18 Replies Latest reply on Aug 10, 2006 6:47 PM by Newsgroup_User

    Fireworks Layout Question

    La Bestia Level 1
      Ok I am using Fireworks for a class of mine and I need a little help. When I slice the layout where I want to insert text I can choose either image or HTML. Now, if I chose HTML can I label that slice in the "edit HTML button" <div id=content1>content goes here</div> or does it not allow divs in there? Anyone have any luck with this???
        • 1. Re: Fireworks Layout Question
          Level 7
          La Bestia wrote:
          > Ok I am using Fireworks for a class of mine and I need a little help. When I
          > slice the layout where I want to insert text I can choose either image or HTML.
          > Now, if I chose HTML can I label that slice in the "edit HTML button" <div
          > id=content1>content goes here</div> or does it not allow divs in there? Anyone
          > have any luck with this???
          >

          Hi

          Just set this as an html slice then do the true editing in DW. Warning,
          though; if you are using Fireworks html, it will export a table layout
          and the html text you place inside that cell within Dreamweaver could
          very likely break the layout.

          Common practice is to do the design in FW, slice the images as needed,
          then build your layout within DW, rather than relying on the code
          generated by FW.

          HTH

          --
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          • 2. Re: Fireworks Layout Question
            La Bestia Level 1
            Hey Jim!
            Thanks for the response I will try this and repost and let you know how it worked.,
            • 3. Re: Fireworks Layout Question
              Level 7
              La Bestia wrote:
              > Hey Jim!
              > Thanks for the response I will try this and repost and let you know how it worked.,

              I look forward to seeing how you faired. :-)

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              • 4. Re: Fireworks Layout Question
                La Bestia Level 1
                Hey again Jim!

                I tried what you suggested and it worked as planned. Some of my text once inserted into the <td> tag that fireworks created is expanding my layout. This is probably just specifying the width and height of that <td width="300px" height="150px">text</td>Can you even specify a specific size to a td? Hmmm.. I am just thinking of sticking on iFrame in this slice here and forget about the problems of the <td>... Any ideas??
                • 5. Re: Fireworks Layout Question
                  Level 7
                  La Bestia wrote:
                  > Hey again Jim!
                  >
                  > I tried what you suggested and it worked as planned. Some of my text once
                  > inserted into the <td> tag that fireworks created is expanding my layout. This
                  > is probably just specifying the width and height of that <td width="300px"
                  > height="150px">text</td>Can you even specify a specific size to a td? Hmmm.. I
                  > am just thinking of sticking on iFrame in this slice here and forget about the
                  > problems of the <td>... Any ideas??
                  >

                  Table heights and cell heights should not be specified. Generally, a
                  table should be left to expand or contract vertically to fit the content.

                  I guess an Iframe would get around the problem of of the table cell
                  expanding, but you will also have to contend with scrollbars, which may
                  not be visually pleasing.

                  It is ideal to just use FW for slicing and optimizing and then build
                  your page within Dreamweaver. You will find you have more flexibility.
                  Use CSS to control the text display.

                  HTH!

                  --
                  Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
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                  • 6. Re: Fireworks Layout Question
                    La Bestia Level 1
                    Great! I wish you were teaching my class instead my teacher told me to just type in the text I wanted within Fireworks. lol Then I asked him but how will be able to update any information if I wanted to? Hmm.. good question he says lol. My three column layout gets broken once I start typing too much in the cell. I will try to use the padding attribute in css to correct this.. Thanks for the help Jim!
                    • 7. Re: Fireworks Layout Question
                      Level 7
                      La Bestia wrote:
                      > Great! I wish you were teaching my class instead my teacher told me to just
                      > type in the text I wanted within Fireworks. lol Then I asked him but how will
                      > be able to update any information if I wanted to? Hmm.. good question he says
                      > lol. My three column layout gets broken once I start typing too much in the
                      > cell. I will try to use the padding attribute in css to correct this.. Thanks
                      > for the help Jim!
                      >

                      I'm glad I was able to help. Keep in mind that FW is a graphics
                      application, and while it can do some html (people have built web pages
                      and <ugh> web sites in it), you should really be building your final
                      pages in a true web editor.

