14 Replies Latest reply on Dec 20, 2013 8:51 AM by Steve Werner

    Indesign CC export to .idml not reliable

    march67 Level 1

      I just sent a large financial document to print. Its 132 pages.

      The printer (like every printer I work with) has not purchased CC yet and apparently refuses to.

      No prob - Ill just save as an .idml so they can open it in CS6, right?

      WRONG!     DEAD WRONG!

       

      Turns out that when I save as .idml and its opened in CS6, random acts of weirdness occur.

      Namely, lines applied to Indesign Table Cells can disappear. That's right. In a 132 page FINANCIAL document, the client is looking at a proof and asking why the lines are not in some places. Im lucky it was caught (by the client) before going to print.

       

      I had no idea what the problem was because my files were fine. But I exported as .idml and opened it up in CS6 and... Lo and Behold, the lines were missing again in the exact same areas.

       

      In the past I have just exported to .idml and sent to print, but I cannot have any faith in that process anymore. I encourage any and all to export to .idml, then open it up in CS6 and review every last line, break, color, etc. THEN send the CS6 file to the printer.

       

      Or better yet, maybe dont use CC at all, which is what Im contemplating.

        • 1. Re: Indesign CC export to .idml not reliable
          Steve Werner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Saving to IDML because the printer is not willing to have the latest version of InDesign is guaranteed to be a poor workflow.

           

          IDML cannot guarantee the same line breaks and features in an earlier version. It never has, and never will.

           

          Your printer should accept a PDF created from InDesign CC which will be letter perfect and get you exactly what you want.

          • 2. Re: Indesign CC export to .idml not reliable
            march67 Level 1

            Line breaks I can sort of understand, but having a freaking UNDERLINE on a chart disappear?

            I have always been able to save Indesign files down to previous versions in the past and had no issues (since I first started using Indesign). All the printers I work with are being very vocal about their opposition to IndesignCCs "forever payments" scheme so I see this as beign an issue in the future.

             

            This is a financial document - after it is sent for blueline they almost ALWAYS have last minute numbers changes from the bean counters which are made at the print shop and some even made after it goes on press. Sending PDFs is out of the question.

             

            Also, being on several other conversations with people upset about CC and wondering what happens if they dont want to pay every month  - the answer from Adobe has always been - dont worry, you can still have access to your files by just exporting to .idml then you can use your older owned software. What you are saying contradicts that.

            • 3. Re: Indesign CC export to .idml not reliable
              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

              If you have a cloud subscription you can download and install CS6 as well.

               

              That's what you should be using for files that go to other users who are on CS6.

              • 4. Re: Indesign CC export to .idml not reliable
                Steve Werner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                There could be corruption in the file. Have you tried to open the IDML file in InDesign CC?

                 

                The printer is doing you no favors by not having at least one version of InDesign CC. That would not cost them much money. I put the responsibility of them for problems. They need to serve their customers if they're expecting to make last minute changes for you.

                • 5. Re: Indesign CC export to .idml not reliable
                  march67 Level 1

                  So, I paid for a program I shouldnt use. Since pretty much no one is on CC.

                  • 6. Re: Indesign CC export to .idml not reliable
                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                    It was your decision to subscribe. You should be thankful that your subscription also includes CS6 for compatibility with other users who have not elected to subscribe.

                    • 7. Re: Indesign CC export to .idml not reliable
                      march67 Level 1

                      Yes, when I open the .idml file back in CC the lines are gone - the problem is happening when it is exported as .idml. Which is why I am making the claim that it is unreliable.

                       

                      I Completely agree about the printer. This is not a printer I would have selected - the client has a relationship with them. That being said, there is not one printer that I work with in all of San Diego that uses CC yet. And these are reputable, long-standing, decades old - and even century old printers, but they dont seem to like the new business model. Cant say I blame them. I have had more down days than up days with CC. Very buggy. I have had more hours on the phone with India than I care to experience in a lifetime since getting CC.

                       

                      My biggest problem now is: Do I migrate all the work I WAS able to get done in CC back to CS6 and cut my losses, or ride it out. I have been riding it out in the hopes that an "update" will appear that magically fixes my problems since I know this is the way of the future (perpetual payments) - But thats a topic for another thread.

                      • 8. Re: Indesign CC export to .idml not reliable
                        march67 Level 1

                        I should be "LUCKY" that the freakin program I am paying for comes with the old program I already owned?

                        What kind of shill are you?

                        I was under the impression I was paying for an UPGRADE. Not the ability to use what I already owned.

