression too. 

                                                • 21. Re: Poor DVD-quality in PE11
                                                  whsprague Level 4

                                                  I'll go shopping for a Blu-ray burner then.

                                                   

                                                  I doubt you will be dissappointed.  Good choice.

                                                  • 22. Re: Poor DVD-quality in PE11
                                                    whsprague Level 4

                                                    Bill Hunt wrote:

                                                     

                                                    Bill,

                                                     

                                                    (A.)   If one is starting with HD material, the obvious "best scenario" would be to author to and produce BD's (Blu-ray Discs), but then, there is the problem of viewers, who do not yet have a BD player.

                                                     

                                                    (B.)  The AVCHD Disc is another good choice, but not all BD players can handle those.

                                                     

                                                    (C.)  For DVD-Video, I see two possible workflows:

                                                     

                                                    1. Use PrPro, or PrE, and let those programs down-rez, prior to Transcoding and authoring/burning
                                                    2. Use a workflow, similar to what Jeff Bellune demonstrates to get perhaps a bit more quality

                                                     

                                                    (D.)  Of course, there are variations to both of those.

                                                     

                                                    Good luck,

                                                     

                                                    Hunt

                                                    A.  "viewers" with old DVD only players probably don't care that much about picture quality.

                                                     

                                                    B.  I've had very good success with AVCHD Discs straight out of PrE.  Their advantage is they are very cheap.  Their disadvantage is that you can only count on (about) 20 minutes for maximum length.  Even though my laptop has a Blu-Ray burner it is cheaper (for the same playback quality) to use AVCHD Discs if the video is short. 

                                                     

                                                    C.  PrE has a fine straight forward workflow with easy menu selections.  No issue there at all.  As I wrote earlier, I'm tempted to try a simplified version of Mr. Bellune's approach using some consumer software, even Windows DVD maker.

                                                     

                                                    D.  My favorite variation is to put a "computer" file on any medium.  It can be DVD, Blu-Ray, DropBox, Vimeo or thumb drive.   I have a two or three year old Sony Blu-Ray player that reads a wide variety of "computer files from discs or a USB port.  It also has a YouTube ap in it that use WiFi for a connection.  All these variations are better than playing a downscaled SD DVD in it.

                                                    • 23. Re: Poor DVD-quality in PE11
                                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                      Bill,

                                                       

                                                      I have a two or three year old Sony Blu-Ray player that reads a wide variety of "computer files from discs or a USB port.  It also has a YouTube ap in it that use WiFi for a connection.  All these variations are better than playing a downscaled SD DVD in it.

                                                      So long as the viewer DOES have an adequate player, then you should be fine.

                                                       

                                                      Just today, another user reported that their BD player would not play an AVCHD disc. It depends on the equipment that one has, or that one's clients/viewers have. Some work fine, like all of mine, but some do not. It just depends.

                                                       

                                                      For me, were I starting with HD (High Def) material, I would ONLY author to BD, unless I had clients/friends, who did not have that capability.

                                                       

                                                      Now, even with the lowly SD (Standard Definition) DVD-Video, my Marantz BD player upscales beautifully, as does my relative inexpensive Panasonic - DVD-Video never looked so good.

                                                       

                                                      At the end of a Project, it all comes down to the equipment that a viewer has available to play the disc.

                                                       

                                                      Good luck,

                                                       

                                                      Hunt