25 Replies Latest reply: Nov 5, 2013 1:19 PM by robert desbiens RSS

    creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature

    robert desbiens

      to my reckoning, pdf has recently introduced yellow highlighting as well as a comments feature in its pdf format, which is a welcome addition.  HOWEVER, a major MAJOR omission is the lack of text referencing (with corresponding labels) which is available with MsWord but not exportable when converting file to pdf.  when it comes to certain forms of e-book publishing, this text labelling feature is a powerful tool that, so far, has not been incorporated into any of the e-book publishing formats.  This is truly unfortunate however, the good news is that Acrobat has gone a certain distance in allowing for text highlighting (yellow shading) but not 'textmarking' (as opposed to page bookmarking per se).  I would STRONGLY recommend ACROBAT to get on this case and allow for a export of such editing features from Word to pdf as par of the standard file conversion process.  If anyone has a comment, please forward directly to my e-mail rpdesbiens@gmail as I am not up to these types of discussion forums....

        • 1. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
          Bill@VT CommunityMVP

          I will let others address the bookmarking in Acrobat that can be done. However, it is a simple matter to transfer the bookmarks from WORD also by using PDF Maker (the Acrobat menu in WORD). That should do what you need, unless your WORD and Acrobat are not compatible.

          • 2. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
            robert desbiens Community Member

            Bill

             

            Thanks for your reply.  My version of Word does not have a PDF feature

            embedded in the menu but leaving that issue aside, if Acrobat (PDF maker)

            doesn't currently have what I refer to as a textmark feature (separate from

            a 'pagemark' which is equivalent to what is commonly referred to as

            bookmark by PDF),  I don't see how the Word-based bookmark (complete with

            individual labelling of each designated 'bookmark' which is in fact more

            akin to a textmark) can be faithfully transposed over to PDF maker.  I will

            verify this tomorrow at a computer centre, but logically, I can't see how

            your suggestion could work...

             

            Would appreciate hearing back from you.  thanks and regards

            • 3. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
              try67 CommunityMVP

              Highlighting text and adding comments has been a part of Acrobat (and Reader) for many years now... It's not a recent addition at all, although recently the option to do it in Reader was greatly improved by removing the need to apply special rights to the file in Acrobat before-hand.

               

              Regarding "textmarking": It is possible, to some extent. If you select some text (using the Text Selection Tool) and press Ctrl+B, a new bookmark will be created, with the selected text as its name, pointing to the exact location of the text on the page. True, the text will not be highlighted when you click the bookmark, but it's close enough, I would think.

              If you really want the text to be highlighted it could probably be achieved with a script, by the way.

              • 4. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
                robert desbiens Community Member

                thanks for your comment.  When it comes to your suggestion about

                textmarking, exactly which Acrobat software version allows one to carry out

                the bookmark creation.  When attempting to bookmark a section of text using

                the freeware version of Acrobat Reader, nothing happens when pressing Ctrl

                + B.  Are you referring to Acrobat Pro?  Were this to be the case, how can

                a internet user who downloads a file containing these purported textmarks

                activate their use by using the freeware version of Acrobat Reader.  there

                is likewise no such feature available in Acrobat Digital Editions (freeware

                version).  So, there seems to be a disconnect between the apparent ability

                to bookmark a text using whatever Acrobat software and the lack of such an

                option in the Reader menu....

                • 5. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
                  robert desbiens Community Member

                  correction..  Bookmarking can in fact be carried out in ADE. But as of yet,

                  I can't replicate this feature in the freeware of Reader....

                   

                   

                  [ private information removed - see http://forums.adobe.com/docs/DOC-3731 ]

                  • 6. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
                    Dave Merchant CommunityMVP

                    robert - please stop quoting the original message when replying by email.

                     

                    see http://forums.adobe.com/docs/DOC-3731

                    • 7. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
                      try67 CommunityMVP

                      Reader can't add bookmarks of any type. You need to use Acrobat to do it.

                      • 8. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
                        Test Screen Name CommunityMVP

                        Reader is not able to do this, but if you pay for Acrobat it can. This is not a bug.

                        • 9. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
                          try67 CommunityMVP

                          Were this to be the case, how can

                          a internet user who downloads a file containing these purported textmarks

                          activate their use by using the freeware version of Acrobat Reader.

                           

                          I just want to clarify that you can use bookmarks in Reader (ie, click on them and have the file jump to where they're pointing), but you can't create them in there. The two things are very different.

