35 Replies Latest reply on Nov 13, 2013 3:30 PM by Peter Spier

    Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?

    rexprints Level 1

      Students who bought Creative Cloud are getting messages that their files (Id, with other CS linked files) won't open in CS6 here at the college. If they go home and save the files as CS6, work on them here, what are the consequences of them working on them again under CS7?

        • 1. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
          Sumit Singh Adobe Employee

          Hi rexprints,

          Please refer to the following help document walk you through "How to open InDesign files to prvious version".

          http://helpx.adobe.com/indesign/kb/save-indesign-files-previous-versions.html

           

          Hope this helps.

          Please let me know in case of any other question.

           

          Regards,

          Sumit Singh

          • 2. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
            rexprints Level 1

            That half-helps. I understand that down-grading a file can lose some features. So what I'm asking is, to avoid the loss and the possible problems going up- and downgrading as versions cycle through college and home sessions (to say nothing of cross-platform and linkage issues), is it possible to do the original file in CS6 and keep it in CS6. That's to say, open it in CS7 without upgrading, or creating a new file in CS7 as a CS6 file.

              This represents a basic issue in version control and maintaining file integrity.

            • 3. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
              BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

              There is no CS7. The newest version is CC

               

              If you have Creative Cloud you have CS6 and CC available to you.

               

              Use CS6 if you need to work on a machine that only has CS6.

              • 4. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                BTW, in order to install CS6 from Creative Cloud, log into creative.adobe.com. Click the download center link and then find InDesign.

                 

                Click the InDesign link and scroll down to the in this version section. Click the drop down menu and select CS6.

                 

                You can now download and install CS6.

                • 5. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                  Why not download CS6 as well on the machine that has CC installed? As far as I know, even educational licenses can do that, so they don't have to keep cycling through versions.

                   

                  There are differences in the text engines from version to version that can cause text to reflow, changing line endings and sometimes causing oversets. This is typically more troublesome in long docs with longer stories since the problems may not be apparent on the page where editing is occurring. Opening .idml always recomposes using the text engine in the current version, but opeing a legacy .indd file in a newer version will not recompose a story until you touch it in some way, further obscuring potential problems.

                   

                  We also see a fair number of reports of problems, sometimes fatal, that devleop in legacy files that are opened in versions newer than CS4. It doesn't happen with every file, and I cannot tell you what sort of predictor there might be because so far the only pattern I've seen is that these files have been converted. exporting from the legacy version to .idml seems to reduce the risk, and for that reason I recommend doing so for any conversions, rather than opening the .indd directly in the new version.

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                    rexprints Level 1

                    Screen grab says there is a 7. I've had two students with the same issue.

                    CS7failNotice.png

                    • 7. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                      the dialogs were written before the naming was finalized. CS7 is CC.

                      1 person found this helpful
                      • 8. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                        BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                        That error was baked in before the decision to drop the CS name was made.

                        1 person found this helpful
                        • 9. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                          rexprints Level 1

                          Thanks Peter and Bob. As always, you helped.

                           

                          Now, if only a project could be created in the legacy version rather than saved to it. First do it and then ruin it? I'd rather do it once in Pagemaker 1.0 than build a time bomb in CSx+n.

                           

                          So that re-opens the question. Why is CC CS6 and higher version than our purchased CS6? Id is, for example, v 8.0.2 at the college. How much different could student versions be? Why an error message between CS6 and CS6-CC?

                          • 10. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                            Once again, a cloud subscription includes CS6. You just have to download and install it and you can work in that instead of CC.

                            • 11. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                              BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                              What the students should do at this point is to install CS6, open the

                              current project in CC and save as IDML. Open that in CS6 and continue to

                              use it that.

                               

                              But at a certain point the school is going to have to move to CC.

                              Someone should be exploring those options.

                              • 12. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                                BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                I feel like there's an echo in here.

                                • 13. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                  It's your imagination...nation...nation...nation...nation...nation...

                                  • 14. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                                    rexprints Level 1

                                    PeterBobBobPeter. That solution won't work on two levels, besides not making sense; CS6 should be CS6 whether in the cloud or purchased. (Maybe the nomenclature CS7 wasn't such a bad idea.)

