23 Replies Latest reply on Nov 2, 2013 2:31 PM by miamidean

    How to overprint one graphic on another

    miamidean

      I have a document with only one layer.  There is a background very transparent layer (25%) with text on top of it.  I created black circles with white numbers in them as bullet points.  However, I cannot move them into position next to the text.  I have sent the bullet points to Front and the background graphic to back but the bullet points still are not visible when moved over the graphic.

        • 1. Re: How to overprint one graphic on another
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          Sounds like you have text wrap enabled on the background...

          • 2. Re: How to overprint one graphic on another
            miamidean Level 1

            I have a large text box overprinting the background graphic.  I played with changing that setting and watching the result in the text.  That setting seems to make no difference with the bullet points. Also in Arrange I moved bullet points to front and that option is now grayed.  I can only move it backward.  The background graphic was moved to to Back and that is grayed out now.  It can only move forward.

            • 3. Re: How to overprint one graphic on another
              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

              Are these bullets in individual frames? Perhaps the text wrap is applied not to the background, but to your main text frame.

               

              A screen shot would really help....

              • 4. Re: How to overprint one graphic on another
                miamidean Level 1

                Don't think it has to do with the text frame.  When I move the graphic the bullets are fully visible.Snip 1.PNG

                • 5. Re: How to overprint one graphic on another
                  miamidean Level 1

                  I posted a screen shot of the area where you can clearly see the background and the text overprinting and how only the parts of the bullets extending beyond the graphics frame are visible.

                  Btw thanks for your help!

                  • 6. Re: How to overprint one graphic on another
                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                    The bullets are clearly behind the graphic frame. Are they on the same layer? The stacking commands (move forward, send to back, etc) only apply to the same layer, they won't move an object to another layer.

                    • 7. Re: How to overprint one graphic on another
                      miamidean Level 1

                      There is only one layer in the document.

                      • 8. Re: How to overprint one graphic on another
                        Ellis home Level 4

                        Can you show a screenshot of your Layers panel showing the layers (click on the little arrow next to Layer 1)? As Peter says, it looks more than one layer: you have your background, text on top of it and the bullets. Something like this:

                         

                        Capture.JPG

                        • 9. Re: How to overprint one graphic on another
                          miamidean Level 1

                          That looks close to what I want.  Here is the Layers Panel.snipit2.PNG

                          • 10. Re: How to overprint one graphic on another
                            Ellis home Level 4

                            Interesting. Can you walk us through how did you build this page? Do you have any elements on the master page? What version of ID are you using?

                            • 11. Re: How to overprint one graphic on another
                              miamidean Level 1

                              I built this on a learning curve.  There is no Master.  This is first of 4 pages.  I started with the graphic elements including the background graphic which, if I remember correctly w was png.  I had the text ready in Word and inserted and formatted that part.  Then I attempted to Putin the bullet points as the last detail.  I'm not sure how much more I could give you.

                              • 12. Re: How to overprint one graphic on another
                                miamidean Level 1

                                Sorry. CS3 on Win7 desktop.

                                • 13. Re: How to overprint one graphic on another
                                  Ellis home Level 4

                                  Well, that's almost exactly what I did. The only difference is that I used Place Holder text. I'm on Windows CS6. There are other forum contributors familiar with CS3 that might chime in. Although I don't know if that's relevant in this case.

                                  One more question: are you able to select the bullets? How did you get the bullets?

                                  • 14. Re: How to overprint one graphic on another
                                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                    CS3 is a bit harder to work with than newer versions because the layers panel doesn't show the objects, but this is definitiely a stacking order problem. Let's see if we can get it better organized.

                                     

                                    Click the New Layer button (to the left of the trash can, at the bottm of the panel) and make a second layer, then drag it below the ne you have. Open the panel flyout menu and make sure Paste Remembers Layers is NOT checked.

                                     

                                    Select the graphic and cut it the clip board. In the Layers panel, select the new bottom layer and then Edit > Paste in Place to put the graphic inthe correct position on the bottom layer.

                                     

                                    Select the main text frame. Object > Arrange > Send to Back. Everything should now be visible.

                                    • 15. Re: How to overprint one graphic on another
                                      miamidean Level 1

                                      Well, gave it a shot, Petersnip3.PNG.  You can see the result.  The text is now behind the graphic.  That is just a matter of bringing it forward.  I copied and pasted on the new layer now on the bottom.  It still will not allow the bullets to be visible.  I also tried creating a new bullet on the new layer and it was not visible either.  Something has to be going on with that background graphic it seems like.

                                      • 16. Re: How to overprint one graphic on another
                                        miamidean Level 1

                                        In addition I deleted the graphic, placed the bullets and then Edit > Place to put the graphic back in and Send to Back.  Same result.

