19 Replies Latest reply: Nov 1, 2013 10:15 AM by needles27 RSS

    Premiere Pro to Speedgrade workflow

    R Neil Haugen MVP

      Apparently, if you use the direct link to Speedgrade, MOST of the Speedgrade tools ... especially ANYTHING to do with the timeline, such as separate grading layers et al ... are non-functional?

       

      Using the New Upddated Cool CC for the first time, and ... the only thing one can do it seems is make a layer in the layer palette and work within that. On a direct link, every other capability is grayed-out ... weird!

       

      Certainly doesn't seem awfully useful that way ...

       

      Neil

        • 1. Re: Premiere Pro to Speedgrade workflow
          Chad Kopec Community Member

          Agreed.

           

          I hate to stick a finger in Adobe's eye on the day of the big release, but I was hoping for more functionality regarding SpeedGrade.  As it stands, I don't know how much use I'll get out of it.

           

          Granted, I haven't had much time to play with it so I hope I just don't get it yet.  But given the locked-down nature of the new workflow, I'd have been happier if they'd just allowed SpeedGrade to import an .xml from Premiere.  Again, I may be wrong, but it doesn't look like I can import any additional formats (XDCAM, .MXF, .MP4, etc) even though they've added the MPE.  The only way to grade those formats is to begin in Premiere and use the new Direct Link.  I tried opening a Premiere sequence and then saving out as a SpeedGrade .ircp file, but no dice.

           

          There doesn't seem to be any access to the Pan & Scan or Clip tabs.  What if I want to change how my clip is interpreted?  Not in a framerate or spacial sense (I can understand how this would throw Premiere), but what about camera and LUT settings?

           

          So far, very disappointed.  I'm encouraged by the progress, but hope it continues.

          • 2. Re: Premiere Pro to Speedgrade workflow
            R Neil Haugen MVP

            Still trying to figure out what particular use this is ... if it's going to be THAT locked-down going from p-pro to Sg, such that I can't choose a layer to grade or do anything with ... or check what various layers coming in are doing ... um ... well ... .... .... .... ....

             

            There doesn't seem to be much use at all ...

             

            Neil

            • 3. Re: Premiere Pro to Speedgrade workflow
              petergaraway Adobe Employee

              If you haven't seen the demos of Direct Link and it's features please check out these vids:

               

              Adobe Premiere Pro CC & SpeedGrade CC: Direct Link

               

              http://tv.adobe.com/watch/adobe-at-ibc-2013/adobe-premiere-pro-cc-speedgrade-cc-direct-lin k/

               

               

              Color-correct Premiere Pro sequences in SpeedGrade with Direct Link

               

              http://tv.adobe.com/watch/learn-speedgrade-cc/direct-link-colorcorrection-premiere-pro-to- speedgrade/

               

               

              Peter Garaway

              Adobe

              Premiere Pro

              • 4. Re: Premiere Pro to Speedgrade workflow
                Wes Howell Community Member

                Neil,

                 

                Notice that you can now apply masks to multiple layers without the need for an additional grading layer.  You can also create adjustment layers in Premiere to act like a grading layer if that's what you're used to.

                 

                From a workflow perspective, you can now bounce back and forth between Speedgrade and Premiere with ease.   I find this very useful and powerful.

                 

                For example, you can open a project in Premiere, add stabilization, filters, crop, resizing, sharpening, softening etc and simply save and open the whole project in SG.        All of your SG work (including layers and masks) are saved as one neat filter in Premiere (titled Lumetri) and it preserves everything from SG so you can bounce back and forth whenever you like.  (keep editing, back off an extreme grade, etc)      When you re-open in SG all of your layers and masks are still there! 

                 

                The ability to skip XML exports and the associated issues brings incredible flexibility and efficiency and this feature will only get better.

                 

                It is still a new feature so please file feature requests for specific additions that you'd like to see!

                 

                Thanks for the feedback,

                 

                Wes Howell

                Adobe

                Premiere Pro

                • 5. Re: Premiere Pro to Speedgrade workflow
                  R Neil Haugen MVP

                  Wes,

                   

                  I've been over to review some of the vids, including both of the ones mentioned above ... and yes, it's very easy to go back and forth ... but having JUST learned how to really use Sg, suddenly ... I'm not supposed to use it that way no more. Strange!

