8 Replies Latest reply: Nov 15, 2013 8:30 AM by Arnis Gubins RSS

    ghost styles? jinxed searches?

    FieryPantone Community Member

      I come to the conclusion there's something I don't understand about FM searches … by scrutinising .mif copies of existing .fm files, I have discovered a redundant style.

      FM knows it's there – because saving the relevant .book as .pdf throws a warning about a missing font that's only used in this style – and admits it in the paragraph catalogue:

      tagInCatalog.png

       

      On the other hand, FM steadfastly the style denies exists if I search on Paragraph Tag (virtuously checking body pages, master pages and reference pages) in the files concerned.

      tagInSearch.png

       

      Does Find Paragraph Tag actually mean "find paragraph tag as long as it's applied to some text"? That would be rather limiting.

        • 1. Re: ghost styles? jinxed searches?
          mattrsullivan Community Member

          Perhaps you need something added to the available search choices, but I'd prefer to describe Find Paragraph Tag as Find Text with a Specific Paragraph Tag, which I find indispensable.

           

          To remove the ghost tag in Fm11, try using the options in your Paragraph Catalog to display or delete unused tags.

          Screenshot 2013-11-08 09.09.26.png

           

          -Matt

          • 2. Re: ghost styles? jinxed searches?
            Arnis Gubins CommunityMVP

            Niels,

             

            The FM Find function searches through the content in the flows only. Something defined in a Catalog, but not used in a flow, can not be found his way. As Matt indicates, you need to use the tools available for the repsective catalog to remove the unwanted definitions.

            • 3. Re: ghost styles? jinxed searches?
              FieryPantone Community Member

              Thanks for refining and clarifying my mental model here!

              • 4. Re: ghost styles? jinxed searches?
                FieryPantone Community Member
                1. open document
                2. delete all unused formats, using paragraph catalog pane
                3. notice unused formats persisting in paragraph catalog
                4. save to .mif and examine content: <PgfTag `{name}'> is defined, but never used …

                Not what I'd been hoping for :-{

                • 5. Re: ghost styles? jinxed searches?
                  Bob Niland (Error 7103) Community Member

                  > save to .mif and examine content: <PgfTag `{name}'> is defined, but never used …

                   

                  Assuming by "defined" you mean it appears in

                  <PgfCatalog

                  What happens when you delete that structure from the MIF, save and re-open?

                   

                  The catalog deletion would be everything from:

                  <Pgf

                    <PgfTag `{name}'>

                  ... to ...

                  > # end of Pgf

                  • 6. Re: ghost styles? jinxed searches?
                    FieryPantone Community Member

                    I think I've got it … It seems from (even) closer examination of the .mif that a change of font had somehow snuck in to a footer, and/or been left there like a paperback on a train seat after design changes.

                      <ParaLine 
                       <Font 
                        <FTag `!bold1'>
                        <FLocked No>
                       > # end of Font
                       <Variable
                       >VariableName `Running H/F 1'>
                        >Unique 1010486>
                       > # end of Variable
                      > # end of ParaLine
                    

                    Presumably, the presence of the variable is enough to win the FTag a place in the catalog but not enough to make it show up in a search? I may experiment to see what happens if I add a <Default ¶ Font> after the variable, but I'm already happy to have identified what feels like a consistent, apparent discrepancy and know how to deal with it.

                    • 7. Re: ghost styles? jinxed searches?
                      FieryPantone Community Member

                      Also and farthermore … if there's a table style defined that refers to a paragraph style, that seems to be enough to include the paragraph style in the catalog.

                      • 8. Re: ghost styles? jinxed searches?
                        Arnis Gubins CommunityMVP

                        Niels,

                         

                        In your case, the character tag is applied to the variable, but not used as part of the variable definition.

                         

                        Named styles can be used anywhere in the document markup, even if they aren't declared in the catalogs. This is both an advantage and disadvantage with FM.

                         

                        FM will not search within variable or cross-ref definitions, but you can tell FM to search explicitly within marker text. This is a UI design-flaw IMHO.

                         

                        Tables are quite notorious for also storing formatting information (but not the tag names, rather explicit format declarations) in the first rows of the heading and body of every table.