11 Replies Latest reply on Nov 26, 2013 4:36 PM by Peter Spier

    Gutters disappear in text box

    casinclaire Level 1

      I am using an InDesign magazine layout template I've used many times, with no problems. I have object styles set up for 1, 2 and 3 column text boxes, with gutters built into the latter two. In past, I have applied these object styles and all was well. Tonight -- as it would happen, under deadline! -- my columns come in without gutters, and the text overlaps where the gutters should be. I have Googled for an answer and can't find one anywhere. Anyone out there who can help me soonest? Thanks much! -- csinclaire

        • 1. Re: Gutters disappear in text box
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          Really need a screen shot, but two possibilities are you've superimposed a single-column frame on two columns (or change the column count on a previously two-column frame), or the pragraph style is set to span columns.

          • 2. Re: Gutters disappear in text box
            casinclaire Level 1

            Hi, Peter.


            Thanks for the reply. I've inserted an image of what is happening.


            What I've noticed, since posting the question, is that although the Object Style text frame option is set up for three (or in some cases, two) columns with a 1-pica gutter, the gutter setting is actually not being honored by InD, on the tool bar at the top of the window. (See 2nd screen shot.)


            I've never had this happen before, and I've been using InD since v2. (Of course, span-columns wasn't available then, but I don't think that has anything to do with this; I do know how to use them, of course, but also, I did check on that, LOL.)


            The weird thing is, I've recreated this object style AND the 2-col object style both, this evening, and they keep reverting to this problem -- or as I said, I don't think it is actually the object style, but the program itself is just apparently not honoring the gutter setting in the object style.


            This is the same template I've used for the last couple versions of the magazine I've been doing twice a year for 20 years -- having just last January switched over to the Creative Cloud and CS6 -- and I also produced a 300-page 4-color anniversary book for this same client. Intensive work, all of it. Never a problem like this or a balk from the system, until the last couple days. At first I thought it was just low RAM, so I rebooted, but it made no diff.


            Just a little bit mystifying! I can manually overcome by going up to the tool bar (I am pretty sure that isn't what it is called, but I'm blanking right now -- maybe task bar?) and just manually setting my gutter to 1 pica. But why that won't "take" from the object style is a mystery and a bit annoying. 3-col text box.JPG


            gutter shot.JPG

            • 3. Re: Gutters disappear in text box
              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

              It does look to me like a problem in span columns. Can you post a link to a smaple document showing this problem?


              What version of ID are you using, by the way, is it patced to the latest release, and which OS?


              Also what is the history of this file? Was it creted in this verison, or another?

              • 4. Re: Gutters disappear in text box
                casinclaire Level 1



                I've uploaded a file at this link:  http://adobe.ly/194kXvN  -- You should be able to download into InDesign.


                To answer your questions re the file:


                • I have been using this template in InDesign CS5.5 (7.5.3 update) and, since January 2013, in CS6.
                • I don't know if my version of InD is patched to the latest release, but I assume so, since I use Creative Cloud and update as suggested (or whatever is automatic).
                • Re my template, I have not made ANY changes to the 2- or 3-column object styles, nor to any other parameters (paragraph styles, span column settings, etc.) in the file in about a year, and especially not since the lat time I used it, which was in July this year.
                • In July, I had no problems at all. Everything worked normally. After the project was over, the file lay dormant until I opened it this week, and the problem was suddenly just THERE.
                • I'm using Windows 7.


                Also, just fyi, I only just yesterday learned about InDesign CS, so downloaded that and opened the parent file (from which I've created the two-pager I've uploaded for you) in that, and had the same problem.


                I've looked at all the settings, and though I could be missing something, I can't for the life of me figure out what it is. I've checked the column spans in all paragraph styles, etc.


                But the real mystery is, why did it just suddenly blow up when all I did was let the template sit for a few months...I changed NOTHING from the time I used it in July to the time I opened it this week. Whatever has happened seemed to have happened all by itself. It's like something "slipped" somewhere, either in a setting or in the program. But nothing that I've done, or I'd know how to fix it. All I did was apply the object style, the first time I needed it for my current project, and it just didn't work.


                But as I mentioned in my earlier post, the object style appears to be set up correctly (unless something "slipped," as seems could be the case), and it is as if InDesign itself just isn't paying attention to the object style settings. But that doesn't make sense, either, because in the bar across the top of the page, you can see that InDesign honored the spec to have THREE columns -- but it ignored the gutter setting.  Why would it pay attention to only part of the object style specs?


                Any further thoughts would really be appreciated. I have currently to keep adjusting my gutters manually, which renders moot a good part of my reason for using the object style to start with.


                Thanks in advance for any help or ideas!  (Hope the link works okay. I haven't uploaded a document to the Creative Cloud before, for someone else to be able to grab. You may have to type the link in rather than click on it ... ??)



                • 5. Re: Gutters disappear in text box
                  Salah Fadlabi Level 5

                  I download the file, and when i open Text Frame Option and change the gutter size every thing go OK.



                  • 6. Re: Gutters disappear in text box
                    casinclaire Level 1

                    Thanks, Salah.  But one shouldn't have to do that, I don't think, if one is applying an object style. The object style already has the text frame options set up (if you look at my object style for 2-col or 3-col, you will see that I have a 1-pica gutter already set up under the Text Frame Options) and the style itself should apply all those settings at one time for me; otherwise what is the point of using the object style? (That is, I shouldn't have to adjust the gutter, or the text frame options, independently if I'm using the object style; the style should take care of it all.)


