7 Replies Latest reply: Nov 15, 2013 9:13 AM by jdanek RSS

    HELP! Colour Profiles

    RaeRae79 Community Member

      Hi there,

       

      Please help! I have been asked by a client to design a leaflet for his business, it's pretty standard and he wanted colours that are used in his l

       

      His logo was designed in Photoshop and I asked for the original file but he only had a high res jpeg and a flattened PSD. I asked for the Pantone or CMYK values but was just given web values so I colour matched the colours used in the logo and transported the jpeg into InDesign and just carried on laying the leaflet out as I normally would using the CMYK colour match values. I sent him the proof and he said he wanted the colours changed as they weren't bright enough. When I looked at the Photoshop file again he was right, the original colour is much brighter. Changed the colour profile I was working in (Which was RGB) to CMYK. The colour in the logo immediately looked brighter so I matched that colour and it matched to an RGB colour so I changed all the colours to the RGB colour (even though I wanted to work in CMYK) which looked much more like the original logo colour.
      However when I proof the colours it turns back to the duller colour. Does anyone know what is causing this problem? I have never encountered it before? Is it because it was designed using web values or am i working in the wrong profile? How do I change it so that the colour looks the same on the print document as it does on the PSD logo?

       

      I need a quick turn around on this and am out of my depth at the moment! I have just set up Freelance as I was made redundant from my last job and I haven't ever encountered this before. Hoping one of you knows how to help.....I'm working in CC

       

      Looking forward to hearing your replies,

       

      Many thanks in advance

        • 1. Re: HELP! Colour Profiles
          jdanek Community Member

          When you open the reference file, is there an embedded profile ( i.e., sRGB, ProPHOTO RGB, etc. )?  This subject is very technical, but I will try to help you along.  I understand your frustration because your situation ( should not be ) is somewhat typical where client has unrealistic expectations.  Because you are working in an ultimately print workflow, the file will eventually be printed and the result will be a reflective color environment based on lighting and paper. Client has been seeing his logo in a transmissive color environment ( i.e., web browsers ).  This is ***-backwards ( pardon my french ).  You are going to have to squeeze all of the color gamut out of that reference file and try to retain as much of it as possible.  I would attempt this by opening the original reference file and assign a fairly wide gamut to it ( i.e., Adobe RGB ).  In InDesign use all Best color presets you can get your hands on.  Save a copy of the original reference file saved with a decent profile and convert a copy to an appropriate CMYK color space profile.  What are your application Color Settings?  It could be that the reference file was saved in sRGB color space, which looks good in a web browser, but gets clipped dramatically upon conversion and/or print.  Once you have opened in Adobe RGB and converted to CMYK, you can ( as an option ) adjust the color curves to get better color.

          • 2. Re: HELP! Colour Profiles
            RaeRae79 Community Member

            Thank you for your reply. After further research yes the logo was originally created in RGB for web and a sign (Signs use Ral colours or something similar I think so might have been able to get a better match) I cannot seem to get a better match than the one I already have but I have a disappointed client now and as the logo was created by someone who wasn't thinking of print considerations the client has seen his colour on screen and assumes that he can have the same colour in print. I will try your suggestion. Thank you very much again.

            • 3. Re: HELP! Colour Profiles
              RaeRae79 Community Member

              When I open the source file (psd) and look at 'assign profiles' it says 'don't colour manage this document' that is the option that is checked. The RGB profile is Adobe RGB 1998 how would I look for any embedded profiles? The client says that he has had business cards printed with accurate colour match so it must be possible but I was up for hours last night trying to work it out with no success.

              • 4. Re: HELP! Colour Profiles
                jdanek Community Member

                It's difficult to recommend anything without seeing the file.  If possible, attach the .psd to your post.  InDesign has application color settings.  If you have Adobe Bridge, you can synch all of your application color settings there.  I am concerned about an obvious shift where it is obvious to the customer.  He says the business cards match, but in reality they may not.  The way things are going, he will continue to run into problems matching color further on even if he does business with someone else.  When you open the PSD in Photoshop, assign the Adobe RGB there and save it under a new name so you know in the furture it is Adobe RGB.  Forget the JPEG ( use it for web only ).  I am assuming the file is PSD because it needs to be PSD for whatever reason.  In InDesign, set your CMYK workspace to an appropriate profile ( like SWOP Coated v2 ).  Now, if the file is so dulled down that it is noticeable, then you could adjust the "CMYK" curves to brighten it a bit.  This is an excellent opportunity to gain some more work ( if possible ) with this client.  That will require educating him/her in the proper logo production techniques.  No way should a logo be produced in Photoshop and especially RGB color space.  You've been in the business long enough to know what the proper procedures are.  If they are unwilling to invest in a rock solid solution, then it may be better to reject their business and move on.  Client is basicly blaming you for their mistakes.  The frustration is that the client likes monitor color which is an illusion.  At this point, client has to be more cooperative and lead you to their business card printer so you can investigate what they received from said client as a file and in what color space using what profile.  If printer accepted an RGB based file, ask them for their workflow requirements and file parameters.  This should give you a little more background so you can beging to build a solid foundation for said client's corporate identity.  If their vendor, along with themselves, refuse to cooperate, then forget them.  It's in their best interest to supply you with everything you need to accomplish whatever outlandish color they were able to achieve.

                • 5. Re: HELP! Colour Profiles
                  jdanek Community Member

                  When you open the ( PSD ) file in Photoshop, use the Eyedropper tool to get a read on some of the areas of the logo ( enlarge it on screen to do this ).  Have your info palette open and check the CMYK and RGB colors for out-of-gamut color ( usually you will see a triangle with an exclamation point next to the read ).

                  Let me know what you find when you do that.

                  • 6. Re: HELP! Colour Profiles
                    RaeRae79 Community Member

                    Hi, thank you so much for responding. I have tried what you suggested and have got the best colour possible, it is still duller than the original but I'm sure it's the best that can be achieved. I contacted my printers who basically said the same as you, that this is a common problem with the colour they are trying to achieve as CMYK is a smaller colour space than RGB. I forwarded the Email to the client and he has agreed to go for the adjusted colour, which is a relief. I would really like to redesign the logo for him to be honest but I know he likes the brighter colour and has already used it on his sign so I think he will keep that one and just have to accept that the duller colour will have to be used in print material. He has asked me to do some more work for him after Christmas so I will work on the same principle then. It is frustrating as I don't know who designed the logo but you're right it should never have been designed in Photoshop or in RGB/Hex it and I am a kind of a branding purist, I am very particular about consistency accross a brand. Thank you very much for your help. I am not very technical and like I said I haven't encountered this problem before, if nothing else this has been a learning experience for me, thank you for explaining clearly, I thought at first it was me doing something wrong! Thanks again.

                    • 7. Re: HELP! Colour Profiles
                      jdanek Community Member

                      I get a sense the logo is a little more complicated than it should be.  Sign shop can do very nice work, but it is their responsibility to attain accurate color where possible.  Client is winging-it.  By accurate color I mean standard color reproduction.  If client wants you to do more work it is time for a sit-down.  You have to plead your case that he must trust you to deliver optimum results.  Forget about the problems with the logo, they probably will be turned-off by that.  Instead, walk them through the power of their brand and the ability to maintain consistency in all media.  Otherwise they will continue to have misrepresentations n the marketplace.  I assume you've done this before, so I will not outline what is required to do that.  However, explain to said client that a brand guide would solve a slew of problems in their marketing communications.  I also get a sense that client is small and may not see the value of investing time and money in investing in a rock solid foundation.  If so, their building will continue to fall down.