                          • 10. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
                            robert desbiens Community Member

                            Through the various replies I have been getting and as a result of some

                            trial and error on my part I have come to the following observation (feel

                            free to comment or correct as the case may be)

                             

                            1)  With Reader one can indeed highlight and insert so-called sticky notes

                            into a pre-existing pdf document but inserting bookmarks is not possible

                            (don't ask me why...).  On the other hand, inserting bookmarks (via a

                            yellow shading of text)* is* possible using Adobe Digital Editions (which

                            is another reader software for a certain type of e-book) .  But, in

                            reality, the latter feature is a bit quirky because, when the highlighted

                            text is duly -bookmarked- there is an automatic caption that crops up to

                            the left column alongside the text column with mention of the first line of

                            the highlighted text (along with an additional option to provide a

                            'comment' which appears underneath the first line of the bookmark 'bullet'

                            ).  I have yet to witness a pdf document already incorporating -bookmarks-

                            using freeware Reader as a reading tool, so I cannot comment as to how it

                            would appear, indeed how this feature could be accessed in Reader.  If

                            anyone can send an innocuous sample pdf text that contains several of these

                            bookmarks already incorporated, I would appreciate.  Curiously though, the

                            freeware Reader doesn't have any mention of bookmarks in the menu (unless

                            perhaps that option only shows up if the pdf document already contains

                            bookmarks)

                             

                            2) It would appear that any bookmarks already embedded in a Word text would

                            not-not be transposed into a pdf equivalent during the file conversion

                            process.  This leaves only the possibility of manually (re) inserting the

                            same bookmarks using PDF maker or whatever other Acrobat software (other

                            than Reader).

                             

                            3) Not having had the occasion to review any pdf document already

                            incorporating bookmarks in its set-up, I can only tentatively assume that

                            the visual format that obtains in any such file is not much different from

                            the visual format appearing in Adobe Digitial Editions.  Were this to be

                            the case, the feature is neither user-friendly nor reader friendly,

                            especially in comparison with the MsWord equivalent.  For example, if one

                            is dealing with a large document in which up to several hundred

                            bookmarks(in fact labeled textmarks) are inserted thoughout the text, the

                            profileration of yellow shaded passages (as per the aforesaid ADE example)

                            are (automatically) 'bookmarked' with a first line (with an additional

                            option of providing  a so-called comment - more akin to a 'label', using

                            Word terminology), this would end up being totally unwieldy and

                            impractical.  Ms Word-based bookmarks, on the other hand, have to be

                            prepared manually and are not automatically generated by any text colour

                            shading, and there is no automatic referencing of the bookmark by recourse

                            to the first line of the bookmarked text.  On the other hand, labelling of

                            the text is mandatory for the bookmarking process to be duly registered and

                            saved.  This makes for easy navigation within the bookmark window where

                            labels can be found either alphabetically *or *in the sequence in which

                            they appear in the body of the document text.  Instead of grey or other

                            color shading of the bookmarked text, there is an (optional)  feature in

                            Word that allows 'hatchet' marks to delimit the beginning and end of each

                            and every bookmarked text.  This makes it easy to navigate throughout the

                            document text, where one can also activate the review pane in order to

                            check on the virtual comments appearing in the margins (with pointers to

                            the text)  , in tandem with the bookmarked 'hatchets'.  In addition, bona

                            fide color shaded text rounds out the picture.

                             

                            To Word's credit, text shading, bookmarking and virtual (ie. non text-body)

                            comments are kept distinct and separate.  In ADE (and I suspect also in

                            Acrobat) text shading is conflated with bookmarking whereas I clearly

                            prefer to have bookmarking and text shading (highlighting in common

                            parlance) as separate and distinct features,as is the case in Word. When

                            one is guided to the bookmarked text proper by clicking on the

                            corresponding bookmark label, the navigation pane to the left of the text

                            in Word jumps towards the corresponding chapter or sub-chapter heading that

                            is duly cross-referenced using the TOC or similar indexing feature.

                            Moreover, the bookmarked text within the document proper is virtually

                            highlighted in the body of the Word text but is left otherwise unformatted

                            in regular unhighlighted mode when one clicks once again anywhere within

                            the bookmarked text proper.  Which results in a reader-friendly uncluttered

                            display in Word whereas I fail to see any similar synchronisation in ADE

                            between the bookmarked text and its corresponding chapter referencing.

                            That is, one has the option of clicking on the window that reveals the TOC

                            or the bookmark ones in the case of ADE, but they don't appear

                            synchronized per se.  In any case, if one is dealing with a fairly small

                            number of bookmarks within a document, that is perhaps not much of a

                            problem, but the same does not hold true for works of literature running

                            into a thousand or more pages in length where numerous bookmarks are on

                            display....