                   

                  So ... apparently 'we' now grade directly on the footage? Though the vid's say you can work on timeline layers made in P-Pro (and clearly, one cannot make grading layers in Sg in a forth/back workflow) ... there is no ability to turn on/hide any of the layers on the timeline in Sg in this manner, so ... I'm really not sure exactly WHERE things go when I do something.

                   

                  Some in-depth and direct instruction on how to use P-Pro/Sg now is needed. NOW.

                   

                  Those nice generalized vids are nearly useless ... other than to give an idea so I can sit down for a couple weeks before I'm ready to actually do something strange like say, get work projects out the door?

                   

                  Neil

                  • 6. Re: Premiere Pro to Speedgrade workflow
                    shooternz Community Member

                    Reporting : Direct Link to Speedgrade is a FAIL at first hurdle for me.

                     

                    Crashes on a simple single timeline of MTS rushes footage. No effect, transitions ...nothing ...in the Premiere project.

                     

                    NO where that I can see that O.E might be the issue cos there is nothing to do in the initial "linking:  launches then promptly just crashes!

                     

                    I will park SG in the back paddock for now (and probably forever.)  Looked so promising.

                     

                    Dissapointed ...but will  watch what others experience.  MIght get interested again. Keeping an open mind.

                    • 7. Re: Premiere Pro to Speedgrade workflow
                      shooternz Community Member

                      Apology.

                       

                      I am going to swallow humble pie here and advise that ...what did not work for me was opening a previous version Premiere Project in CS7.01 and attempt to Direct Linkl it to SG ...failed.

                       

                      A NEW version CS7.1 Premiere Project worked fine. Actually ...I am impressed!

                       

                      I will look further into SG with a more open mind now.

                       

                      Hope that helps some one in case of  getting same error.

                      • 8. Re: Premiere Pro to Speedgrade workflow
                        J. Simon Community Member

                        My old project failed on the first try, but worked fine once I had SpeedGrade open.  I did have to accept the SG license on the first go, and I wonder if that had an impact, because the third try, again with SG closed, also worked just fine.

                         

                        And so did going back to PP.  Man, I'm a gonna like this...

                        • 9. Re: Premiere Pro to Speedgrade workflow
                          J. Simon Community Member

                          Just did some minor correction work on a personal project shot on the GH2 using the new Direct Link to SpeedGrade.  I like the controls SG offers me.  Plays realtime back in PP (though for some reason, not while in SG).  Exported from PP just fine, and a whole lot quicker than it would have using Colorista.

                           

                          I'm reeeeally gonna like this.

                          • 10. Re: Premiere Pro to Speedgrade workflow
                            shooternz Community Member

                            Plays realtime back in PP (though for some reason, not while in SG)

                            Change the settings in SG to suit your "horsepower"

                            • 11. Re: Premiere Pro to Speedgrade workflow
                              R Neil Haugen MVP

                              It seems to be workable ... but ... I'd just learned to work in Sg using grading layers and all the tools that are not available in DL workflow. So, this is nearly like learning to use the tool over again ... I have to think about how to do stuff.

                               

                              I've watched a ton of training stuff, though I typically do not find the Adobe ones that ... useful? ... other than as a presentation of what the software can do. After watching them, and then trying to work my own things through ... it always seems like one needs to know a lot of other things they didn't actually mention/show/demo in their vid, in order to actually get work done.

                               

                              It was strange to get into this with no warning I could see that the process was going to be very different. So now, it's learning Sg over again ... as far as developing a pattern of steps for each job. And what's more of a joy, is ... no one has training vids on the 'new' Sg, and the patterns you have to use now. I'm not the fastest a picking up something this way ... and oh my, not the most patient either ... sigh.

                               

                              Neil

                              • 12. Re: Premiere Pro to Speedgrade workflow
                                shooternz Community Member

                                I can see the grading layers.

                                 

                                Primary , Secondary etc...

                                 

                                BTW - appears that one can even work on a Premiere Adjustment Layer in SG

                                • 13. Re: Premiere Pro to Speedgrade workflow
                                  R Neil Haugen MVP

                                  shooternz,

                                   

                                  Those are the layers over to the side in the "look" window. The (apparently "old style") grading layer applied up to the timeline is not available with the DL workflow. One could put one grade over the whole project, another over this section of clips, another over this group ... and any grading layer applied on the timeline affected all the clips 'under' it.