                        • 9. Re: Indesign CC export to .idml not reliable
                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                          I'm not a shill at all. I see absolutely nothing in CC that would justify subscribing for a print workflow. And I know enough not to send new files to people with old versions. I have clinets who still need CS3 files, and much as I dislike using it, for them I still work in CS3. It's the ONLY reliable way to exchange files.

                          • 10. Re: Indesign CC export to .idml not reliable
                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                            And for what it's worth, if I were a printer, especially a small one, giventhe current economics of the printing business, I'd need to be seeing dozens of CC files a week to justify investing in a subscription. PDF is a much better way to go. Your problem is that you need to send native files becasue your client wants to do last minute changes at the printer (a bad workflow) and you neglected to find out what the printer can accept.

                            • 11. Re: Indesign CC export to .idml not reliable
                              march67 Level 1

                              My client needs to make last minute changes, so whether thats a "bad worklflow" or not isnt going to change my reality. You can slap a label on it all you want - I dont have much choice in the matter. I have been doing this for over 24 years back with waxing up type galleys, then Aldus Pagemaker, then Adobe Pagemaker, then Quark, then  Indesign. I have used ever version of Indesign and I have never had a problem with backsaving before.

                               

                              We send out between 20 and 30 print jobs every week, week after week, year after year - to all print vendors (digital, offset, web), so whether our "workflow" is labeled by someone as "bad" really gives me a good chuckle.

                               

                              I guess I just trusted the company too much. I have had ALL version and been happy for years working the same way successfully with no problems. An upgrage was an upgrade and I went along for the ride. That trust has definitely been broken.

                              • 12. Re: Indesign CC export to .idml not reliable
                                BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                Backsaving has never been a great idea for anything other than moving

                                content. For printing? It's pretty dangerous. You have CS6 and that's what

                                you should have used. I don't care if you've been doing this for 24 years or

                                240 years. The first thing you do when working with a new printer is pick up

                                the phone.

                                • 13. Re: Indesign CC export to .idml not reliable
                                  march67 Level 1

                                  I must thank you Bobby. Friday is our donut and pastry morning and when I came in and saw your ridiculous post, I brought the entire team in to get a good laugh.

                                   

                                  Im not sure if you use Indesign in a professional capacity, or even work with printers or not, (from your comments and assumptions I would say no), but ever since there has been a way to backsave, it is exactly what has been done when sending files to print. Printers are notorious late adopters of new versions (for good reason). For years and years EVERY SINGLE printer we work with - whether its hear in San Diego, printers in New York, the Mid-West or even in China - every time we get a new version of the software and send it to print we have been asked to backsave the file. Hell, some print shops are TWO versions back! This is standard procedure and has been for over a decade. Sorry if you dont know this, but that is reality.

                                   

                                  Also, your assumptions show a lack of understanding of a modern design studio. See, when you have governmental agencies, multi-national energy company's, Casinos with over 240 locations world wide, Hospitals, biotech companies, etc etc as clients, it is 8 times out of 10 the CLIENT who choses the printer - like I mentioned above. Additionally, (since apparently you are not aware of this), the client often does not make their final decision  on which printer to select until WELL AFTER the project is underway. In this particular case we found out 3 days before it was supposed to go to print what printer it was. So your naive "the first thing you do when working with a new printer is pick up the phone" comment is truly uneducated and is very telling about your experience in the field.

                                   

                                  Futhermore, anytime I come across a printer that requests PDFs (its extremely rare - we usually work with professional high-end printers with actual pre-press departments, not Mickey Mouse outfits that want me to do their prepress for them) - The first thing I do is call my client and ask them "you got a good price on printing didnt you." Of course they did because their printer wants ME to prep their files for them - so I need to go back to the client and raise my rates. Heck, I can do pre-press, I used to use a stat camera creating chokes and traps back in the day - then did the same with Illustrator - but that is not the role of the modern design studio, its the PRINTES responsibility. All respectable professional print shop wants to have control of the files so they can make adjustments for their presses and even humidity - i.e. Native Files.

                                   

                                  Now, I originally made this post so that other professionals would be aware of the flaw in backsaving - a flaw that DID NOT EXIST BEFORE. I know this from years of experience. You comment that you dont care if I have been doing this for 240 years... but im still wrong,  is the height of arrogance. I mean, do you even hear yoursel?

                                   

                                  I was under the impression that this was the place that real design professionals discussed Indesign. Apparently its the place for people to rack up 28 thousand comments posting uneducated drivel.

                                  • 14. Re: Indesign CC export to .idml not reliable
                                    Steve Werner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    I'm locking this discussion as it seems to have run its course.