32 Replies Latest reply on Mar 17, 2017 5:41 PM by gener7

    Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat? [Locked]

    Doyle Lonnigan

      So, I just went to incorporate a partial image of a twenty dollar bill in a graphic I'm creating and PS slapped my hand and said it won't allow me to edit imagery of currency.  Since I work for a financial institution and money imagery is central to my work, this suddenly presents me with a real handicap I don't recall encountering in previous versions (I have CS6).  Specifically, I'm trying to crop the bill so I can map it onto one facet of a cube in a 3D animation program.  While I can appreciate Adobe trying to mitigate the potential misuse of their software, I think this is wrong headed.  Money imagery is commonly used in commercial multimedia and last I checked Photoshop was a tool for design, not law enforcement.

       

      I can't do my job effectively unless I can get around this annoying nanny feature.  Is there a way I can coax Photoshop into treating me like a grown up?  Any advice welcome.

        • 1. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
          Chuck Uebele Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Ran into this issue when some engineers sent me an image with a $20 bill for scale.  Couldn't open it.

           

          http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/news/2004/01/61890?currentPage=all

          • 2. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
            Level 7

            If working with money images is central to your work, then you already know all about the rules and available images that you can use.

            http://www.rulesforuse.org/pub/index.php

            • 3. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
              Doyle Lonnigan Level 1

              Yes, as a matter of fact, I do.  Which is why I know I can use money in my work if I handle it correctly.  Photoshop sent me to that link already and all it does it tell you the restrictions on reproducing a Federal Reserve Note.  I don't want to reproduce anything, I want to use money imagery in a video production and to do that I need to be able to use the multimedia suite that we shelled out $2,500 for.  If I wanted to spend that money on protecting our currency I would've sent it to the Secret Service. 

              • 4. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                G.Hoffmann Level 3

                With older versions of PhS one can handle images of bank notes:

                 

                http://www.fho-emden.de/~hoffmann/testPhS7.pdf

                 

                Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

                • 5. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                  PeterK.. Level 3

                  The first version that had the restriction that wouldn't allow you to open the currency (I think it was CS2) cause a huge uproar from designers who constantly used it in designs in advertising (save money! 50% off! And pretty much anything for commerce) The next version they dropped the "feature" that didn't allow you to open the image and simply gave you the warning with a link, but otherwise allowed you to work on your images. I guess they were strong-armed into putting the block back on.

                  • 6. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                    Level 7

                    Peter - I think your memory may be faulty. We never removed the block, just added the URL to the message.

                    • 7. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                      Doyle Lonnigan Level 1

                      Well, I guess this should drive a stake into the heart of organized counterfeiting, eh?  Seriously, I'd think that any operation with the resources to fake the cotton/linen Federal Reserve Note paper will have no problem bending Photoshop to their will.  Some dude in a home office can't make or use the paper and would be incapable of producing a convincing bank note even if the Treasury loaned them the actual plates.  Use your noggin', Adobe.  This is pretty ridiculous.

                       

                      Now I have to figure out some time-consuming workaround which will probably be inferior to the ones the countereiters have surely developed already.  This feature poses no practical problems for lawbreakers, it only creates headaches for honest users.

                       

                      Maybe  I'm wrong, Chris, but I don't recall having this issue in CS5.

                      • 8. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                        Level 7

                        It was in CS5 as well.

                         

                        As for the reasons, you can go talk to the Secret Service and the Central Bank Counterfeit Deterrence Group.

                         

                        And again, if you really work with currency images all the time, you really should have already known about this.

                        • 9. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                          Level 5

                          This has been in effect for years and years.  It's not new to any recent version of Photoshop.

                           

                          It was discussed ad nauseam in these forums years ago when first implemented.

                           

                          A simple Google or forum search would have told you this.

                          • 10. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                            John Waller Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Yes, a Counterfeit Deterrence System was first introduced in Photoshop CS way back in 2004, (and fiercely debated - and workarounds sought - on forums even then)

                            http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=745605

                            • 11. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                              Doyle Lonnigan Level 1

                              Wow, Chris and Station_two ... what a couple of condescending *****.  I don't care if it was implemented last week or last century, I've been doing this for over twenty years and I haven't hit this particular road block until TODAY.  I've handled money images for my entire career with no problem.  I remember getting a similar message when I was using CS2 or 3, but whatever the issue was it didn't last long and I haven't been bothered by it since.  My co-worker (less experienced but not a newbie) was also surprised when CS6 rejected his money image.

                               

                              Station_two - when I have an Adobe problem I go to Adobe, not Google.  I searched the forum and did not get any relevant returns, so I posted.  Clearly, you're free to chime in with your useless and troll-like post, but perhaps the "staff" could offer some actual help instead of passive/aggressive insults and what appears to be an extended middle finger?  A quick Google search for "common courtesy" or "customer service" would tell you this.