                      The only time I use FW html generated pages is for client mock-ups. It
                      allows me to build and show quickly, thus getting that much needed
                      client sign off. :-)

                      --
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                      • 8. Re: Fireworks Layout Question
                        La Bestia Level 1
                        Great advise with the client side of things. I will remember that when I get to that point in my career. I basically just laid out the images where I wanted them, sliced the menu bar, and sliced the header where my flash header is going to go and even with that Fireworks generated all this uneccessary code. You were right! I will send a link to my site when done with it. But go easy on me I am still in school lol. Thanks again Jim!
                        • 9. Re: Fireworks Layout Question
                          Level 7
                          La Bestia wrote:
                          > Great advise with the client side of things. I will remember that when I get to
                          > that point in my career. I basically just laid out the images where I wanted
                          > them, sliced the menu bar, and sliced the header where my flash header is going
                          > to go and even with that Fireworks generated all this uneccessary code. You
                          > were right! I will send a link to my site when done with it. But go easy on me
                          > I am still in school lol. Thanks again Jim!

                          Well, if you stuck the images any old place, with no consideration for
                          how you would slice the layout, Fireworks would generate a lot of code.
                          I wouldn't call it unnecessary, however. It might have been made
                          necessary by your layout.



                          --
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                          --------------------------------------------------------------
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                          • 10. Re: Fireworks Layout Question
                            Level 7
                            Bear in mind that when FW creates its HTML it makes a fatal assumption -

                            * every page in the site will have exactly the same shape as the shape of
                            the image you are slicing.

                            Since each page in your site may not have the same amount of content, and
                            will therefore change its shape, you will likely see unexpected things
                            happen to your FW-generated layout as a result. Such experiences probably
                            account for 20% of the posts here and on the DW forum.

                            You are now caught in a tautology. If you know enough HTML to understand
                            how to make a page stable, then you can set up FW to slice in a way that
                            will produce relatively 'good' HTML. But if you know enough HTML to do
                            that, then you wouldn't be using FW to write it for you in the first place.
                            See what I mean?

                            The real bottom line is this: if you are serious about building web pages,
                            you will need to get busy learning HTML so that you can work yourself out of
                            these dilemmas. There are many more that await you otherwise.

                            --
                            Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                            Adobe Community Expert
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                            "Linda R **Adobe Community Expert**" <lightly@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
                            news:ebcpd0$ddo$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                            > La Bestia wrote:
                            >> Great advise with the client side of things. I will remember that when I
                            >> get to that point in my career. I basically just laid out the images
                            >> where I wanted them, sliced the menu bar, and sliced the header where my
                            >> flash header is going to go and even with that Fireworks generated all
                            >> this uneccessary code. You were right! I will send a link to my site when
                            >> done with it. But go easy on me I am still in school lol. Thanks again
                            >> Jim!
                            >
                            > Well, if you stuck the images any old place, with no consideration for how
                            > you would slice the layout, Fireworks would generate a lot of code. I
                            > wouldn't call it unnecessary, however. It might have been made necessary
                            > by your layout.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --
                            > Linda Rathgeber [PVII] **Adobe Community Expert-Fireworks**
                            > --------------------------------------------------------------
                            > http://www.projectseven.com
                            > Fireworks Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven.com/fireworks/
                            > CSS Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven.com/css/
                            > Design Aid Kits: http://www.webdevbiz.com/pwf/index.cfm
                            > --------------------------------------------------------------


                            • 11. Re: Fireworks Layout Question
                              La Bestia Level 1
                              I have no issues with HTML/XHTML at all. In fact when I layout my tableless designs in BBedit (which is my preferred method and software) with CSS I feel 100% more comfortable than this Fireworks method. But, as I previously stated my professor which I can say does not know much about what goes on in the industry. He believes designing with Fireworks is the place to be. I mean his text on his site all consists of images. I can't say to the guy (who is teaching a Fireworks+Dreamweaver class) that his method sucks. Unless, I plan to fail his class that is. I DO NOT use Dreamweaver nor do I plan to. I use MS Visual Studio 2005 at work because we're a MS shop but if I need HTML help I would rather refer to my O'reilly cookbook than the autocomplete options in these programs.
                              • 12. Re: Fireworks Layout Question
                                Level 7
                                You can feel free to tell your professor that at least one person here
                                thinks he should lose tenure for such moronic and retrograde teaching.

