18 Replies Latest reply on Nov 21, 2013 5:32 AM by Danny Whitehead.

    Low tint range of an image or low transparency level without changing tonalities.

    aparanae Level 1

      Hello,

       

      I wonder if it's possible to low the tint level of a color image.

       

      For example, I'm designing a letterhead and I want an image on the background, obviously kind of watermarking the paper. I tried lowing the transparency of it, and it actually looks ok, but just in InDesign. When I export it to PDF it seems to change the tonality of the colors.

       

      test.jpg

       

      As you can see, there's a difference in tone between the ID Preview and the PDF document. I actually want it like it's shown in ID because it matches better with the logo colors. What can I do to keep it like that?

       

      My Image is an Illustrator file, and I'm using ID CS6 in Mac.

        • 1. Re: Low tint range of an image or low transparency level without changing tonalities.
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          My first reaction would be that you are exporting to PDF using a setting that flattens transparency and you have a mismatch betweenthe color mode of the image and the Transparency Flattener Blend Space.

          • 2. Re: Low tint range of an image or low transparency level without changing tonalities.
            aparanae Level 1

            Hi Peter,

             

            I somehow cannot see your post in this thread (not sure if it's only me).

             

            Screenshot 2013-11-19 at 03.40.49 nachm..png

             

            However I read your reply from my e-mail notification:

             

            "My first reaction would be that you are exporting to PDF using a setting that flattens transparency and you have a mismatch betweenthe color mode of the image and the Transparency Flattener Blend Space."

             

            I am relatively new to InDesign, so I don't really know much about the technicall stuff. I've already heard about this flattening thing, and I googled a bit and tried some things, but the only changes I got on the PDFs look worse. Not only the design still conserves that undesired red tone, but now I can also see some white lines on it.

             

            Could you or anybody help me or guide me on how to do this if that is really the problem?

             

            Thanks in advance.

            • 3. Re: Low tint range of an image or low transparency level without changing tonalities.
              aparanae Level 1

              Oh, now I can see your post... I replied before anyway

              • 4. Re: Low tint range of an image or low transparency level without changing tonalities.
                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                The website is temporarily offline, so it will be a bit before I get back to you with more details, but it sounds from your last post like my first reaction was incorrect, and there may be a CMYK conversion happening.

                 

                Try an export to PDF/X-4..

                 

                What color mode is the image?

                • 5. Re: Low tint range of an image or low transparency level without changing tonalities.
                  aparanae Level 1

                  No change in this new export. It looks like the picture I posted at the beginning.

                   

                  I imported an AI file into the InDesign document. This Illustrator file is CMYK.

                  • 6. Re: Low tint range of an image or low transparency level without changing tonalities.
                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                    What does InDesign look like if you turn on Overprint Preview in the View menu?

                     

                    What program are you using to view the PDF?

                    • 7. Re: Low tint range of an image or low transparency level without changing tonalities.
                      aparanae Level 1

                      Peter Spier wrote:

                       

                      What does InDesign look like if you turn on Overprint Preview in the View menu?

                      It looks the way I don't want it to look, with that warm red.

                       

                      Peter Spier wrote:

                       

                      What program are you using to view the PDF?

                      Adobe Acrobat X (v.10.1.8)

                      • 8. Re: Low tint range of an image or low transparency level without changing tonalities.
                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                        Is there an embedded color profile in the Illustrator file?

                         

                        Overprint preview is showing you what to expect in a CMYK output using the current CMYK working space assigned to the document, so the problem is either that the image preview is just plain inaccurate (when not in overprint preview) or the color numbers are not being interpreted in the correct profile, which might happen if there is no profile embedded and the illustrator file was created in a different working space, or simply that ID isn't really rendering the transparency properly in the regular view (though it really should switch to the higher quality preview when transparency is introduced).

                         

                        Bit of a puzzle at the moment...