                               

                              I don't need to ask the Secret Service or Central Bank why they'd want this feature.  Their motives are clear and this feature falls in line with their mandate.  My problem is with the design software suite which I purchased from Adobe.  Adobe was not forced to implement this feature and is ultimately responsible for it.  I don't believe it's effective or worth the hassle and I don't think I'm out of line to say as much in this forum.  Better late than never.

                              • 12. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                                PeterK.. Level 3

                                I started doubting myself, but I was pretty sure Adobe allowed the editing after the uproar. Here's the proof. In CS3 you could open money images after getting the warning by  clicking OK.

                                moneycs3screencap.png

                                So why did they go back to blocking it entirely? Policing is a job for the government, not private corporations but that's my opinion. And as has already been pointed out, things like this (as well as software activation and other things meant to trip up criminals) are never a problem for the criminals, only the honest users.

                                • 13. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                                  Doyle Lonnigan Level 1

                                  Thank you, Peter.  I knew I wasn't crazy.  And this message suggests what I'd consider a better solution, which is curbing use of these images on the printing side and not on the import side.  Plenty of people like myself use Photoshop for purposes that don't involve printing at all.

                                  • 14. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                                    Level 7

                                    Hmm, I didn't recall allowing them to be opened.

                                     

                                    And again, for the reasons you need to go talk to the Secret Service and the Central Bank Counterfeit Deterrence Group.

                                    • 15. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                                      gener7 Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      This might explain it.

                                       

                                      "Central banks are pushing for counterfeit protections in software as well as hardware. The anti-counterfeit software in Photoshop CS was developed by the Central Bank Counterfeit Deterrence Group, an organization established by the governors of the G-10 central banks to promote the use of anti-counterfeit devices in the computer industry."

                                       

                                      As a software vendor do you really want to tell central banks to mind their own business?

                                      • 16. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                                        Level 5

                                        Lonnigan, I don't need to google "common courtesy" to know that it, and basic human decency, dictate doing your due diligence before posting on a forum.

                                        • 17. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                                          Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                                          A quick Google found any number of means to bypass the restriction, and as has been stated back up this thread, you can be sure that serious bad guys have no problem getting past it.  I will admit to printing a couple of English large denomination bank notes some years ago, which were used in a workplace haze doing a magic trick that went horribly wrong. :-)   After the first note was destroyed, we insisted on trying again, and promptly destroyed the second note, to the utter horror of the onlookers who were not in on the joke. 

                                          • 18. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                                            Level 5

                                            Incidentally, the search function in these forums is an unimitigated P.O.S.  You're much better off using Google and adding: "site:adobe.forums.com" to your search when searching these forums.

                                            • 19. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                                              Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                                              station_two wrote:

                                               

                                              Incidentally, the search function in these forums is an unimitigated P.O.S.  You're much better off using Google and adding: "site:adobe.forums.com" to your search when searching these forums.

                                               

                                              I'll add a great big 'me too' to that.  I wouldn't dream of trying to search these forums any other way!

                                              • 20. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                                                Benhut1 Level 1

                                                While there is a legal obligation that any printed image of money must be only a partial image, smaller than the real thing by a certain size, larger than the real thing by a certain size, or be entirely in black&white, or be distorted in such a way that it couldn't be passed off as the real thing (wrap it as a texture to a 3d object in 3d modeling software, or scan it in with it not flat, so that the whole face of the dollar bill could never be shown), there is no legal obligation for any company that makes image editing software to incorporate a money image detection and blocking feature in their software. Most image editing software programs in fact do not have this feature (take the GIMP for example).

                                                 

                                                If you did incorporate a money image blocking feature in your software that made sense, it would be on the "print" button, because that's where it really counts. If a person is going to try to buy something with a counterfeit dollar bill, they won't bring their laptop to the store with an image on the screen, it will be a piece of paper with a money image that they have printed. The crime of counterfeiting does not occur with image files showing money, it occurs with the act of printing the fake money. Your company's choice to block the loading and saving of money images, as well as the copying and pasting of money images, in your software, is not a reasonable decision. It appears to be an irrational act of fear of legal action (possibly fear that if your software is used by counterfeiters that the government will hold you responsible for it, which you shouldn't fear, because the law does not require you to incorporate money blocking features in your software), or fear of public relations problem (possibly fear that you will be perceived by the general public as helping criminals, which you actually aren't, since you are under no legal obligation to block the use of money images in your software).

                                                 

                                                However your fear driven action of putting money blocking features in your software will likely actually create a PR (public relations) problem for your company. When people who are in business where they use your software to create advertising images, and other images, that involve depictions of money, and they find they are unable to perform their job because of your software's blocking, they will likely have massive complaints about your company's decision to include money blocking features in your software. And that will hurt your PR far worse than if some counterfeiter happened to use your software in their illegal acts (which they probably already do, by sticking to using older versions of it, or hacking newer versions of it to get around the money blocking features).