                                     

                                    Beyond that, firstly, we are trying to avoid going up and down in versioning the files and software for reasons Peter mentioned above. A project will cycle from purchased to sub' version and back again X times, getting more goofed up every time, one may assume.

                                    Secondly, the college, and with many other organizations, does not see buying and subscriptions as the same sort of thing at all. In the case of my large college district, getting a subscription, especially under Perkins funding, is a dead issue. I can't subscribe to a trade magazine, let alone software. You might mention that to Mr Adobe next time you see him.

                                    • 15. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                      I think you missed the point. Your STUDENTS can install CS6 at no extra cost so there is no need to ever open or save the files in a newer version.

                                      • 16. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                                        BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                        It doesn't matter to me one way or the other but at a certainly point

                                        paying students are going to demand that you be teaching with the most

                                        up to date tools. Subscription software is where everything is heading

                                        and it will happen soon rather than later.

                                         

                                        You might want to mention that to the Dean the next time you see him.

                                        • 17. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                                          rexprints Level 1

                                          Quite so. I am missing the point. Isn't CC (which is not CS7) the same version as CS6, when both are fully updated? Don't tell me purchased versions don't update at the same time and to the same software as the cloud version. If Adobe products aren't compatible with themselves, my head will explode. (I must have a copy of PageMaker 1.0 around here somewhere. I produced bank annual reports on that primitive puppy. It seems now I couldn't have a commercial printer output a CC file if they have "owned" software. That's not incentive, it's an offer they can't refuse.)

                                          • 18. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                            No. CS6 is version 8, CC, which would have been CS7 had they not changed the naming convention again, is version 9. Subscribers to Creative Cloud get both, but it isn't obvious if you don't know where to look for CS6.

                                             

                                            It get more confusing because CS6 was the current version when the Creative Cloud concept was launched, and it was avaialble (and still is) as a perpetual license, or by subscription to Creative Cloud. Many subscribers don't seem to realize that there is anewer version that is not just an update to the original CS6 they started with. Eventually there will probably be an upgrade significant enough to be version 10, but what they'll call it is anyone's guess.

                                            • 19. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                                              BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                              I gave you the directions to download and install CS6 from Creative

                                              Cloud earlier.

                                               

                                              Give those directions to the students.

                                               

                                              As for the printer, while I rarely do print work anymore, the last time

                                              I sent a native file to a printer was 1997 or so. I only send PDFs.

                                              • 20. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                                                rexprints Level 1

                                                You may need some schooling on schooling. I can mention it to the Dean, but he's quite busy and this is not his department. This is a purchasing policy set at a level well beyond any academic's pay grade. We could make an adventure, or challenge, or crusade out of it, and I have on other similar issues, such as service contracts which are (perversely) required for hardware that is obsolete during the contract period.

                                                  The case at hand bears on a common accounting principle. Owning is an asset. Leasing is a liability. I love to go where everything is headed, unless it's up against a wall.

                                                 

                                                  We taught on CS1 until last semester. Really. We finally got a grant to upgrade from CS1 and PPC Macs. It will be a long time before we upgrade again. That's typical of colleges, just ask.

                                                  The students can demand what they want, but they're glad (and at this point, lucky) to get into a class at all. Our college runs at >100% enrollment, with salaries frozen for years and no expansion of programs, including upgrades. The students graduate with crushing debt, so a one year rental contract is not something they want to sign up for, even if it costs less nine months after they've taken the class, a calculation I'm sure you'll understand. (They used to buy the CS Premium package through Adobe for $354 outright or get it ways we won't mention.) Economic reality really should play a part in Adobe's revenue model.

                                                • 21. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                                                  BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                  This screenshot should help. Once you've gotten to the InDesign product page:

                                                   

                                                  id cs6.png

                                                  • 22. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                                                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                    I used to teach, and still volunteer at my local community college, so I know what you mean (though we upgraded the software, and some hardware, more frequently, using every current version up to CS6, though usually not as soon as it was released, since a hallmark of the community college system is that it's really job training, and our students were exposed to waht they would be seeing in the real world). The volume licensing was a pretty good deal for the hundreds of seats licensed betweenthe classrooms and the lab.