                                --
                                Murray --- ICQ 71997575
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                                "La Bestia" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                news:ebd92s$3ig$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                >I have no issues with HTML/XHTML at all. In fact when I layout my tableless
                                > designs in BBedit (which is my preferred method and software) with CSS I
                                > feel
                                > 100% more comfortable than this Fireworks method. But, as I previously
                                > stated
                                > my professor which I can say does not know much about what goes on in the
                                > industry. He believes designing with Fireworks is the place to be. I mean
                                > his
                                > text on his site all consists of images. I can't say to the guy (who is
                                > teaching a Fireworks+Dreamweaver class) that his method sucks. Unless, I
                                > plan
                                > to fail his class that is. I DO NOT use Dreamweaver nor do I plan to. I
                                > use MS
                                > Visual Studio 2005 at work because we're a MS shop but if I need HTML help
                                > I
                                > would rather refer to my O'reilly cookbook than the autocomplete options
                                > in
                                > these programs.
                                >


                                • 13. Re: Fireworks Layout Question
                                  Level 7
                                  Murray *ACE* wrote:
                                  > he should lose tenure for such moronic and retrograde teaching.

                                  ... and that's being polite... ;-)

                                  --
                                  St�phane Bergeron
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                                  • 14. Re: Fireworks Layout Question
                                    La Bestia Level 1
                                    I thought I was alone on this one. I have no clue on how to use Fireworks but thanks to Jim he has brought me one step closer to finishing this class. What a nightmare. I use Photoshop/Imageready for optimizing my graphics and Illustrator for logo design (which I am horrible at by the way). So when this class is over I will advise this professor designing a whole website in Fireworks or Photoshop does not fall under web standards that I used to following now with CSS + XHTML. Awesome help from all of you.
                                    • 15. Re: Fireworks Layout Question
                                      Level 7
                                      Good luck. Get the grade first and then fire him.

                                      --
                                      Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                      Adobe Community Expert
                                      (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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                                      "La Bestia" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                      news:ebebsn$cl4$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                      >I thought I was alone on this one. I have no clue on how to use Fireworks
                                      >but
                                      > thanks to Jim he has brought me one step closer to finishing this class.
                                      > What a
                                      > nightmare. I use Photoshop/Imageready for optimizing my graphics and
                                      > Illustrator for logo design (which I am horrible at by the way). So when
                                      > this
                                      > class is over I will advise this professor designing a whole website in
                                      > Fireworks or Photoshop does not fall under web standards that I used to
                                      > following now with CSS + XHTML. Awesome help from all of you.
                                      >


                                      • 16. Re: Fireworks Layout Question
                                        Level 7
                                        And this guy is your professor? *head-shaking*

                                        As an FYI, you can work entirely in code view with DW.

                                        --
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                                        La Bestia wrote:
                                        > I have no issues with HTML/XHTML at all. In fact when I layout my tableless
                                        > designs in BBedit (which is my preferred method and software) with CSS I feel
                                        > 100% more comfortable than this Fireworks method. But, as I previously stated
                                        > my professor which I can say does not know much about what goes on in the
                                        > industry. He believes designing with Fireworks is the place to be. I mean his
                                        > text on his site all consists of images. I can't say to the guy (who is
                                        > teaching a Fireworks+Dreamweaver class) that his method sucks. Unless, I plan
                                        > to fail his class that is. I DO NOT use Dreamweaver nor do I plan to. I use MS
                                        > Visual Studio 2005 at work because we're a MS shop but if I need HTML help I
                                        > would rather refer to my O'reilly cookbook than the autocomplete options in
                                        > these programs.
                                        >
                                        • 17. Re: Fireworks Layout Question
                                          Level 7
                                          Murray *ACE* wrote:
                                          > You can feel free to tell your professor that at least one person here
                                          > thinks he should lose tenure for such moronic and retrograde teaching.
                                          >
                                          Make that two (coming from another professor)

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                                          • 18. Re: Fireworks Layout Question
                                            Level 7
                                            Murray *ACE* wrote:
                                            > Good luck. Get the grade first and then fire him.
                                            >
                                            Yep agreed!

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