                                                • 21. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                                                  John Waller Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                  As already mentioned in this discussion, the CDS feature has been in Photoshop for over 10 years now.

                                                   

                                                  I don't see Adobe's policy changing.

                                                  • 22. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                                                    Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                                                    People have spoken of work-arounds, but when you ask them to go into detail, they have disappeared from the face if the earth, with no evidence of them having been here except the receding sound of black helicopters. 

                                                     

                                                    This information has been bought to you by Grassy Knoll Productions, in collaboration with Adobe's Room 101, and now they are going to have to kill us all!

                                                    • 23. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                                                      Benhut1 Level 1

                                                      I know, but my point was it is unnecessary (not required under the law), and appears to be more of an over reaction on the part of Adobe, to a perceived issue. I only wish that there was more of a backlash (such a boycott) from Adobe's customers, so that they would be compelled to remove this unneeded and unwanted "feature".

                                                      • 24. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                                                        ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                        A simple currency-detection scheme, like in copiers, looks for five circles easily visible in the blue channel, usually yellow or green or orange, arranged in a specific pattern that is called the EURion because the arrangement is similar to the stars in the constellation Orion:
                                                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation

                                                         

                                                        [ urban myth removed by admin -- that story is easily verifiable as complete B.S. ]

                                                        • 25. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                                                          John Waller Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                          Agreed there are many ways to circumvent the technical hurdles.

                                                           

                                                          I suspect Adobe has included CDS to comply with requests from federal agencies. Makes it harder but it'll never be impossible.

                                                          • 26. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                                                            Benhut1 Level 1

                                                            I do not believe there were any such requests. The law does not require that this feature be implemented in any software (and most image software doesn't have it). In fact, this "feature" (if you can even call it that) actually blocks images that fit within what the law allows! Read the official US government website about currency images, and you'll see very quickly that Adobe is overreacting here. They probably just want to cover their butts from a potential lawsuit (since people can sue for anything these days) if anybody used PS to create fake money. If the point is to prevent fake money making, then they would prevent PRINTING of money from within PS, not prevent loading the money image (which prevents artistic uses of money images).

                                                            • 27. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                                                              John Waller Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                              Believe what you like but articles written back in 2004 when CDS was first introduced into Photoshop CS say it was included by Adobe at the request of the Central Bank Counterfeit Deterrence Group (CBCDG) Adobe confirms it's got counterfeit cash block- The Inquirer

                                                               

                                                              However, Wikipedia says it was voluntary on Adobe's part. People will always speculate as to why.

                                                               

                                                              Doesn't change the main point: CDS is included in Photoshop.

                                                              • 28. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                                                                Benhut1 Level 1

                                                                CBCDG isn't the US government. Adobe did it voluntarily (as it is a voluntary program) to probably avoid any appearance of going easy on counterfeiting. Just a PR move, and possibly also to avoid any potential lawsuit liability if their software ever was used for that. However they implemented it improperly. It SHOULD have been applied to the File Print command so you can't PRINT money illegally (rather than to the File Open command). There's no law against manipulating images of money on a computer, but there sure is a law about printing it.

                                                                • 29. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                                                                  Noel Carboni Level 8

                                                                  That's a bit silly, since a zillion programs can be used to print the various formats Adobe's software can save.

                                                                   

                                                                  If they're going to take a stand against counterfeiting, the only reasonable approach is to completely shun the manipulation of currency images.

                                                                   

                                                                  -Noel

                                                                  • 30. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                                                                    Noel Carboni Level 8

                                                                    By the way, from a pragmatic perspective, if you really really need images of money in your designs, there are images of older currency that aren't blocked.  Everyone would recognize this as currency, even though it's not in circulation:

                                                                     

                                                                    1000_Dollar_Bill.jpg

                                                                     

                                                                    -Noel

                                                                    • 31. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                                                                      Irishspacemonk Level 1

                                                                      Unhelpful response. Try reading the rules yourself, and then you'll realize it's not Adobe's responsibility to police designers.

                                                                      • 32. Re: Can't use money in my work?  Whaaaat?
                                                                        gener7 Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                        That ship sailed in 2004. Nothing has changed. Adobe's decision is legal and you have your options to go with something else.

                                                                         

                                                                        Also we are not Adobe Staff. We have no say in Adobe's business than we do in yours.  So this matter is not even up for debate.

                                                                         

                                                                        Disclaimer:

                                                                         

                                                                        Please understand that these forums are not Adobe Support. The vast majority of the participants here are end users themselves volunteering their personal time to assist other users. Occasionally, Adobe employees do monitor these forums although in many cases, they are also not part of Adobe Support.

                                                                         

                                                                        With that this thread has been correctly answered and is locked.