7 Replies Latest reply on Dec 12, 2013 7:45 AM by mikehaywood

    Accurate video clips

    mikehaywood Level 1

      Some years ago I used the excellent Adobe Storm video editing system on which one was able to apply frame accurate clips for capture.   This meant I could select clips from a few seconds to over half an hour (sometimes over 100 of them) but the main feature was that ths was frame accuracy at both ends of the clip.   Unless I am wrong, modern editing systems (such as Adobe Premiere Elemenets or Windows Movie Maker) you simply click to start capture and click again to end capture without frame accuracy..


      Could anyone tell me what editing system I can input frame accurate clips.    Thanks.

        • 1. Re: Accurate video clips
          flyingj481 Adobe Community Professional (Moderator)

          Moved request to Premiere Elements forum.

          • 2. Re: Accurate video clips
            A.T. Romano Level 7



            I am not familiar with the Adobe Storm Editing System which you are using as a model for your question.


            For now, have you reviewed the details the Premiere Elements Capture experience. The following Adobe document contains details of it plus a video tutorial.


            http://help.adobe.com/fr_FR/premiereelements/using/WS5CDA0F91-60F1-4b79-ABF6-E9E75F498DB2. html#WSeffff8bffc802084-601fa5191337d73e4f9-8000


            Not sure if the following is of interest in this regard, but....


            The project offers choices for Timeline Display Format (See Edit Menu/Project Settings/General)



            Drop-Frame Timecode

            Non-Frame Timecode

            Frames (if you want to do frame by frame editing at the Timeline level)




            Frames (if you want to do frame by frame editing at the Timeline level)


            Please review and then let us know if any of the above targeted your question.


            Thank you.



            • 3. Re: Accurate video clips
              nealeh Level 5

              Was it the Canopus DV Storm hardware capture card you used? That was bundled with a variety of software products including Adobe Premiere.





              If that is what you are thinking of, then you might find what you are looking for in their current product range (Spark and Storm):




              Be warned though  - they don't come cheap. The Storm 3G is £1,300 ($2,100) the Elite version £3,700 ($5,900).


              Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

              • 4. Re: Accurate video clips
                mikehaywood Level 1

                Thanks Neeleh, the latest equipment you refered to is, as you rightly said, very expensive but in any case, this came out well after the Canopus Storm gear to which I referred.   The stuff I was using was as far back as the late 1990s and early 2000s and was sometimes called Rex Edit.  I was using the video card right up to last year until it was lost by a pc wiz kid.  That's what I would love to get back.   


                Having looked at various video editing software packages on sale today, I'm surprised that they almost all refer to 'capturing from DV camcorders' rather than from DV recorders or players.    In my time, a semi-pro or full pro would never edit from a camcorder - they were simply image gathering devices.  We would transfer the tape from the camcorder to a DV recorder or player (in our case pro DVCAM) and we then firewired to the Storm Edit package of the day as many clips as we liked ranging from a few seconds to over half an hour or more but the main thing is that we listed these clips into Storm at the front end by the exact hour,minute, second and frame reading from the recorder and then at the end of the clip again with the hour, minute, second and frame readings on the DV recorder's counter.   Once we were happy with these clips we just clicked a button on Storm for all clips to be captured to the timeline exactly to the frame as we wanted them.   They could be put in any order and even duplicated and If we then wanted a dissolve between two clips we could do that at a click, likewise if we wanted all the clips captured to dissolve into each other, again just a click.   Dissolves could be short or long.   


                This 1990s and early 2000s version of Adobe Storm Edit - or Rex Edit -  was so simple and so accurate for capture of clips but I can't see anything similar today.    It seems to be just 'capture' and then 'Stop capture' with no frame accuracy   


                Does this all make sense.      

                • 5. Re: Accurate video clips
                  nealeh Level 5

                  My take on it would be that modern equipment is so much more powerful that the workflows have changed from that which you describe to a capture then trim flow. In Elements you could consider the Organizer the replacement for your DV Recorder - in that it collects all your clips. These clips can then be added to multiple projects and individually sized, in each of those projects, at frame level with simple cutting tools. You can set a default length for Dissolves in Preferences> General.


                  [EDIT] Oops - meant to include this link to the Help file for detail on copying your transitions to multiple clips - http://help.adobe.com/en_US/premiereelements/using/WS09e4b3c48f3a79fc19b622510385d4355c-7e 5d.html


                  Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children


                  If this post or another user's post resolves the original issue, please mark the posts as correct and/or helpful accordingly. This helps other users with similar trouble get answers to their questions quicker. Thanks.

                  • 6. Re: Accurate video clips
                    mikehaywood Level 1

                    Hi Neale, many thanks for taking the time to respond which is very helpful.  I will do as you advise and look forward to getting these accurate clips.  Best regards,  Mike Haywood

                    • 7. Re: Accurate video clips
                      mikehaywood Level 1

                      Hello ATR, many thanks for taking the trouble to reply with regard to capturing FRAME ACCURATE clips.  You said (under the PAL system) "'if you want to do frame by frame editing at the Timeline level"  etc. ...but this is the exact point I'm trying to sort out - the problem of producing frame accurate clips to a timeline.


                      I'm old enough to have done a great deal of editing as far back as the late 1980s and early 1990s producing low budget video projects which were edited on Adobe's Storm/Rex edit software and with (I think) a Canopus card, sourced from a Sony DVCAM pro recorder connected to the pc by firewire.  The point is, however, I was able to make frame accurate clips at both ends of the clip BEFORE capture to the timeline - in fact before any capture with this excellent and easy Adobe system.


                      On this system I was able to list as many video clips as I liked (frequently over 100 and of any duration from a few seconds) by using the recorders controls and taking the hour, minute, second and frame reading from the recorder at the start and end of each clip and these readings were then entered and duplicated on the pc.  Every clip was therefore exactly to the frame at the beginning and end as I wanted it.  (I could also, at that stage, delete any clips)    I then clicked 'Capture' on the pc which would then control the recorder to the exact clip setting (I don't think there was any pre-roll) and all those clips appeared in columns on the main screen but still not on the timeline.    I then dragged down to the timeline all the clips in any order, moreover, I could repeat the same clip as many times as I liked in any part of the timeline. There was no clipping the clips after dragging to the timeline as every clip was already frame accurate.   I could then get on with the business of dissolve transitions, titles and so on, equally so easy to do. 


                      Many editing systems now seem to require you to simply START capture and then STOP capture without any frame accuracy (with some requiring you to start a few frames before and a few frames after the required clip)    Once on the timeline, tools are then provided to make final adjustments to the clip.    It all seems so finicky and complicated when compared to the very simple process of the old system and I am wondering if I've got it all wrong and there is an easy pre-timeline system of obtaining frame accurate clips on the latest Premiere systems. (A helpful member of the community suggested I use Premiere's 'Organiser' facility with timecode to act as the recorder to produce frame accurate clips but I just could'nt understand how this worked)