                                                     

                                                    But isn't an education subscription now less expensive for a year than buying the suite license used to be? I suppose the argument is that the perpetual license didn't stop working after the end of the year, and that's a pretty important point, but for those who are serious a subscription is still a realtively inexpensive, and predictable cost, in line with text books, if anyone buys those anymore.

                                                    • 23. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                                                      rexprints Level 1

                                                      So the versioning cloud (common meaning of the word) that Peter attempted to explain above doesn't pertain to Acrobat? And a collaborative project between a photographer, a studio, and a freelancer wouldn't end up in the version 8 which is version 7 but is version 9 condition Peter lays out?

                                                       

                                                      I'm not trying to be a butt head, here, Bob and Peter. But I do look like a smacked *** in front of my students after telling them they really need CS whatever (let's not get into that again), having bought CS6 in good faith a week before CC was announced and the college's once-every-five-years upgrade got side tracked.

                                                       

                                                      When the dominant graphics company has a product "many subscribers don't seem to realize" has been upgraded, with upgrades being pushed through the activation/registration system, we have a problem. On this we have an understanding, no?

                                                      • 24. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                                                        BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                        With the academic license, a year of CC is cheaper than a semester of

                                                        text books. The monthly rate of $29.99 is certainly cheaper than a

                                                        couple visits to Starbucks. And therein lies the problem for schools.

                                                        How can they demand that students buy outdated software for way more

                                                        than they could subscribe to new versions?

                                                         

                                                        You can argue this til the cows come home but perpetual licenses are not

                                                        coming back.

                                                        • 25. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                                                          BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                          Well, you've come to the right place for information but Acrobat is

                                                          different animal so let's not go there.

                                                           

                                                          CS6 was announced in April 2012. Later that year Creative Cloud was

                                                          announced which allowed users to avoid a large upfront fee and subscribe

                                                          instead. It became obvious at a certain point to management that two

                                                          licensing systems wasn't going to work and the decision was made to move

                                                          to a subscription only model for what would have been CS7.

                                                           

                                                          All of the branding was changed and the CSxx name was dropped in favor

                                                          of CC for all of the new releases earlier this year. As part of that,

                                                          the CS6 application remain as part of the subscription.

                                                           

                                                          Anyone wanting a perpetual license can still buy CS6 but that's the end

                                                          of the road. No new features and a crapshoot once the next generation of

                                                          operating systems roll around.

                                                           

                                                          Does that help?

                                                          • 26. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                                                            rexprints Level 1

                                                            You could easily make the argument that Adobe CS costs less than a student's mobile phone. It costs about as much as many classes' book or supply list. Even I would make that argument, as perhaps somebody did to Mr Adobe. However, these are students. They hold on to the phone and talk into it. They open the book. What do they get with a one year contract for software they need for a few months? Software? Know your public. The internet wants to be free, so expecting students to buy what's on a screen (overwhelmingly free) as a license to use for time certain is a loser idea. Adobe is working in a Youtube monetization model, which only the most "serious" (business owners) will support, not students. Very few bought the $345 CS Premium, fewer are going for the sub' deal. Times are hard.

                                                             

                                                            Ah, we've gotten into the weeds. Glad to hear you've had experience teaching. It's a great learning experience! I've got to get back to school and teach 'em a lesson.

                                                            • 27. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                                                              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                              Is the ed licensing also available on a month-to-month basis? The full suite is definitely a better deal, especially at student pricing, but if all they need is ID, then they can get that as a full commercial subscription for $20/mo for just the months they want it.

                                                               

                                                              Besides being in a world of its own and on a different release schedule, Acrobat doesn't suffer from the same backward compatiblity issues as ID.

                                                              • 28. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                                                                rexprints Level 1

                                                                I'm telling you? The CC sub  is $20/month x 12, w/ 50% penalty for shorting the contract. As I said, from a sales point of view, it's not the money, it's the value. The 20-somethings in my class don't blink at a $5 Starbucks, but they drink that. They spend all day on social media for free. For a graphics class, all they need is Ai, Ps, Id, and Acrobat, not the gob of other stuff in CC like Br. So if they are taking the classes for their major, they'll buy reluctantly, but it's mostly general ed or elective, so their more likely to come in for a open studio hours as needed. I don't know how CC's sales figures are doing, but I don't share the conviction that subscription is the way of the future. The future changes often and radically, for one thing. Annual membership to a web-based service is a shakey business model for a commodity, and much of free-lance and student use is more of an as-needed commodity than line-item business expense.