                    Further, as I mentioned, this is a problem that has just "appeared" out of nowhere. The object styles all worked fine up till now, through several issues -- at least three or four -- of the magazine I use this template for; but now -- suddenly, without my having altered anything -- it seems that somehow, and for some unknown reason, the program itself isn't honoring the settings in the object styles, or at least not entirely, as it will create three columns, per the object style, but, conversely, completely ignores the gutter settings.



                    • 7. Re: Gutters disappear in text box
                      Mary Posner Level 3

                      Have you tried exporting the document out as IDML? It's possible that it picked up some minor corruption somewhere along the way, and that'll usually clear it out. It's worth a try, anyway.

                      • 8. Re: Gutters disappear in text box
                        casinclaire Level 1

                        Hi, Mary.  I tried this but it didn't really do the trick for this problem, but I am still grateful you mentioned that this is a good technique for sometimes trying to uncorrupt a corrupted file.


                        For all who are interested, I think I have just figured out what the problem has been ... at least it seems to have been, and it's holding steady so far.  Here is what I've just now figured out.


                        I was i my document, trying out Mary's IDML-export idea, and I was placing a couple new frames of text for that purpose, when I noticed, on my Object Styles palette, the text frame default was set to "None." I also noticed that it had a "+" sign, such as you see when styles are altered from their original set-up. I alt-clicked on it to see if I could clear that override back to the style's default and the "+" did go away. However, I still had no idea what the default settings of that "none" style actually were -- but of course, I assumed "none," just like its name, and it is true, nothing changed in the text inside the text frame.


                        Okay, so there is a pencil icon at the far right of that style name, with a line through it, and when you click on THAT, you get a message saying that the "None" style cannot be edited or deleted. I thought, well, that means, if this has been set as my default text frame, it is one I did not set up, one whose parameters are out of my reach, and really, shouldn't I have some control? So I switched the default to be the "Basic Text Frame" instead -- and which, in past, it has always been, so I still don't know how it got switched to the "None" style.


                        But anyway, ever since I made the Basic Text Frame -- set up as 1 col and 1 pica gutter (which is moot with 1 col anyway) -- as my default, and I draw a new text frame with my loaded text cursor, then apply my Object Style of 2- or 3-columns, the gutter comes in just fine.


                        So, if all this continues to pan out, it looks like the problem was that the default text frame under Object Styles needed to be set to Basic Text Frame and it was set to None. Go figure.


                        Thanks everyone for all your input. I learned some stuff, and I fervently hope this problem is now solved. I'll post again if it persists, but I'm hopeful! Thanks so much, everyone. Happy Thanksgiving.



                        • 9. Re: Gutters disappear in text box
                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                          I think the file is corrupt. When you check the object style it has a local override on the gutter width, and you cannot get the override to clear without changing the object style to something else, then back again.


                          I checked the file history, and there is evidence that file crashed in CS5 (which never had any patches applied) back in July of 2011. That alone could be the source of corruption, but it was also directly converted from that version to CS6. Direct conversions are not always problematic, but we see enough of them that have problems that don't develop until editing has been underway for some time that I now as a matter of course export all files to be converted from the original to .idml and convert that instead of the .indd, and I recommend others do the same.


                          In additiin to the crash in CS5, the file has crash another half-dozen or so times in CS6. That also can't possibly have helped it.


                          And no, you are not up to date. Patches are not automatically applied, even through CC. You need to install the 8.0.2 update.

                          • 10. Re: Gutters disappear in text box
                            casinclaire Level 1

                            Thanks so much for all this info. How do I go about getting the updates? And is the update you refer to for CC or CS6?


                            Re the crashes ... I guess I thought InDesign itself closed down, not that there was a problem with the file. I've found it is not uncommon for all the Adobe programs to crash. But I suppose it could have been the document, not the program, so that would account for problems piling up in the background of the template.


                            This fix that I figured out about having the Basic Text Frame set as the default before I draw a new frame with my loaded text template is working out pretty well, just fyi.


                            Thanks for this and all info. If you can direct me to the updates -- although I checked this this afternoon and the list read that all were updated, but maybe they aren't -- I'd appreciate it. Or maybe it is just as simple as redownloading the program from the Cloud??



                            • 11. Re: Gutters disappear in text box
                              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                              Help > Updates... is the easiest path to installing the patch.


                              It doesn't really matter if the crash was in the program unrealted to the file, or if file problem brough down the program. The potential for damage is the same. If you have frequent crashes (and they are spread across multiple files) there is a problem you need to address someplace. ID is about the most stable program you'll find and it almost never crashes unless there is a problem in the file or there is some sort of problem with a font, plugin, or conflict with other software running on your system. If I see more than one crash a year, other than files I receive from other users that are known to crash before I see them, I would be very surprised.


                              I'm glad you are having some success now with this file, but being a pragmatist I would probably abandon it. I'd creat a new file the same size, then go through the old file spread by spread, Select All, copy, then Paste In Place (and enable Paste Remembers Layers first inthe Layers panel flyout menu) in thenew document, then save with a new name and continue working.