                                        Also on another page I tried to put a shape (like the bullet) on another graphic and had the same result.  Is it possible there is a global setting for graphics that is causing the problem?

                                        • 17. Re: How to overprint one graphic on another
                                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                          Rather than continue to play guessing games, can you send me the file so I can see what you've done? I'll send you an upload link in a Private Message.

                                          • 18. Re: How to overprint one graphic on another
                                            miamidean Level 1

                                            OK. Do you have access to my email?

                                            Dean

                                            • 19. Re: How to overprint one graphic on another
                                              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                              miamidean wrote:

                                              Is it possible there is a global setting for graphics that is causing the problem?

                                              I'm going to say no, but I don't know until I see the file what you've set for defaults that might be a problem.

                                              • 20. Re: How to overprint one graphic on another
                                                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                OK, there are a copuple of problems in the file that jumped out at me, but let's start with the disappearing bullets. The black circles, along with the other black circles on all pages except for the large one behind the 1 at the top of page 1 are all set to a blend mode of Screen (this includes the ones for the Pregunta Clave keyholes). This blend mode is also set as the default, so yes, you have a global setting that is causing this, but it isn't normal.

                                                 

                                                First, with no files open, oepn the effects panel and check to be sure that the default blend mode is set to Normal so it doesn't get screwed up in any new files. Next open this file and with nothing selected, open the effects panel and reset the blend mode to Normal to fix the default for the file. Finally, use the Direct Select too (white arrow) to select the black circles and reset the belnd mode to Normal at which point they should show in front of the image (you can click on them more easily if you show frame edges from the View menu -- click to the left of the text frames that show up).

                                                 

                                                I don't know if you inteneded to set some object to screen mode or not, but this is cleary an accident of having seelcted the blend mode with no object selected. This happens a lot with new users and text wrap.

                                                 

                                                The next area of concern to me is the Confianza title text. You've used a rich balck mix, then appied a tint, and finally some transparency as well to lighten it. First, I'd be very cautious about using a rich black for type -- it causes headaches with registration on press -- and transparency should be used whre it is required to interact with something behind, which is not the case here. You can use a lighter tint instead to achieve the same effect and have less change of a problem when the file is RIPped at the printer. I cna't actually decide if I think you'd be better of with a lighter 4-color mix (the type is large enough you'd probably get away with it) or just a tint of K. In either case I think you're going to see halftone dots in the final output.

                                                 

                                                Finally, because I also opened the file in CS6 so I could expand the layers and see the individual objects listed, I noticed that you have a number of pasted images. You should always Place, never paste, except from Illustrator (or you can copy/paste previously Placed objects from the same or different ID files). While pasting from Illustrator cna give you editable paths in your ID file, it makes it harder to re-use the asset in many files and make a change, so I rarely paste paths, either. Pasting graphic content from any other application give you only the screen preview, and no link, so you cannot edit the original and update, and print quality will be poor.

                                                • 21. Re: How to overprint one graphic on another
                                                  miamidean Level 1

                                                  Wow.  So much to learn.  I can understand how I could have hit the screen with nothing selected.  But that is resolved.  Everything is visible and I made sure that my mock up with graphic placements is Normal as well.

                                                  BTW is there a global color replace?  I have three more docs to do based on the same template each with a different CYMK basic color to replace all the very dark green here.

                                                  I am trying to duplicate as closely as possible the English version of the doc.  I looked at the Confianza title with a magnifier and the dots are evident that way but not looking at it with the normal eye.  But thanks for the heads up though I'm not sure I understand the "rich black" discription.

                                                  I was fairly familiar with PhotoShop but had no experience with AI or ID before jumping into this.

                                                  Thanks again.  You've been very patient with a newbe.

                                                  • 22. Re: How to overprint one graphic on another
                                                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                    I think what you're calling dark green I'm calling rich black as it appears black on my screen. I'll admit it has a bit more yellow than the typical rich black, but I still wouldn't call it green, myself.

                                                     

                                                    Black ink, by itself, appears as a shade of gray in print when placed next to a black that is composed of a 4-color mix of CMY and K, commonly called Rich Black or Super Black. There are brobably as many formulae for waht makes a good rich black mix as there are printers and designers, but the basic principle is that anything added to black makes it darker.

                                                     

                                                    As far as a global replacement, if you have a named swatch for the color you want to substitute, and one for the color you want to replace, and that color is applied to objects, you can delete the swatch and ID will ask you for a replacement color that you can pick from your swatches list.

                                                    • 23. Re: How to overprint one graphic on another
                                                      miamidean Level 1

                                                      Great help.  Thanks, Peter.