                                   

                                  It's not available, though, in a DL process. You can use keyboard shortcuts to copy from one clip to another ... but that's it. I've not worked with it specifically, but ... I think an adjustment layer made in P-Pro before going into Sg may be used sorta the same ... ?

                                   

                                  Neil

                                  • 14. Re: Premiere Pro to Speedgrade workflow
                                    R Neil Haugen MVP

                                    Yes, if you want to use a grading layer on the timeline in Speedgrade, using the DL workflow ... you need to put an adjustment layer on the timeline in P-Pro afore going the DL to Speedgrade ... then it works like an old-style timeline grading layer.

                                     

                                    I will say ... renders out so far are certainly VASTLY faster than they used to be. Yea for that!

                                     

                                    Neil

                                    • 15. Re: Premiere Pro to Speedgrade workflow
                                      Dave Del Real Community Member

                                      Having problems with Speedgrade, just crashes on opening now. Crashes when using Direct Link from Premiere Pro as well. Tried uninstalling and trashing prefs, no luck. Help?

                                      • 16. Re: Premiere Pro to Speedgrade workflow
                                        Chad Kopec Community Member

                                        I'll have to walk back from my earlier comments a bit. 

                                         

                                        In general, I think it's going to be a good addition to my workflow.  I love the grades I can get out of SpeedGrade, and as Jim mentioned, the lumetri effect plays back much better than any of the grading plugins that give you a fraction of the results.  I think it was a brilliant move to add a lumetri look as an effect, and then have SG adjust the parameters within a Premiere timeline.  Elegant, simple.

                                         

                                        I think my initial shock came in seeing certain options were not available using this method, but the most important tools are certainly there.  What I miss is access to things like the 'Clip' tab.  While I can understand blocking access to the 'Timeline' tab (why change framerates and such when you'd do that in Premiere?), there are features in the Clip tab that seem pretty essential

                                         

                                        For instance, I can change the color space settings for individual clips.  I have a client who shoots on a Sony F55, and brought me some 4K stuff to edit/color recently.  He shot in Sony S-Log.  When previewing the footage in Premiere, he was surprised to see that Premiere was applying some sort of LUT to the footage without us asking it to (it should have been very flat, like raw footage).  While Premiere may be interpreting things correctly, I don't know this for sure.  Being able to choose S-Log in the Clip/Colorspace tab is a pretty big deal.

                                         

                                        On the other hand, let's say I accept these limitations when coming from Premiere.  I decide I will work from an exported EDL (or more favorably, an XML).  Now, I can only read a handful of supported files.  All of that great MPE goodness is gone, and I can't read MXF, MP4, etc (Again, think of my clients' F55).

                                         

                                        So, while I know I'm repeating myself, I'll say this:  Great tool.  Absolutely, without a doubt, a better way to color in Premiere.  But if you could add access to the clip tab as well as stand-alone support for more formats, it'd put it right over the top.

                                         

                                        And hats off to the Adobe guys for moving the ball very far down the field.

                                        • 17. Re: Premiere Pro to Speedgrade workflow
                                          J. Simon Community Member

                                          Having problems with Speedgrade, just crashes on opening now.

                                           

                                          That's better asked over here:

                                           

                                          http://forums.adobe.com/community/speedgrade?view=discussions

                                          • 18. Re: Premiere Pro to Speedgrade workflow
                                            J. Simon Community Member

                                            grading layer applied up to the timeline is not available with the DL workflow.

                                             

                                            I noticed that, too, and will miss that capability.  It's nice that we have Adjustment Layers in PP and can CC or grade those right in SG, but we don't always know which clips will need the same settings until we start to work on them.  It'd be nice if we could create those Layers in SG as we work, instead of having to bounce back over to PP every time we need a new Layer.

                                             

                                            Perhaps the next Feature Request...

                                            • 19. Re: Premiere Pro to Speedgrade workflow
                                              needles27 Community Member

                                              Dave Del Real wrote:

                                               

                                              Having problems with Speedgrade, just crashes on opening now. Crashes when using Direct Link from Premiere Pro as well. Tried uninstalling and trashing prefs, no luck. Help?

                                               

                                              I had the same issue - working with a legacy PPro 7.01 project crashed SG on Direct Link - and then I couldn't even get SG to open on its own.  Trashing prefs, repairing permissions didn't help.  I finally uninstalled SG and re-installed, and that did the trick.  Direct Link works now using new projects created in PPro 7.1.