                             

                            Conclusion:  there is needless complexity in the interplay between

                            Acrobat text treatment (using pdf maker or whatever) and the corresponding

                            Reader software in that certain editing features are accessible through

                            Reader whereas others (notably bookmarking) are not.  Incorporation of

                            numberous bookmarks in a pdf document would generate a 'riot' of  color

                            shaded passages *assuming that this occurs in pdf text preparation similar

                            to what obtains for ADE file format).  Cross-referencing of labelled

                            bookmarks bearing similar alphabetically-designated themes - but not

                            appearing in sequence - within the document (eg. Victoria's physical

                            features, Victoria's betrayal of her best friend, etc...) would seem to be

                            impossible to effectuate in the Acrobat format.  To scroll through several

                            hundred bookmark labels (comments)  (containing also the first line of the

                            bookmarked text to boot) as per the ADE visual format is simply not

                            digestible.   As things stand now, it would not appear that the end product

                            of a pdf generated text would lend itslef to text treatment and analysis on

                            par with what Word already offers...

                             

                            This means that the digital book properties of the PDF format leave much to

                            be desired.  Mind you, one is no further ahead with either epub or Kindle

                            software.

                            • 11. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
                              Test Screen Name CommunityMVP

                              I'm not sure I follow your distinction about the type of bookmark, but countless millions of PDFs include bookmarks, and they are made automatically by PDFMaker from Word styles (not Word bookmarks).

                               

                              Visbility of bookmarks is controlled from the View menu and the tabs running

                              down the left hand side in both Acrobat and Reader. The creator of a PDF decides if they are visible initially.

                               

                              Here is just one example.

                              http://www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/devnet/acrobat/pdfs/pdfmark_reference.pdf

                              • 12. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
                                try67 CommunityMVP

                                I think your conclusions are completely wrong. You haven't even looked at a PDF with bookmarks in it, you say, so how can you claim that it's "not on par with what Word already offers"? That's just incorrect. You need to understand that Reader is just that, a READER. It can't edit or create PDF files. The only thing it can do is view them and (in some cases) make comments on them. That's it.

                                Digital Editions is a whole other thing entirely.

                                 

                                If you want to assess what can be done with PDF files you need to get Acrobat. There's a free 30-day trial version you can install and use. Once you do that you'll see that converting Word bookmarks to PDF ones is very easy, using the PDF Maker plugin for Word, and that bookmarks in a PDF can be moved around, edited, removed, added, etc. in Acrobat.

                                Until you do that you're just talking without any experience or knowledge on the subject, I'm afraid.

                                • 13. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
                                  robert desbiens Community Member

                                  I will check out the full edition of Acrobat, more to the point, I will

                                  endeavour to have this conversion process carried by someone in the

                                  document editing business well versed on the topic to sort it all out.  It

                                  would have been appreciated had you or others in the forum state baldly

                                  from the outset the 'how to' in terms of 'converting' Word bookmarks to

                                  PDF with the PDF Maker plugin.  By the way, is that plugin 'plugged in'

                                  (available) inside Word (for conversion over to PDF along with the Word

                                  created bookmarks), or is the plug-in 'plugged into' Acrobat to somehow

                                  re-create the bookmarks that are already found within the Word document?

                                   

                                  FYI, if you make the claim that Digital Editions is a whole other thing,

                                  let me inform you that, so far, of all the e-books I have downloaded from

                                  Amazon or Penguin, every single one of them is downloaded using DE and not

                                  Acrobat Reader.   I don't spend my life on working out the niceties between

                                  this or that e-book reader software: I'm in the business of document

                                  writing, not sifting through all the software items on the market to

                                  compare the differences between this or that document editing feature when

                                  Word is the premier and universal software for document writing and when a

                                  cursory look at Reader makes no mention whatsoever of bookmarks,

                                  irrespective of whether any given pdf file contains them or not.   Some

                                  other comment mentions that 'millions' of pdf files have bookmarks in them,

                                  yet I have yet to come across one single pdf file the contains that feature

                                  (and I'm not exactly a low-volume reader) and no Reader I have used draws

                                  reference to bookmarks.  Doesn't that strike you as a bit odd if, all the

                                  while, the plug in feature in PDF Maker apparently takes care of all of

                                  that (which I sincerely hope is the case)...

                                   

                                  And unfortunately, I don't live in a high tech city like NYC or LA where

                                  computer techies abound to sift through all this maze.  But thanks in the

                                  end for making it all clear....