                        1 person found this helpful
                        • 9. Re: Low tint range of an image or low transparency level without changing tonalities.
                          aparanae Level 1

                          Peter Spier wrote:

                           

                          Is there an embedded color profile in the Illustrator file?

                           

                          Hm, if you mean if I saved the AI file marking the option "Embed ICC Profile", then yes. Otherwise I don't really know what should I look for and how (Sorry, I'm not an advanced user ).

                           

                           

                          Peter Spier wrote:

                           

                          Overprint preview is showing you what to expect in a CMYK output using the current CMYK working space assigned to the document, so the problem is either that the image preview is just plain inaccurate (when not in overprint preview) or the color numbers are not being interpreted in the correct profile, which might happen if there is no profile embedded and the illustrator file was created in a different working space, or simply that ID isn't really rendering the transparency properly in the regular view (though it really should switch to the higher quality preview when transparency is introduced).

                           

                          At the beginning I created an AI file experimenting some designs, which was also a CMYK file. Then I copied one of the designs and pasted it into a new single file, to use it in ID. I don't know if showing you the color settings help. Both files have the same values.

                           

                          alone.png

                           

                           

                          Ah btw, talking about Overprint Preview, I realized that I have the same problem in Illustrator when I change the transparency of my design and see it on Overprint Preview.

                           

                          Peter Spier wrote:

                           

                          Bit of a puzzle at the moment...

                           

                          Oh don't worry, I appreciate a lot that you tried to help

                          • 10. Re: Low tint range of an image or low transparency level without changing tonalities.
                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                            OK, first thing is you'll probably find your work easier if you go to Bridge and synchronize your color settings (though it won't afect the profiles assigned to any existing work, it will mean that all new files across all Adobe apps will open with the same default working profiles, which you can change if you need to for a special case).

                             

                            Second, I was about to ask what happens in Illustrator if you lower the opacity, and you've said you get the same thing. I think that's telling us that the color really does fade that much and you may need to make a second image to get the transparent colors you want.

                             

                            Are the colors correct in Illustrator and ID with 100% opacity and Overprint Preview on?

                            1 person found this helpful
                            • 11. Re: Low tint range of an image or low transparency level without changing tonalities.
                              aparanae Level 1

                              Peter Spier wrote:

                               

                              OK, first thing is you'll probably find your work easier if you go to Bridge and synchronize your color settings (though it won't afect the profiles assigned to any existing work, it will mean that all new files across all Adobe apps will open with the same default working profiles, which you can change if you need to for a special case).

                               

                              Ok, I just did it.

                               

                               

                              Peter Spier wrote:

                               

                              Second, I was about to ask what happens in Illustrator if you lower the opacity, and you've said you get the same thing. I think that's telling us that the color really does fade that much and you may need to make a second image to get the transparent colors you want.

                               

                              What do you mean with a second image? A new file or just an overlapping object with different color/transparency/blending mode?

                               

                               

                              Peter Spier wrote:

                               

                              Are the colors correct in Illustrator and ID with 100% opacity and Overprint Preview on?

                               

                              Yes, they are both correct with 100% opacity in Overprint Preview.

                              • 12. Re: Low tint range of an image or low transparency level without changing tonalities.
                                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                I mean a new file.

                                1 person found this helpful
                                • 13. Re: Low tint range of an image or low transparency level without changing tonalities.
                                  aparanae Level 1

                                  Ok. Then thank you for your help and your time

                                  • 14. Re: Low tint range of an image or low transparency level without changing tonalities.
                                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                    And I'd probably start by making a copy of the one you have. Since this is a background, I presume, rather than lowering the opacity you can use tints of your colors, which might work better. You only need transparency if you want the object to allow something behind to show through or interact. If it isn't red enough, adjust the color mix or the tint.

                                     

                                    Another possibilty you can try is to use the current image at 100% in ID, then add a [Paper] filled frame above it and lower the opacity of that frame to let the image show through, but I suspect you'll see the same colors you see now.