                                                                 

                                                                Been nice chatting. I appreciate Adobe's prompt response in these fora, rather than searching knowledge base or user group threads.

                                                                • 29. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                                                                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                                  The reason these fora are so good is none of us work for Adobe -- we're user volunteers. And for the record, I prefer the perpetual license model, too, but I understand I'm a disnosaur, and my work doesn't require the newer features in CC.

                                                                  • 30. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                                                                    rexprints Level 1

                                                                    So, as I understand (having only used CS6, not CC) downloading CS6 with a CC license will allow User to create, open, or re-open a file as CS6, compatible with updated "perpetual license" CS6 software but not necessarily with CC (CS7 "Cannot Open" error).

                                                                      Setting aside issues of up-and down-grading a flle as it goes through revision cycles and team members, how does User know what software version of Ai, Ps, Id, or (dare I ask) Acrobat? Is there a way to protect a file, to make it, shall we say, agnostic, so that it stays at the lowest version it is opened in (hopefully with warnings and some sort of history).

                                                                      As I understand it, a file that goes through an IDML  or CS/CC conversion in the workflow may have changes. Peter mentions text-fitting, and I'd guess transparency issues may ensue. There's no version-tracking feature, so this seems to be a problem I have add to my list of usual suspects, right?

                                                                    • 31. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                                                                      BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                                      rexprints wrote:

                                                                       

                                                                      So, as I understand (having only used CS6, not CC) downloading CS6 with a CC license will allow User to create, open, or re-open a file as CS6, compatible with updated "perpetual license" CS6 software but not necessarily with CC (CS7 "Cannot Open" error).

                                                                      CS6 whether a perpetual license or through Creative Cloud subscription is identical. There's a script floating around that will identify an InDesign file version without needing InDesign installed. Peter has a link I believe so hang in until he gets back.

                                                                       

                                                                      Given that the school has CS6, your students with CC subscriptions should follow the instructions I gave you previously for downloading and installing CS6. They will likely have issues with Illustrator as well and should do the same thing. Photoshop shouldn't be as much of an issue and Acrobat isn't an issue.

                                                                      • 32. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                                                                        rexprints Level 1

                                                                        First, thank you for your patience. I'm slow, even for a professor of creative services, I know.

                                                                          What I am now understanding is that CS6 is the same whether in CC or owned, so the inability to reopen files in CS6 (owned) after they've been opened in CC is not a version (CS7, not) issue but a licensing issue.  In that case, there should be no incompatibility issues, such as text fitting, assuming all software is updated.

                                                                        • 33. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                                                                          BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                                          Incorrect this time. It is very much a version issue. I think Peter

                                                                          pointed this out earlier but the internal version number for CS6 is 8

                                                                          and the internal version number for CC is 9.

                                                                           

                                                                          No earlier version of InDesign can open the INDD file from a later

                                                                          version. IDML is the way back but can result in text reflow due to text

                                                                          engine differences and any new features will be lost or badly mangled.

                                                                          Since CC can save all the way back to CS4 the results will get worse the

                                                                          further back you go.

                                                                          • 34. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                                                                            rexprints Level 1

                                                                            I re-read Peter's post (18) and I do believe I understand. It took both of you a long time, so I'm very grateful. I'm not happy with Adobe, but I am grateful to you both.

                                                                              I bought my copy and the college's copies a few weeks before CC was announced. The upgrade was not made clear to me until just now. It's too late for me and a moot point for the college to consider changing our licensing arrangement, but at least I'm only disappointed and not ignorant. Thanks again.

                                                                            • 35. Re: Will CS7 files saved as legacy CS6 be ok re-saved as CS7?
                                                                              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                                              The main thing to warn your students about is that CC (CS7/Version 9 or whatever you feel like calling the one after the CS6 version the school is using and is only available as a subscription) will quite happliy open files from all previous versions, and if they do that and save them as .indd files they will not open again in the school labs. The only path back to CS6 will be .idml. Much better for all concerned to just work in CS6.

                                                                               

                                                                              The script Bob mentioned is at Adobe Forums: [Ann] Identify Your InDesign File