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  --

                                  Robert Desbiens

                                  • 14. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
                                    Test Screen Name CommunityMVP

                                    It would have been appreciated had you or others in the forum state baldly

                                    from the outset the 'how to' in terms of 'converting' Word bookmarks to

                                    PDF with the PDF Maker plugin.

                                     

                                    The assumption, perhaps wrong, is that anyone with Acrobat will already be using this method to make PDFs. There are many ways to use it, from Word, from Acrobat, and from Windows. The biggest control is in Word where you can set options about which Word styles become bookmarks. In all cases, no matter how you start it, Word is used to make the PDF in conjunction with the Acrobat add-in.

                                     

                                    I don't spend my life on working out the niceties between this or that e-book reader software:

                                     

                                    Yes, but we do. If you don't know the difference, we can help you, but your experiences don't turn one into the other, or make them interchangeable. There are many PDF readers, some made by Adobe, and some made by other people. They don't all have the same features, so we do need to know which one you mean.

                                     

                                    Some

                                    other comment mentions that 'millions' of pdf files have bookmarks in them,

                                    yet I have yet to come across one single pdf file the contains that feature

                                     

                                    Yes, I mentioned that AND suggested a file to you. Did you take a look? If you don't see the bookmarks, what app is active when you are viewing the file?

                                    • 15. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
                                      robert desbiens Community Member

                                      Ok thanks for the quick reply.  To be honest, I am not 'in the mood' to

                                      'discover' the plug in feature as I have more pressing issues to attend,

                                      but now that you make it clear that it is possible, I will forward this

                                      stuff, including the sample file you provided, over to an professional

                                      involved in document preparation to see if he or she can arrive at the Holy

                                      Grail...  It will be a challenging undertaking however, since the Word

                                      document in question contains some 640 bookmarked passages in total, in

                                      addition to some 300 or so yellow highlighted passages and over 70

                                      comments.

                                       

                                      I always equated a pdf format to Adobe whereas you say that others also

                                      create or generates pdf formats..  One learns something new every day.....

                                      • 16. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
                                        robert desbiens Community Member

                                        is this document available in Spanish?... I'm living in Colombia and some

                                        of  the techies out here are not versant enough in English to follow the

                                        text...

                                         

                                        http://www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/devnet/acrobat/pdfs/pdfmark_

                                        reference.pdf<http://www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/devnet/acrobat/pdfs/pdfmark_reference.pdf>

                                         

                                        Thanks and regards

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        --

                                        Robert Desbiens

                                        • 17. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
                                          Test Screen Name CommunityMVP

                                          There is absolutely no reason for you or your technies to read this document (unless they wanted to). I simply gave it as an example of a ready made document (one of millions) which had bookmarks already in it, since you did not seem to be familiar with what they look like.

                                          • 18. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
                                            robert desbiens Community Member

                                            There is absolutely no reason for you or your technies to read this

                                            document (unless they wanted to). I simply gave it as an example of a ready

                                            made document (one of millions) which had bookmarks already in it, since

                                            you did not seem to be familiar with what they look like.

                                             

                                             

                                            we're sort of back to square one....  I now realize that the document was

                                            meant as a sample of bookmark  rather than as a manual which contains

                                            instructions as to how to create a bookmark (although there is a section as

                                            such devoted to bookmarks which I scanned diagonally..).  Once again, I

                                            bring to your attention that the concept behind bookmarks (as per your text

                                            sample) resembles more a pagemark to which there is a text blurb

                                            corresponding to the subject material of the labeled bookmark.  But, unlike

                                            Word (and even Adobe Digital Editions) there is no specific pegging of the

                                            beggining or  end of the text blurb that specifically corresponds to the

                                            bookmark label.  In my Word document, a bookmark (textmark) can be either

                                            two lines or several pages in length with a clearly defined beginning and

                                            ending (with no permanent text shading within the document itself, just

                                            shading of the text within the bookmark mode, if you follow me).

                                             

                                            It is a step forward but the problem lies with the absence of specific

                                            textmarking, your bookmark simply points to the page containing the subject

                                            heading.   In a literature text with very few chapter headings and the

                                            like, the bookmark has to pinpoint *the specific text that is being

                                            'textmarked' and labeled*.  I don't see that feature in Acrobat.....

                                            • 19. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
                                              try67 CommunityMVP

                                              A bookmark can point to any specific location on a page, not just to the page as a whole. It can even contain information about the zoom level at which that location should be displayed when clicked.