                                    • 15. Re: Low tint range of an image or low transparency level without changing tonalities.
                                      aparanae Level 1

                                      Peter Spier wrote:

                                       

                                      And I'd probably start by making a copy of the one you have. Since this is a background, I presume, rather than lowering the opacity you can use tints of your colors, which might work better. You only need transparency if you want the object to allow something behind to show through or interact. If it isn't red enough, adjust the color mix or the tint.

                                       

                                      Thanks, I didn't know I can make tints from my colors in Illustrator. This will be very useful in future. I just googled it and found out how. However I get the same tonalities with lower tints and it somehow alterates the result of the blending modes I'm using in the composition. I think I will just play around with other tones of red for this watermarking-version file and check it on the Overprint Preview until I get what I want.

                                       

                                       

                                      Peter Spier wrote:

                                       

                                      Another possibilty you can try is to use the current image at 100% in ID, then add a [Paper] filled frame above it and lower the opacity of that frame to let the image show through, but I suspect you'll see the same colors you see now.

                                       

                                      That's right, it looks the same.

                                       

                                      Thank you again for your help!

                                      • 16. Re: Low tint range of an image or low transparency level without changing tonalities.
                                        Danny Whitehead. Level 4

                                        If your colour management is set up right, I expect the more accurate preview is the one that you don't like the appearance of. In which case, you'll have to adjust the values manually rather than using tints or opacity.

                                         

                                        Is the red a spot colour by any chance? I ask because the appearance of spot colours can be greatly affected by Overprint Preview (they're more accurate with it switched on). If it is a spot colour, and is actually going to be printed using spot inks (as is common for letterheads), then there's not much you can do to change the hue of the tints.

                                         

                                        Also, letterheads are usually printed on an uncoated paper, so if you're in Europe, 'Uncoated FOGRA29' might be a more appropriate CMYK space for this job.

                                        • 17. Re: Low tint range of an image or low transparency level without changing tonalities.
                                          aparanae Level 1

                                          Danny Whitehead. wrote:

                                           

                                          If your colour management is set up right, I expect the more accurate preview is the one that you don't like the appearance of. In which case, you'll have to adjust the values manually rather than using tints or opacity.

                                           

                                          The problem is that I am not that advanced in this technical/printing stuff, the things I've done so far are mostly illustrations that never got printed on paper and if they got printed, either I didn't have that problem or it wasn't that important. So I don't know exactly how I should check if my color management is set right, and which values you are talking about. Sorry.

                                           

                                           

                                          Danny Whitehead. wrote:

                                           

                                          Is the red a spot colour by any chance? I ask because the appearance of spot colours can be greatly affected by Overprint Preview (they're more accurate with it switched on). If it is a spot colour, and is actually going to be printed using spot inks (as is common for letterheads), then there's not much you can do to change the hue of the tints.

                                           

                                          No, it is a gradient of two process colors.

                                           

                                           

                                          Danny Whitehead. wrote:

                                           

                                          Also, letterheads are usually printed on an uncoated paper, so if you're in Europe, 'Uncoated FOGRA29' might be a more appropriate CMYK space for this job.

                                           

                                          Thanks for the extra info, I had no idea.

                                          • 18. Re: Low tint range of an image or low transparency level without changing tonalities.
                                            Danny Whitehead. Level 4

                                            Ideally, to get your colour management set right for the job, you'd ask your printer which CMYK profile they recommend (or they might even supply a custom one), and set that as your CMYK Working Space. Also, you'd calibrate your monitor. If these things aren't an option, and you're in Europe, 'Uncoated FOGRA29' is probably your best bet.

                                             

                                            The values I'm talking about are the colour values used in the 'watermark' (be they CMYK or RGB). If you aren't happy with the mathematically correct results you get by making tints or reducing the opacities of the original solid colours, you can create your own colours that you are happy with.