                                               

                                              A bookmark in a PDF is basically a button. When clicked it can execute a certain action, such as "Go to place X on page Y with zoom level Z", or "Open the web-page: http://www.adobe.com", or "Run the following JavaScript code...", etc. It can do many such actions, or none at all. In that sense it is far more advanced than Word bookmarks.

                                               

                                              Also, the fact that a bookmark points to a piece of text on the page which is also the bookmark's name is not a must. It can have a completely different name to what it's pointing to.

                                              • 20. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
                                                Test Screen Name CommunityMVP

                                                You are correct that a bookmark is only a link, and not coupled with highlighting. Your suggested "textmark" sounds interesting, but is not what bookmarks do. (And this would require a change to the PDF standard too).

                                                • 21. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
                                                  robert desbiens Community Member

                                                  >

                                                   

                                                  Also, the fact that a bookmark points to a piece of text on the page which

                                                  is also the bookmark's name is not a must. It can have a completely

                                                  different name to what it's pointing to.

                                                   

                                                  Ok we're getting close.  The big 'hic' is to create a 'textmark' for text

                                                  which runs several pages in length and for which there is no discontinuity

                                                  or thematic-subject boundary (for lack of a better way of putting it) of

                                                  the bookmarked passage within the overall section of document (ie. there is

                                                  no ensuing chapter heading at the end of the bookmarked text passage to

                                                  signify to the reader that the textmark has 'logically' come to an end).

                                                   

                                                  I am not saying that Word is superior to Adobe (or vice-versa), what

                                                  I* am*saying is that the Word version of labelled bookmarks has the

                                                  advantage

                                                  (from my perspective) of specifically *delimiting *the text, regardless of

                                                  the length of the latter, (without having to color shade the text, as what

                                                  happens for example when you create the bookmark within Digital Editions).

                                                  Curiously enough, when dabbling with Digital Editions (which I presume is

                                                  also an Adobe product), you can even create a bookmark using the 'reader'

                                                  of the ADE, however, it is a bit cumbersome insofar as one has to highlight

                                                  the passage (color shading) and the view page (navigation page) then

                                                  automatically generates the first words in the bookmarked text line and

                                                  offers you to insert a comment (which is really tantamount to a labeling of

                                                  the bookmark but which appears below the first line).   But, in the end,

                                                  you get the 'textmark' you want (albeit via a shaded passage of the text),

                                                  as opposed to a page-oriented bookmark (notwithstanding your comment above)

                                                  which, to my reckoning, is what Acobat is offering - even if it allows for

                                                  a bookmark to point to a specific piece of text on the page (ie. it jumps

                                                  to the beginiing of the text but, so far as I can gather, doesn't delimit

                                                  the text proper..

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  --

                                                  Robert Desbiens

                                                  CONSULTEC

                                                  Sustainable Urban Transport Systems

                                                  • 22. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
                                                    try67 CommunityMVP

                                                    I don't know how many times we can say it... PDF bookmarks do not point to text AT ALL. They point to a specific point in the document. That's it.

                                                    • 23. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
                                                      robert desbiens Community Member

                                                      I don't know how many times we can say it... PDF bookmarks do not point to

                                                      text AT ALL. They point to a specific point in the document. That's it.

                                                       

                                                      Great!!!! we're finally on the same page....  To what extent can we talk

                                                      about ADE rather than PDF.  I think the prospects are more promising in

                                                      that direction.  Does your unit cover ADE as well?   If not, can you please

                                                      forward this thread to the attention of someone who does within Acrobat?

                                                       

                                                      --

                                                      Robert Desbiens

                                                      • 24. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
                                                        try67 CommunityMVP

                                                        I don't know what you mean by "unit"... You realize you're talking to fellow users, right? We're not Adobe employees, unless otherwise mentioned.

                                                         

                                                        There's a separate forum here about Digital Editions. Post any questions you have about that application there.

                                                        • 25. Re: creation of bookmark (textmark) feature in pdf similar to MsWord's text bookmark feature
                                                          robert desbiens Community Member

                                                          I don't know what you mean by "unit"... You realize you're talking to

                                                          fellow users, right? We're not Adobe employees, unless otherwise mentioned.

                                                           

                                                          Well I'll be damned....  Judging by the somewhat defensive nature of some

                                                          of the previous replies, especially in defending pdf qualities in

                                                          comparison with Word, I could have sworn that I was dealing with Adobe

                                                          staff,  even though I was aware that the forum was open to both employees

                                                          as well as outsiders..   Though I appreciate your kind efforts, in the end,

                                                          I just wish that one could write an e-mail directly to Adobe Technical

                                                          Support to get to the bottom of these issues.

                                                           

                                                          Over and out......